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#111 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 453 weeks ago

polluxlm wrote:

Even a cynic like me is rooting for him.

Ah, now I get it. You think that if EVEN a cynic like you supports him, other independents surely must too... of course, it might just as well be the case that it takes a very special kind of cynic to support him, no?

#112 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 453 weeks ago

Smoking Guns wrote:

Remember, Chris Hayes did a male only poll a few weeks back and Trump was up 80-20. The ONLY reason this is close is the women vote. But I think the women vote is skewed.

Source? Methodology?

Trump does not have the support of a silent majority, it is the exact opposite: it is a very vocal minority that props up his candidacy. That's why he draws huge crowds at his rallies but Hillary is miles ahead of him in the polls. This isn't surprising either: all statistics seem to support the idea that the US is rapidly becoming more progressive and more socially liberal. Both as far as party affiliation is concerned, as well as support for individual policies there are strong indications that the majority of the country is just as leftist as Canada or even Europe: Abortion, same-sex marriage, legalization of marijuana, rapid rise of irreligion, increased regulatory oversight, ... to name just a few issues where left-wing policies seem to have opened up an unrecoverable lead over their right-wing counterparts.

Trump's candidacy is a symptom of this, it represents the last convulsions of a way of thinking (sexist, isolationist, racist, ...), belief system, way of life, whatever... that is very clearly on its way out. As every new generation is exposed to an increasingly pluralistic society, conservatism will naturally fall to the wayside.

This is currently more true for national policy than it is for foreign policy, since there's still a lot of fear in the populace's hearts left over from the cold war era and all the fear mongering that was done to prop up the economy by stoking the war-machines, but one will follow the other eventually.

This is a good article on the subject (although it is too complimentary towards Obama in my opinion, I would say his presidency is a result of that process, not an instigator or accelerant): http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc … ft/419112/

#113 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 454 weeks ago

Smoking Guns wrote:

The media is in the tank for HRC. 80% of the media describes themselves as a democrat.  It is very obvious that outside of Fox that every other news outlet is openly campaigning against Trump. This false War on Women propaganda is such load of horseshit. I guess since the blacks aren't motivated to vote for Hillary they need to make it a gender issue.

Stop whining about the media man, you're a big boy, you can make up your own mind... not just follow someone else's opinion who just happens to say things that superficially sound good to you, by the way. Look stuff up, investigate, read the numbers. Trump would be a disaster for your country as well as the rest of the world, and if you forget about the so-called media bias and look into his policies for yourself, you'd realize that. No thoughts on the video? Still think he's fighting for the little guy?

Smoking Guns wrote:

The US is becoming a service industry like Britain and much of Europe has begun. When you stop making shit it is hard to survive.  We need industry back in the US. It lifts the lower class.

That's an interesting supposition, but where do you get that idea? I don't have the numbers, but my hunch would be that most unskilled labor (aka the lower class) can be found in the service industry, you know: hairdressers, burger flippers, valets, cashiers, greeters, ...


Smoking Guns wrote:

Do you think I "like Trump"?  It isn't about that.
It is about the Supreme Court to me now mainly. If Clinton wins, it will be some left wing fucking court for a minimum 50 fucking years and the constitution will be assfucked by the time it is over. Clinton won't affect me, but my kids and grandchildren. Need balance on the court. With her it will be a super majority left wing.

I think you're fighting against windmills on that one. Yes, it'll be a more progressive supreme court if/when Hillary is in office, but why is that a bad thing? Which conservative decisions has SCOTUS made that actually panned out well in the past? Citizens United? Shelby v. Holder? Greece v. Galloway? Burwell v. Hobby Lobby? Half of those have increased corruption and bribery in the US, and the other half are to pander to religious wackjobs... I don't think there's been a single conservative SCOTUS decision that actually had a positive impact in the past 10 years...

#114 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 454 weeks ago

Let's move away from the offensive and outmoded language for a minute, he's a 70 year old man, his view of the world and male/female relationships is bound to be outdated. That's not an excuse, but no one should be surprised by it and it's only marginally interesting.

The below is a very simple, very understandable explanation of the Clinton and Trump tax plans. It should give every middle class US citizen that supports Trump pause. It's also a very good example of how monumentally stupid his policies actually are (you know, when you can actually pin him down on a given policy). Lastly, it greatly demonstrates Monkey's point about how he's just blatantly lying about him being anti-establishment.

SG, you should really watch this, by the way. You're not stupid, and I know you'll get what's being explained here. I'd be really surprised if you would come out in support of his tax plan after watching it:

By the way, those effective tax rate numbers are insanely low. Most if not all of Western-Europe has much higher effective tax rates and the middle class is both bigger and has a markably higher standard of living than you folks states-side. But that's not something Clinton is addressing either, so it doesn't really matter in this discussion. Just thought I'd point it out...

#115 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 454 weeks ago

I know TYT gets a lot of flack, most of it deserved, but I do watching some of their post-debate videos from time to time. In this one, the second half of it, explains fairly well why I'm so baffled by the widespread support for Trump:

I think Cenk is an ass, but I share his frustration on this one!

#116 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 454 weeks ago

Smoking Guns wrote:

The sex tape is behind him now.

Trump won on content.
Hillary won on delivery.

Overall winner: TRUMP

Smoking Guns wrote:

Remember winning doesn't mean they gave the right answer. Means overall posture he won. Especially compared to the first debate.

I'm sorry man, not singling you out, but these two posts seem super contradictory to me... Unless you mean neither gave the right answers, but then I'm even more baffled that you'd give Trump the win based on content...

#117 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 454 weeks ago

Smoking Guns wrote:

A true libertarian would argue that the unborn child has rights and freedoms... you act as if these women are removing their appendix....  This is not like getting fake tits or anything else dealing with body parts they were born with... This is about killing an unborn living child.

But it isn't an "unborn child" in more than 99% of the abortion cases, it's a fetus (or often even just an embryo). Those are not people, they are much more similar to an appendix than you might realize. It has the potential to become a person, but it isn't a person yet at that stage. Using the term "unborn child" is therefor not really conducive to having an honest conversation about this. It's a non-technical term that is laden with emotions and simply isn't accurate. A fetus exhibits none of the traits we associated with being a person until around week 16.

#118 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 454 weeks ago

polluxlm wrote:

Right, Hillary helping the poor out of the goodness of her heart. I'm sure even democrats will struggle to believe that.

When you listen to the tape you can hear Hillary did a hell of a job to get the evidence thrown out, forcing a plea deal. If that's not getting your client off I don't know what is. No, obviously she is not in charge of sentencing, but she did her job and he walked for time already served. And now she remembers the case fondly because it helped her career.

Not a scandal in my book. I expect that is how most lawyers talk in private. But since macho talk in private is now suddenly a big deal to determine the fitness of a Presidential candidate I figured it was time to bring it up.

There is nothing in there that makes her a bad person in my book, on the contrary: I actually respect her a little bit more after hearing that audio fragment (so I now respect her a little bit, I guess). See, Hillary doing her job as a defense attorney by defending a child molester doesn't make her a child molester, she isn't boasting about committing a crime, she isn't bragging about anything except being great at her job. Trump on the other hand is bragging about things he himself did/can get away with. He is the child molester in this scenario. This is not just two politicians bragging, this is one politician bragging about her achievements and one bragging about being a misogynist pig.

You can't just throw out that video and say "see, she brags too, so she's equally despicable". The bragging is not the issue here.

#119 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 454 weeks ago

Smoking Guns wrote:

Lol at those that think medical reasons are why many abortions happen.... those are a very VERY small percentage. Most abortions are from people that like to fuck but don't want the inconvenience of kids. I get it. But they have condoms and birth control and ovulation scheldules. To get pregnant you are either trying, stupid, or extremely unlucky like a condom breaks and your other medicine negated the affects of the birth control.

Dude, where do you get these numbers? Late term abortions only make up 1% of the total number of abortions in the US. The argument that was being made is that of those late term abortions, all of them are for medical reasons. The VAST majority of abortions happen in the first trimester, and yes a good number of those are because the parents aren't ready for (or simply don't want) kids. What's wrong with that? There seems to be general consensus in the medical community that a fetus doesn't show the necessary brain activity to be considered sentient in the first trimester. Hell, even the Christian church used to adhere to a theory that a fetus is only endowed with a soul around week 16/17 (it has since been abandoned, but still, goes to show how flexible their belief system is...).

I can guarantee you that the vast majority of first trimester abortions are because of a problem with other firms of birth control. It just doesn't make a lick of sense to think that a couple would fuck to their heart's content counting on the fact that they can get an abortion later on instead of just relying on any of the many other contraceptives available. Abortion is almost always used as the back-up to another method of contraception.

But frankly, all of that shouldn't matter. It is their fucking choice, just stop trying to control what someone else can do with their own body when it doesn't affect you in the slightest bit.

#120 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 454 weeks ago

polluxlm wrote:

The reason why I say I'm surprised at all the fuzz about Trump is that stuff like this has been around for a long time:

So if nobody cares that Hillary got a child molester off and bragged and laughed about it, I fail to see why Trump making a lewd joke is such a big deal. Of course we know why there is such a disparity from the media, but nobody wants to talk about that either. Trump says mean things and knows how to do tax deductions, focus on that.

For those who still don't get it, the supporters of Trump are those who see how ridiculous this is. How screwed up such a system has become and how it desperately needs change. If it's the guy from the Apprentice with funny hair, so be it. They're not leaving us a lot of options.

I'd recommend everyone actually watch that video, 'cause Pollux's description above is disingenuous and in no way supported by the actual video. Yes, she's telling an anecdote of how she, in her time as a defense lawyer, once was able to drastically reduce someone's sentence based on a technicality. That was her friggin' job, her legal obligation as a defense attorney (and I'd say moral obligation as well). All she's doing in this video talking about how good she was at it, sharing an interesting anecdote that demonstrates how the system sometimes doesn't work, that is all...

Nothing to see here, as usual, but at the very least watch the video and see for yourself...

So yeah, Hillary does her job and does it well, doesn't commit any actual crimes: she supports child molestation. Trump talks about grabbing women in the pussy, in line with all of his other misogynistic exploits: he's just joking. And you have the gall to say the media is skewing the story... that's just insane.

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