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#131 Re: Guns N' Roses » Hardschool single coming September 24th. » 195 weeks ago
The press release only credits Axl as the writer.
What press release?
#132 Re: Guns N' Roses » Hardschool single coming September 24th. » 195 weeks ago
Sky Dog wrote:Billboard article said 7 writers of this song! Ludicrous
Did they name any?
I think they just got the info from the credits in the Aien cover on Spotify and youtube, which lists all 7 members of the 1999 lineup as writers (Axl, Tobias, Dizzy, Finck, Stinson, Freese, Pitman). I don't think Aien knew more than we do.
#133 Re: Guns N' Roses » Songwriting Credits » 197 weeks ago
I’m pretty sure Izzy Stradlin got a substantial amount of royalties from the Illusion albums. The 1992 partnership can’t take away his songwriting credits!
Of course he did. Those shares in the partnership agreement (Axl 36,3%, Slash 33,3%, Duff 30,3%) were not about publishing (songwriting) royalties, but about other royalties/revenues (there was a separate agreement about the publishing). But he eventually got part of those other royalties, too; he mentioned that his lawyers made a deal so that he would receive royalties from the master recordings until 1997.
#134 Re: Dust N' Bones & Cyborg Slunks » 2003 killer footage of "The Project" pre Weiland » 198 weeks ago
In the quotes I know (including his book), Duff said that he became addicted to Xanax in two week time (he was taking more and more, and after two weeks he ended up taking 22 pills a day), not that he recovered after two weeks. After about two months of that, he went to a doctor who gave him tapering-down drugs and he went on with those until the end of the Contraband tour. Then, after the tour ended he went to rehab for a month.
#135 Re: Guns N' Roses » Songwriting Credits » 198 weeks ago
Maybe someone has done this before, but I searched all the GN'R catalogue (song by song and writer by writer) on ASCAP/BMI, GMR (Global Music Rights) and SESAC - since these organizations collect royalties on behalf of songwriters and their publishers, they list all the musicians who receive songwriting royalties for each song. The data there are the result of the way a band has decided to split the publishing rights/royalties between the members and may not be identical to to the writing credits in an album's liner notes - for example, a band member may not be credited as one of the writers of a particular song, but may be entitled to royalties for it.
I think publishing and royalties are split differently. Typically a band splits the former evenly, but since Axl felt he had to be paid more Steven ended up giving him 5% of his share to keep the peace. On songwriting however Axl said he received something like 40% of Appetite and probably more on the Illusions if we count the credits.
It seems in modern Guns your publishing is determined by how much you contribute to the song and loyalty to Axl, ie. Dizzy. But I still reckon the actual song writing royalties go to whoever wrote the song, so Axl gets 100% of that post on November Rain and anything else he is listed as sole writer of.
The publishing royalties are the royalties from songwriting, and there are three main types: mechanical (the royalties songwriters get from record sales), performing (the royalties songwriters get from radio play and streaming) and sync (that has to do with owning the copyright and licensing a song for use in a movie, video game, TV show, etc.). ASCAP and the other organizations collect the performing royalties, so the percentages they control are definitely about songwriting.
Then there are other royalties that are not publishing and don't have to do with songwriting, but with the master recordings (not the composition) of the songs. So in the case of a cover album, like TSI, the band gets only this type of royalties, since they didn't write the songs.
This article here explains it all in more detail:
https://soundcharts.com/blog/how-the-mu … hing-works
What Axl said was that when the time came to split the publishing for Appetite, they used a formula that calculated the percentages according to what each one contributed, and the result was 40% for him. Steven said that with that formula he would end up getting practically nothing. However, they eventually didn't split it according to the formula. Niven suggested that it would be better to split it five ways evenly. So Axl agreed to give part of his initial percentage to Steven, but probably didn't agree to completely even shares regarding Steven, so it ended up being 25% for Axl, 15% for Steven and 20% for Slash, Izzy and Duff.
And it seems that despite the credits in the liner notes of the Illusions, the resulting shares of publishing royalties for songwriting were not essentially different than the ones for Appetite and Lies, in the sense that all Axl, Slash, Izzy and Duff got near equal shares. But the way they were calculated was more complicated (Slash talks about it in his book): this time they did use a formula, calculating who wrote what (e.g. Axl's 100% on November Rain, Izzy's 100% on You Ain't The First and everything else each member wrote), then that was applied to the album as a whole (at least for the songs that didn't have outside writers), and then it was divided per song, so they ended up getting the same fixed percentages for each song. And as a result, whenever a song is played on the radio (e.g. November Rain), they all get royalties for it, although Axl is the sole writer.
Only on CD the way changed and it was more based on what each member actually contributed to each song separately. And it couldn't have been done differently, since there were many writers, most of whom were not in the band anymore when the album was released, plus there were no partners this time, but Axl was the only owner of the band. It seems that Axl reserved a fixed 50% for himself for lyrics, melodies and probably production, and his percentage increased depending on whether he had a part in writing the music. And then the rest was split between the other member(s).
The royalties from the master recordings (not the songwriting) go mostly to the record label (since it payed for the recording) and the band gets a smaller portion of them depending on the terms of the contract with the label. From the 1992 partnership agreement we know that those royalties from the Illusion albums (as well as the revenues from touring, merchandise, etc.) were split between the three then partners, Axl, Slash and Duff (Axl had 36,3%, Slash 33,3% and Duff 30,3%). The royalties from the recordings of the then "old records" (Appetite and Lies) were split evenly (20% each) between the five members of the Appetite lineup.
#136 Re: Guns N' Roses » GN'R 2021 Tour Thread » 198 weeks ago
Wagszilla wrote:Time went by and it became a joke.
Indianapolis, tonight is going to be special 🌹 pic.twitter.com/DQ0DAOBaec
— Guns N' Roses (@gunsnroses) September 8, 2021[/embed]
What the fuck is that picture supposed to represent for Indiana?
I don't get it...
Arni's Pizza. More about Axl and Indiana than Indiana itself. From a 2002 article in the local newspaper of Lafayette:
While Guns N’ Roses hasn’t performed in Indiana since a July 1992 concert in Indianapolis, Rose, 40, has made almost annual sneak visits to Lafayette to visit family and Arni’s on Elmwood Avenue. Arni’s owner Brad Cohen said Rose’s last visit was a little over a year ago to pick up some pizzas to go. Cohen said he more often ships pizzas out to Rose’s home in Malibu, Calif. Sometimes it’s a couple pies while other times Arni’s has catered parties hosted by Axl.
“I tease people that I’m one of the few that has access to Axl’s credit card number,” Cohen said.
Just after Guns N’ Roses performed at the 1992 Indianapolis concert, Rose took a table in the Toys in the Attic Room at Arni’s with an entourage of bodyguards. A crowd of about 30 fans formed as Rose was leaving in a limousine. Rose smiled and waved at the crowd before he departed. The excitement from the strawberry-blond, headband-sporting singer’s sighting did not die down for a while.
“Weeks after his visit, we had cute little college girls come in and want to sit in the actual booth Axl sat in,” Cohen said. “They wanted to be close to his blood and sweat so to speak.”
Cohen, who owns Guns N’ Roses’ first two releases Appetite for Destruction and Lies, added that no one could remember which table he sat in and would point to any open table in the room and tell customers "That’s the one.”
“My dad (the late Arni Cohen) wasn’t a big listener of Guns N’ Roses, but we had fun with the celebrity status Arni’s got by his visits,” Cohen said. “I appreciate the fact that he’s an Arni’s fan. I respect his choice in pizza.”
Encounters with Rose
Amused Clothing manager Jay Buck recalled one memorable night in 1988 when Rose was eating dinner with family at Arni’s. Buck was only 15 working at his first job at Arni’s, but he was picked to serve Rose’s table.
"I wasn’t a big fan of Axl Rose. That’s why they sent me out there,” Buck remembered. “Everyone else would have been ‘Hey, can I have your autograph?'”
The night was even more memorable as Buck tripped over a purse, which belonged to Rose’s mother, that was sitting in the aisle. Buck was carrying a large tray full of sodas that landed all over Rose and his family. Buck said the sticky and drenched rock star wasn’t mad as he saw the guilty purse was in the way, but most of Buck’s co-workers thought he did it on purpose.
*
And so they thought it would be a good idea to make Axl's favourite pizza a show poster... But then again, it's the same band that in 1993 had pizza served to them on stage in 1993.
#137 Re: Guns N' Roses » GN'R 2021 Tour Thread » 198 weeks ago
If there's really an album at the stage of pressing - or ready for pressing - it's incomprehensible why they haven't announced it. What kind of "plan" is that? They don't need to have a release date to do so. They could just say it's ready and the date is TBA, and that would be enough to create a buzz. Unless all what Fernando meant by the "vinyls" that are "being in the works" (but delayed) was just a 7'' with studio and live version of Absurd.
Regarding the Locked and Loaded box set, in their defense, I'm not sure it had much to do with the band and management. Someone form UMG said that the band was against the inclusion of all those non musical items, and comments by industry reps at the time suggested that the GN'R reissue was used by UMG as an experiment to test the market for overpriced box sets. Apparently the experiment failed.
#138 Re: Guns N' Roses » Songwriting Credits » 198 weeks ago
Absurd is, in a way, a return to the band's old M.O., which is more convenient in the current situation The credit in the "liner notes" is collectively to "Guns N' Roses", like it was on Appetite and Lies. And as far as the publishing/royalties go, they're being split similarly to the Illusions: the "main" members and partners in the band (now Axl, Slash and Duff) get a cut regardless of who wrote what. It's not really that much different than Slash and Duff getting royalties for songs written by Hollywood Rose, or for Back Off Bitch and Shadow Of Your Love that were written by Axl and Paul Tobias in 1982, or for songs written by West Arkeen and Del James.
And then the other current members (practically just Dizzy) are getting a cut depending on if and what they have contributed in the songwriting.
What remains to be seen is whether Pitman's case is indicative of a pattern that will be followed with "nu" members (or at least some of them), or it just happened that whatever Pitman contributed to the song wasn't such that would require giving him credit and a royalty share.
#139 Re: Guns N' Roses » Songwriting Credits » 198 weeks ago
ASCAP controls 30% of Absurd, so that's Dizzy's share on the song, since he's the only one of the listed writers who is represented by ASCAP. So the remaining 70% will be divided between Axl, Slash and Duff.
*
(Note: This post has been updated a few times since first posted. Last update: Nov. 10, 2023)
Maybe someone has done this before, but I had a thorough look at the online repertories of ASCAP, BMI, GMR (Global Music Rights) and SESAC, which are PRO's (Performing Rights Organizations) that collect royalties on behalf of songwriters and their publishers, so they list all the musicians who receive songwriting royalties for each song.
These data are the result of the way a band has decided to split the publishing rights/royalties (i.e. royalties from songwriting) between the members and may not be identical to to the writing credits in an album's liner notes: for example, a band member may not be listed in the liner notes as one of the writers of a particular song, but may be entitled to royalties for it; or the songs may be collectively credited to the band, but in reality not all members get an equal publishing share for them.
GN'R members and outside co-writers are represented by different PRO's:
* SESAC: Axl.
* GMR: Slash, Duff.
* ASCAP: Izzy, Steven, Matt, Dizzy, Paul Tobias, Tommy Stinson, Robin Finck, Chris Pitman, West Arkeen (estate), Chris Weber, Dave Lank.
* BMI: Josh Freese, Buckethead, Brain, Pete Scaturro, Caram Costanzo, Del James.
ASCAP, BMI and GMR report the percentage they control over other PRO's; e.g. for a song listed as co-written by Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff and Steven, ASCAP reports the percentage it controls, which corresponds to the combined shares of Izzy and Steven, and the same goes for GMR in regards to Slash and Duff's combined shares.
SESAC doesn't provide this information, which would be Axl's share. However, there is another source for that: the database of Universal (which has Axl's publishing) reports the percentage it controls. Universal also has Chris Weber's publishing as far as GN'R songs are concerned, so that makes possible to determine which portion of the share controlled by ASCAP is his, as well as Timo Kaltio's publishing (he's not on ASCAP though, so it doesn't help as much). There are also the databases of PRO's that represent music rights in other countries (e.g. CMRRA in Canada and SACEM in France), which may provide more details about the publishing shares in combination with the main databases listed above, as songwriters that are in different PRO's in the US may be in the same PRO of another country.
1. Appetite For Destruction and GN'R Lies
In the albums' liner notes all original songs are credited collectively to "Guns N' Roses" and, wherever the case, to additional songwriters (West Arkeen on It's So Easy, Chris Weber on Anything Goes, Reckless Life and Move To The City) *
The information in the databases confirms what we know from other sources about how the publishing was split between the members: Axl 25%, Slash, Izzy and Duff 20% each, and Steven 15%.
More specifically:
1) For all original songs with no outside writers: ASCAP (Izzy, Steven): 35%; GMR (Slash, Duff): 40%; Universal (Axl): 25%
2) In the case songs with additional songwriters, as expected, the band members' shares are decreased:
- It's So Easy: 17,5% Axl; 28% Slash + Duff; 54% Izzy+Steven+West Arkeen.
- Anything Goes, Reckless Life and Move To The City: 22.5% Axl; 36% Slash + Duff; 31.5% Izzy + Steven; 10% Chris Weber.
* Note: Live ?!*@ Like a Suicide, which was later included in GN'R Lies, listed individual writers: Axl, Izzy, Slash and Chris Weber for Reckless Life; Izzy, Chris Weber and "DJ" (real name Daniel Nicolson) for Move To The City. However, as evident from the data above, the arrangement changed later with these songs being credited collectively to GN'R and all members (plus Chris Weber) having a publishing share.
2. Use Your Illusion I and II
Unlike Appetite and Lies, the UYI liner notes list specific writers for each song (e.g. Axl and Izzy on You Could Be Mine, Slash and Axl on Locomotive, etc.).
However, that doesn't affect the way the publishing for each song is split: according to the PRO's, the four "main" members (Axl, Slash, Izzy and Duff) get a fixed percentage for each original song written entirely by the band. Only this time the way the shares were calculated was more complicated compared to the shares for AFD and Lies songs, so the percentages are not round figures (according to Slash's book, that happened because they had to calculate a small share for Matt - and I guess Dizzy, too - as well as because of the many outside writers like West Arkeen, Del James, etc.).
For example, although only Axl is credited for writing November Rain in the album liner notes, GMR (Slash and Duff) controls 47.68%, ASCAP (Izzy) 24.26% and Universal reports 26.27% for Axl - and these shares apply for every original UYI song that doesn't have additional writers (the decimals in the ASCAP shares differ slightly from song to song - it may have to do with the publishers). The remaining percentages are obviously Matt's and Dizzy's small shares.
The formula they seemingly used was: first they determined who wrote what (ie. the writers of each songs that we read in the liner notes) and the percentages of each one's contributions to each song (e.g. Don't Cry could be 50% Axl and 50% Izzy); then they calculated all that together and determined each one's shares in the album as a whole (at least the songs that didn't have outside writers), so e.g. Izzy has a share around 24.5% for his overall contributions to the albums; and then they applied those percentages to each song.
So, the fact that, for example, Slash wasn't credited in the liner notes as a co-writer for November Rain and Estranged may affect his share in the albums as a whole, but doesn't mean that he doesn't get royalties for these songs (like when streamed or played on the radio).
* Note: In the 2022 reissue of UYI, the liner notes reflect the real credits that can be found in the PRO's databases, so all members are credited for all songs.
More specifically:
1) Original songs with no outside writers: 26.27% Axl; 24.5% Izzy; 47.7% Slash + Duff; 1.5% Matt + Dizzy.
2) Songs co-written by outside writers:
* Right Next Door To Hell: 50.84% Axl + Timo Kaltio; 32.52% Slash + Duff; 16.18% Izzy. That leaves a small share of about 0,5% for Matt and Dizzy.
* Bad Obsession: 18.38% Axl; 33.38% Slash + Duff; 47.1% Izzy + West Arkeen; 1.14% Matt + Dizzy.
* Back Off Bitch: 21.01% Axl; 38.84% Slash + Duff; 40,15 Izzy + Paul Tobias (+ Matt + Dizzy).
* The Garden: 5.26% Axl; 9.54% Slash + Duff; 54.84% Izzy + West Arkeen. So the remaining 30.36% includes the shares of Del James, Matt and Dizzy (BMI doesn't provide info on Del James' share, but it's safe to assume that it's about 29%).
* Don't Damn Me: 21.89% Axl; 40.44% Slash + Duff; 20.22% Izzy; 16.66% Dave Lank. That leaves about 0.8% for Matt and Dizzy.
* Yesterdays: 8.67% Axl; 15.72% Slash + Duff; 68% Izzy + West Arkeen + Billy McCloud. So the remaining 8.92 includes the shares of Del James, Matt and Dizzy (again BMI doesn't provide info on Del's share).
3. Ain't Goin' Down (pinball machine)
25% Axl; 50% Slash + Duff; 25% Izzy.
4. Shadow Of Your Love
24.38% Axl. The rest is divided between Slash, Izzy, Duff, Steven and Paul Tobias (the databases don't provide percentages).
5. Appetite For Destruction 2018 reissue ("Locked and Loaded") - "new" songs
* The Plague, New Work Tune and Ain't Goin' Down No More (instrumental): 25% Axl; 37.48% Izzy + Steven; the remaining 37.62 is apparently Slash's and Duff's combined share, who are also listed as writers (GMR doesn't provide info).
Izzy's and Steven's combined share appears to be slightly higher than for Appetite/Lies songs, but it might be a mistake on ASCAP's database.
6. West Arkeen songs/"Hell House demos"
* Crash Diet: West Arkeen, Axl, Del James and Daniel Clarke are listed as writers: 31% West Arkeen; 38% Axl. No info on the other percentages.
* Bring It Down Home: West Arkeen and Axl are listed as writers. 50% West Arkeen; 50% Axl.
* Too Much Too Soon: West Arkeen and Duff are listed as writers. 90% West Arkeen; 10% Duff.
* Sentimental Movie: West Arkeen, Duff and Del James are listed as writers. 75% West Arkeen; 25% Duff + Del James (the databases don't provide info).
* Just Another Sunday: No information at all (most likely because it's not on the West Arkeen tape).
7. Hollywood Rose songs (The Roots Of Guns N' Roses album)
* Killing Time and Rocker: 50% Axl; 50% Chris Weber.
Interesting that Izzy doesn't have a share, although he probably co-wrote these songs. Maybe he didn't care to pursue it, but apparently Axl did.
8. Chinese Democracy + Oh My God
Like on UYI, the credits in the album's liner notes list specific writers for each song. But, in this case, the publishing is also split on each song separately. However, the album credits don't completely coincide with the names found in the repertories: in some cases, the latter list additional names. The are also some differences between the credits in the liner notes in the regular album artwork ("bicycle" cover) and the ones in the alternate artwork ("red hand" and "grenade" covers), which suggests that there were probably mistakes in the liner notes.. So the data provided by the databases about the percentages they control on each CD song may be actually informative, at least to an extent, about each member's contributions.
It seems that Axl reserved a fixed 50% for himself for lyrics, melodies and probably arrangement and production. Then his percentage might increase depending on the part he had in writing the music. So, for example, it appears that Axl wrote most of the music on Prostitute (since he has 90%) and a big part of the music on I.R.S (since he has 75%).
Specifically (marked in red are the additional writers that are listed in the repertories but not in the album's liner notes - I have gone with the liner notes in the alternate album artwork):
* Oh My God: 50% Axl; 33% divided between Paul, Sean Riggs and Tommy; 15% Dizzy; 2% Josh Freese.
* Chinese Democracy: 50% Axl; 27% divided between Josh Freese and Caram Costanzo; 21% divided between Dizzy, Paul, Robin and Tommy; 2% Eric Caudieux.
* Shackler's Revenge: 50% Axl; 20% divided between Buckethead and Brain; 25% divided between Pete Scaturro and Caram; 5% Robin.
* Better: 50% Axl; 50% Robin.
* Street Of Dreams: 63% Axl; 37% divided between Dizzy, Paul, Tommy and Robin.
* If The World: 55% Axl; 45% Pitman.
* There Was A Time: 50% Axl; 50% divided between Dizzy, Paul and Tommy.
* Catcher In The Rye: 67% Axl; 33% divided between Dizzy, Paul, Tommy and Robin.
* Scraped: 52% Axl; 24% Buckethead; 24% Caram Costanzo.
* Riad N' The Bedouins: 50% Axl; 50% divided between Dizzy, Paul, Tommy and Robin.
* Sorry: 50% Axl; 33.33% divided between Buckethead and Brain; 16.67% Pete Scaturro.
* I.R.S.: 75% Axl; 25% divided between Dizzy and Paul.
* Madagascar: 50% Axl; 50% Pitman + MLK estate. Universal database also lists a version without credit to the MLK estate in which Axl's share is 67%, so it's safe to assume that Pitman's share is 33% also in the version with the MLK speech, which leaves 17% for the MLK estate.
* This I Love: 100% Axl.
* Prostitute: 90% Axl; 10% divided between Paul and Robin.
9. CD era songs reworked and released by the NITL lineup
As far as the "liner notes" go, there seems to be a return to the Appetite/Lies formula (which is a common formula used by many bands): the songs are credited collectively to "Guns N' Roses" (however, according to a press release issued by the band for Hard Skool, the song was written by Axl).
Regarding the publishing shares, although there seems to be a similar pattern with CD as far as Axl's share is concerned, the difference is that now Slash and Duff get a cut from the remaining percentage (apparently as part of an arrangement for agreeing to work on these songs). Judging from the data so far, it seems that Slash and Duff's shares are not fixed, but depend on how many other writers there are. It should be also noted that there may be additional factors affecting these shares; for example, Slash's and Duff's shares are all theirs, since they're their own publishers, whereas a portion of Axl's share goes to Universal, since it has his publishing (usually the publisher gets 25%-50% of the artist's share, but in Axl's case it's likely that Universal gets more because of the deal Axl signed in 2005).
So in this case the shares are a bit less representative than the ones on CD about who wrote what, however they do provide an insight.
* Absurd: 49% Axl; 30% Dizzy; 21% Slash + Duff. Pitman is not listed as writer.
* Hard Skool: 76% Axl; 11.5% divided between Tommy, Robin and Paul Tobias; 1% Josh Freese; 11.5% Slash + Duff.
So it seems that Axl wrote a big part of the music for Hard Skool besides the lyrics, similarly to I.R.S.
* Perhaps: 70% Axl; 30% divided between Slash, Duff and Paul Tobias (no information about the exact shares).
So it appears that the song was mostly written by Axl.
* The General (listed on SESAC and other PRO's as The General and Monsters): 40% Axl; 60% divided between Slash, Duff, Brain, Steve Freeman and Marc Haggard (no info on the exact percentages yet).
Note: Steve "Extrakd" Freeman and Marc "Mirv" Haggard have written songs with Brain and Buckethead.
#140 Re: Guns N' Roses » Songwriting Credits » 198 weeks ago
ASCAP has two versions of Ain't Goin' Down listed, one is (apparently) the instrumental and the other is the one that was on the pinball machine.