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#151 Re: Guns N' Roses » Radio Reacts To Guns N' Roses Single » 870 weeks ago

'Don't you try to stop us now' is either Sorry, Scraped or This I Love. I might go with Scraped.

If it is Scraped, Bucket and Ron are really pushed out in the promotion. Shackler and CD are both heavy-duty guitar tracks and Scraped was a Bucket song to begin with.

#152 Re: Guns N' Roses » Kudos to Bumblefoot » 870 weeks ago

Hear hear James,

None too late to give some credit to Ron, as last I checked, he's still in the band. Guess it's one of those things; Bucket was asked to fill in for Slash and that caused an outcry, now Ron was to step in for Bucket... The good thing is, both Axl and Ron obviously have a huge respect for Bucket's existing work and Ron merely worked his around it, complimenting it and adding further texture to the song(s). And that's the way you do it with a guitar god like Bucket.

The guitar phalanx Robin (lead) - Ron (rhythm) - Bucket (lead) would actually sound killer live, as I believe Ron could make a good deal out of the pocket the others'd put him into. He's versatile enough to be the most technically skilled guitarist of the current lineup, but he doesn't seem to have that many ego problems surrounding the whole gig.

Robin and Bucket are both so distinguishable on their own right that if they'd have someone like Ron rolling out the red carpet, the live sound could be richer than you could imagine.

#153 Re: Guns N' Roses » Guns N' Roses to release Chinese Democracy single » 870 weeks ago

Big Gun wrote:

it seems like azoff played for best buy employees the singles.

It's of course possible that Shackler doesn't count and ITW will be re-released as a radio single at some point.

TWAT makes a good softer single track, IMHO.

#154 Re: Guns N' Roses » Fernando vs Mysteron » 870 weeks ago

Smoking Guns wrote:
madagas wrote:

I want to get the album just for This I Love and Catcher in the Rye done proper. cool

This was the last song that Slash was rumored to work on that Axl could be using.  I would assume Slash's parts have been redone, I am interested in this one too.... I think its going to be THE big gun.

Oklahoma, Prostitute and This I Love may all actually stem from the '96 sessions with the old band. They did seven songs in that period, so there may be four others.

#155 Re: Guns N' Roses » A Darwinian look at the track listing » 870 weeks ago

Again, I believe those 32 songs Axl mentioned in early '06 represented the contemporary A-list. The B-list would've therefore consisted of songs not worked on regularly at the time, and it could be around 30-40 songs. Some songs may have been abandoned altogether, so the exact B-list numbers are obviously a guessing game.

As you said, Shackler and Scraped are obviously Bucket & Brain tracks; Dizzy has mentioned Baz's favorite, The General, to be a Brain track. Rhiad's a likely B&B track - I wouldn't be surprised if Sorry would be one as well.

They came in comparatively late into the game, but definitely contributed to wholly new studio tracks. That's the best answer I currently have. Will be interesting to learn more as time passes.


And how about we hear Thomas Eugene Stinson on the matter?

"We did most of the music as a total collaborative effort a while back, most of the music was recorded four years ago. In the last seven years, in the last four years, it's been pretty much done. [...] It's been through a couple of producers' hands, some have been good, some have been bad." (Tommy, Rhinocast, 01/16/06)

Tommy recorded the interview in late 2005. Therefore, most of the music was done (as in, written) between '98 and '01. This definitely jives with a lot of things. Sean Beavan came into the fold in '98 and managed to draw Axl's focus into place and songs started to trickle out from the sessions. All 30 of them. Additional tracks were also written with the '01 lineup, it seems.

So you know, don't despair. wink

#156 Guns N' Roses » Best Buy to release GNR's back catalogue on new format » 870 weeks ago

sic.
Replies: 8

Something that just jumped right at me.

With all the work being done to upgrade CD materials these days, it's no wonder Universal/JVC would actually discover a new material that really does something'¦a big something at that! SHM-CD, or Super High Material CD, is an improved version of the Compact Disc material that uses super quality, enhanced transparency polycarbonate material developed for use in LCD screens. They will play in any CD player.

Universal Music Japan and JVC co-developed the SHM-CD. They report that the new material allows the pits to be formed more precisely plus eliminates laser splatter. The signal characteristics are improved as a result with overall lower distortion and better musicality. Universal Japan is reissuing a ton of albums in their catalog in all genres as SHM-CDs and this is the first report of their CDs to reach these shores! - Positive Feedback


Now, as for those BestBuy databases:

Appetite For Destruction (Shm)  Pop 12/3/2008
Gn'R Lies (Shm)  Pop 12/3/2008
Use Your Illusion 1 (Shm)  Pop 12/3/2008
Use Your Illusion 2 (Shm)  Pop 12/3/2008
Spaghetti Incident (Shm)  Pop 12/3/2008


On 12/03/08, BestBuy (if not others) will release the GNR back catalogue stateside in SHM format. That's the day after which CD is supposed to chart for the first time. If I wouldn't know any better, I'd say that's one sneaky way to get some of the more jaded collectors out into the Big Box to upgrade their discs and maybe throw in a bundle offer that includes the new studio album...

Interesting.

#157 Re: Guns N' Roses » A Darwinian look at the track listing » 870 weeks ago

Neemo wrote:

another thing about this...Brain was saying that josh had laid down 30 songs by the time he arrived..that would pretty much date everythign to prebucket as in 06 Axl claimed to have 32 songs in during the Korn Party

There were around 30 tracks completed (some of them with lead vocals) by the Axl/Robin/Paul/Tommy/Josh/Dizzy/Pitman lineup.

"We've been working on, I don't know, 70 songs." (Axl, MTV, 11/07/99)

There were another 40 tracks on the B-list, as they called it.


And this is after RTB was let go:

"I went to the studio 3 weeks ago [in mid-February] and heard 41 songs [...] from the 60 or 70 [Axl]'s working on..." (Kerrang, 03/07/02)

Still, a pool of 60-70 songs in various stages of completion, with 41 apparently something to show off.


What you have to understand is that all the leaks are A-listed tracks, no matter from which era they come from. At this point, A-list equals solid song structure and lead vocals. B-list could be characterized as loops, sketches and ideas. If we'd hear some of them, we might figure where the whole song is in the first place. While songs like ITW or Better may have existed a long period of as beats, loops and various guitar parts, they've more likely been kept on the B-list as the A-list'd demanded a more hands-on approach.


Neemo wrote:

it seems that Axl wasnt interested in new stuff from brain in that recent interview ... just him adding his sig to existing material which was already recorded

It does appear that in 2001, Axl was adamant about re-recording all 30 A-listed tracks made with Sean Beavan to pass the mustard. This was likely due to Bob Ezrin's offhand comment about having only three good songs.

Meanwhile, Brain & Bucket might've just as well contributed to the everpresent B-list by bringing in stuff the band would work on. Take Silk Worms.

"I wouldn't say it's like, you know, that we recorded a double album, or that we have all of our scraps to be the second one. There is a distinct difference in sound. The second leans probably a little more to aggressive electronica with full guitars, where the first one is definitely more guitar-based." (Axl, MTV, 11/07/99)

Silk Worms was likely Dizzy and Pitman going out on their own cognition to create 'something new', which was something Axl wanted to experiment on at the time. Therefore, should it come as a surprise that when the two immensely talented Brians (The Coreys of GNR wink) came aboard, Axl'd give them the same treatment? 'Guys, re-record this n' that and then go out on your own to come up something for the band.' Stuff like Shackler, Rhiad and Scraped.

Some of the things they would've been pointed to might've been existing sketches, loops and ideas from the B-list, some might've just as well been original contributions, from which the band created songs.


Neemo wrote:

a second train of thought makes me envisualize 2 distinct recording periods

98-99 - Pitman, Tobias, Dizzy, Axl, Freese as mentioned on Chris's site..Madagascar and if the world getting a writing Credit from Pitman and Rose

That was definitely a period during which a good chunk of the material was initially created.

Neemo wrote:

03-04 - BH, Brain, Robin, Tommy, Axl which spawned tracks like Shacklers and Lies they tell as shown

It does, again, appear that not much new material was written during RTB's era (early '00-late '01), and that they were more interested in revising the old.

That would make early '02 and the whole 2003 the second main years of song-writing.

The rest has just been about re-mixing and legal issues.... For a while now.

#158 Re: Guns N' Roses » A Darwinian look at the track listing » 870 weeks ago

FlashFlood wrote:

better and ITW must predate 2005 as we assume they have bucket on them, and he left in 04

True. Likeliest case puts them into 2003, as Bucket 'stopped working' with Guns after they missed the 12/31/03 deadline set by the label.

But Better and ITW may provide indication as to the bands songwriting chops following the '02 tour, which I personally consider to have been nothing short of monstrous.

#159 Guns N' Roses » A Darwinian look at the track listing » 870 weeks ago

sic.
Replies: 18

As a sort of response to Neemo's thread, I decided to dissect the current track listing by first known year of existence of each track. When you break it down, it looks like this:

This I Love ('93)

Prostitute ('98)

Catcher In The Rye ('99)
Chinese Democracy ('99)
I.R.S. ('99)
Madagascar ('99)
Street Of Dreams ('99)
There Was A Time ('99)

Riad N' The Bedouins ('00)

Shackler's Revenge ('02)

Better ('05)
If The World ('05)
Scraped ('05)
Sorry ('05)


This I Love was written by Axl in '93 and basic instrumental tracks were recorded during the UYI tour. Prostitute was known to exist during the time Youth had a handful of sessions with the band (mid-'98), though it may be an even older track, possibly from the 1996 sessions with Slash, Duff, Matt and Paul Huge.

CD, IRS, Street of Dreams/The Blues and TWAT were previewed to RS correspondant David Wild in November '99. Axl played Maddy to a fan who visited his house in Halloween '99. Brian May recorded guitar parts for CITR in November '99.

Rhiad was created no later than in '00, as it was featured on the House of Blues show on 01/01/01. Mysteron dated Shackler for 2002.

Better was first mentioned by Axl in January '06. Also, Dizzy mentioned Scraped/Lies They Tell in the same month, although the interviewer was caught a bit off-guard with the title. If the World was first seen as an option on the Fall '06 setlist. Sorry was first mentioned by Baz in Rolling Stone in October '06. It's safe to assume all these tracks date at least a year back, if not more. However, they were likely created after RTB's and Tom Zutaut's era, in between '02 and '05.


When the tracks are now placed into various slots based on the date of their original creation, we got something like the following:

'Vintage GNR'

This I Love ('93)
Prostitute ('98)

Typically Axl-ish songs with probably the strongest connotations to the UYI-era power ballads. Piano ballads, which could've been just as well been pulled off by the old band, without seeming to be out of place.


Beavan's GNR

Catcher In The Rye ('99)
Chinese Democracy ('99)
I.R.S. ('99)
Madagascar ('99)
Street Of Dreams ('99)
There Was A Time ('99)

Axl's lyrical high point. Sprawling tales of love's labour lost and ironic takes on his own persona. The DJ Shadow influences have begun to show and the backing tracks are compiled from beats and loops, with guitars melded into the foreground. The alternative method of composing remains Axl's own piano arrangements, which remain his forte of song-writing (The Blues, CITR).


Bucket & Brain -era

Riad N' The Bedouins ('00)
Shackler's Revenge ('02)

Both tracks feature a heavy influence from Bucket and Brain from the get-go. The lineup changes seemingly altered the songwriting dynamics within the band, with B&B's innate chemistry replacing the more straight-forward, punk rock/hard rock approach with technical wizardry, with Axl's vocals sprinkled on top. Without a doubt, this was the most significant singular event in the band's audial evolution.


GNR, produced by Axl

Better ('05)
If The World ('05)
Scraped ('05)
Sorry ('05)

The two known tracks of the latest batch are considered amongst the most hailed efforts of the band so far. All former eras are now served in equal amounts; keyboard loops and drum beats form the foundation of the songs (in ITW's case, Jay-Z's Can I Live comes to mind as a kindred spirit), while heavy-duty guitars slide effortlessly into the mix. If the sound should be coined in some way, it might be best termed as the melting pot of all previous sounds with various band members / producers.


Axl's experiencing an uphill battle in some ways; after the album drops, he still has around 20 tracks originating from the Beavan sessions, with around the same amount from later eras. While the songs have been re-recorded, re-produced and re-mixed to the brink of death, the basic structures remain more or less the same, which keeps them in varying degrees rooted to the era of original creation.

How uneven the sound will be remains to be known. The current band will not be featured as a song-writing and -recording entity on their own right for no more than possibly a few tracks on the subsequent albums, as much of the music has been done during the past decade. Therefore, the bulk of the sound is represented by the '01 lineup - and will be for some time.

This also brings up an interesting point on the subject of 'GNR membership'. The most heavily represented people of all eras are naturally Axl, Robin, Tommy, Dizzy and Pitman. Long-gone soldiers Paul Huge, Bucket, Brain and Josh Freese also left their respective imprints in songwriting and recording, which will be audible (in varying degrees) in the years to come. Fortus, Ron and Frank are the new kids, who bring comparatively less to the table as the bulk of basic songwriting / compiling was done before either of them joined the band. While technically proficient for the most part to pull the songs off live, it's hard to imagine their contributions as much more than window dressing, shoehorned to the existing pockets of their respective predecessors.


In short, the CD album represents a widespread outlook of the musical journey Axl has undertaken, as while he attempts to masquerade the older tracks to gel with the latest batch, the legendarily secretive midnight sessions in both Rumbo and Village continue to cast a shadow over every other song.

I maintain that this is a part of the album's allure; the overall sound cannot simply be described in one word or the other, as we're inevitably dealing with the cream of the crop which has been planted in vastly different environments by people who sometimes have extremely varying musical sensibilities.

Some songs have come up relatively fast, others have been nurtured into age with tender loving care by more than a few different people. Therefore, CD should overall be a quite mature and diverse album, as the current version represents what Axl seems to consider to be the band's evolutionary high point.

Contributors of the past join hands with live members of the present, which is probably the only reasonable way to pull out the best of everyone in this star-studded affair. Evolution through Democracy, even though Axl's version of 'power to the people' may sometimes resemble that of Chairman Mao.

#160 Re: Guns N' Roses » Brain talks Chinese Democracy » 870 weeks ago

Oh, and Brain's drums were at the Village for four years.

GNR worked in the Village in between 2000-2004.


But he did it Death Magnetic way, just shooting for the whole thing at once, which was pretty rough, considering.

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