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#151 Re: The Garden » Elementary School Shooting in US » 654 weeks ago

DCK

I don't see it as an easy fix at all. But it's either doing something or just let it go on like this.

The argument that one needs to look at peoples mental illnesses instead of guns is like saying the States have more loonies and dumb people than the rest of us, which clearly is extremely silly thing to say.

#152 Re: The Garden » Elementary School Shooting in US » 654 weeks ago

DCK
Cramer wrote:
buzzsaw wrote:

LOL.  Not even worth a response.  The culture is what it is.  Passing a simple law won't change that.  Come up with a bett plan than plassing a law that has no chance of changing anything.

Who said it would be simple?

Why is requiring a thorough background check something that you are so opposed to? Mental evaluation before handing somebody a mini murder machine?

The point is that guns are much to easy to get a hold of in this country and we should make them much more difficult to acquire.

Not a tough concept.

It's surprisingly hard. It seperates you from the rest of the western world greatly.

For me, bit like the world of Islam such as Iran, Syria, Egypt - all the nice holiday places. Partly I look at them as backwards, and clearly not developing in the right direction. A bit like that with guns and the US for me. That's why I prefer Canada 16

#153 Re: The Garden » Elementary School Shooting in US » 654 weeks ago

DCK

Take Canadas view on alcohol laws and tripple it and you got Norway. Shit works.

misterID is bacially saying you can't do anything with guns in the US because they are simply there, and too many. I thought Australia did some actions on this matter...?

#154 Re: The Garden » Elementary School Shooting in US » 654 weeks ago

DCK

Ten arguments (based on reason and evidence?) offered against gun control since yesterday's mass slaughter (via Richard Dawkins)

1) Prohibition of alcohol didn't work -- avoiding the fact, based on strong evidence, that restricting guns DOES work in country after country.
2) Cars (used for transportation) are dangerous -- therefore there should be unlimited access to machines, the only purpose of which is killing. (This is like saying, since car transport is dangerous, we should allow cigarettes in closed spaces. Huh?)
3) The Oklahoma City bombers didn't use guns. In other words, "Because handfuls of people sometimes commit terrorist acts, acts that take long-term planning, we want to make sure it's legal to shower America with guns so that spontanous acts of violence are common and the killing can be done with great efficiency on the spur of the moment."
4) "a well-regulated militia" means making sure any random person can get semi-automatic weapons.
5) A nut in China injured school children with a knife, therefore in America we want to make sure a similar person can kill -- not injure -- kill -- and kill easily and, if they choose, kill in large numbers, on the spur of the moment, whenever someone flies into a jealous rage or psychotic state.
6) It's about insanity not guns -- this argument is apparently based on the hypothesis that Americans are a lot more insane than the British, Australians, French and the people of many other developed countries where guns are restricted and far fewer people die from guns.
7) Teachers and (some have actually said this!) children should have guns in school -- despite the fact that the Connecticut killer's mother apparently owned the semi-automatics that the killer used to kill...his own mother and so many children -- and -- the mother worked at the school where the killing occured.
8) Dictators from an earlier time used gun control, therefore the success of gun control in modern democracies should be ignored.
9) Mike Huckabee says it's because we don't have prayer in school which is as intellectually strong as arguments 1 through 8.
10) Finally the classic: it is disrespectful to the children who died to discuss methods of preventing similar killings. (Huh?).
Where are the arguments based on logic and reason that address the success of gun laws in major democracies like Germany, France, Spain and Australia? Or is religious gun worship enough until the next time a mass murder occurs. Meanwhile, every week, individuals are killed in some jealous rage in far greater numbers than in other industrialized societies -- with the use of machines designed for the efficient and spontaneous killing of humans. If there are non-religious arguments, evidence-based arguments, against gun control, please offer the evidence, or we will we be offered only more straw men and emotional rants?

#157 Re: The Garden » Elementary School Shooting in US » 654 weeks ago

DCK
misterID wrote:
DCK wrote:
misterID wrote:

I'm not spinning anything. What have I said that was untrue? Create all the strict gun laws you want, ban them... Your stats on violent crime would stay the same. Only the accidential shootings would go down.


Europes stats on murders by guns are in a different league than your own. We have them in hundreds, you have them in thousands.

Again, all about the guns nothing about the perps.

And I've already answered this about high crime cities in America and what can lower it. The city where this shooting happened only had one murder in a decade. There's a lot of places like that in this country with the same access to guns as everywhere else. You really need to get a better understanding of America before making broad generalizations about what its problems are.

Easy access to guns.

#158 Re: The Garden » Elementary School Shooting in US » 654 weeks ago

DCK
misterID wrote:
DCK wrote:

Fact is no matter how you spin it, you and your loved ones are much more likely to be gunned down than am I.

I'm not spinning anything. What have I said that was untrue? Create all the strict gun laws you want, ban them... Your stats on violent crime would stay the same. Only the accidential shootings would go down.


Europes stats on murders by guns are in a different league than your own. We have them in hundreds, you have them in thousands.

#159 Re: The Garden » Elementary School Shooting in US » 654 weeks ago

DCK

No bans man. It's not about banning. It's about control.

Considering fertizilers, which Breivik used in Norway, the gov was quick to close that loophole. That was control. We didn't ban fertilizers, we made it harder to access.

#160 Re: The Garden » Elementary School Shooting in US » 654 weeks ago

DCK
misterID wrote:

When our constituion was written, none of our rights were to include nearly half of the population today. The majority of owners don't kill people or go on mass shooting sprees. If we outlawed booze it would stop drunk driving... Or would it? People find ways around it. Going after the instrument is not the solution, it's the people behind it. But if they limited access to it, created stiffer regulations to them, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But it will do nothing to stop gun violence. Absolutely nothing.

About DUI, Norway haven't outlawed booze, but we have perhaps the most strict alcohol policy in the world, and even if I personally find it silly, I can't argue with the stats - IT WORKS.

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