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#181 Re: Guns N' Roses » RRHoF Discussion (Izzy/Slash/Axl Press Statements) » 689 weeks ago
monkeychow wrote:killingvector wrote:What was your opinion of the two lawsuits Slash and Duff fired at Axl a few years back. The first alleged that Axl's current partnership and $20mil publication deal should be nullified, effectively taking the name from him. The second was an allegation of theft and fraud when ASCAP deposited funds into Axl's Black Frog publication arm by mistake.
I'll tell you my opinion:
Lawsuits trying to get back control of the band and the name were justified, at least to the extent of being worthy of having their day in court. No one held a gun to their heads - because no one needed to. Axl's public record of acting against his own interests, causing riots, refusing to perform and going on anger benders was more than enough manipulation to pressure the other members into doing his will for fear that if they didn't a protracted dispute will emerge. Slash and duff are not blameless, they are junkies, and it was stupid to think that with all the business cards in Axl's pocket that they could just go back to rocking out. Axl also isn't the devil - he needed to gain control to avoid being fired for the harm his temper tantrums do to the band - tantrums which I suspect are some kind of chemical imbalance or whatever and there for largely not under his control. In short he did what he had to do, but he did essentially blackmail the others into giving him the name then convert them from equal partners to paid employees. He didn't need a gun or to be in the room making a direct "I won't go on stage" threat to do this - his track record speaks for itself.
The problem with this is that there was no blackmail as you say there was. It's only blackmail if Axl were to say, "sign this or else....". Duff even said nothing like that occurred. So, no ultimatum=no blackmail. There is no such thing as unspoken or implied blackmail. There has to be an overt threat, and there was none. That's an extreme twisting of the truth to call that blackmail. Even Duff isn't even sure this was an "Axl thing".
Opie & Anthony: Did he [Axl] really come to you and Slash and wanted you to sign paper before you went on stage.
Duff McKagan: No no no. I hope that part of the book is clear. In that part of our group, I don't think there was any connection between management and the band and all of that stuff. I do think people thought Slash and I were going to die. I think there were some safe guards...the point I was trying to make was our band had gotten so out of our control.
The papers were presented to us [by management].
Opie & Anthony: Do you think it was more of a management thing than from him [Axl] personally?
Duff McKagan: To this day I don't really know.
Ali
There was no blackmail as Ali said. If there was, then this would have been a huge issue in court. Instead, the crux of S&D's case was a cocktail napkin. They wanted to Axl's share of the original partnership on a technicality and not based on coercion.
#182 Re: Guns N' Roses » RRHoF Discussion (Izzy/Slash/Axl Press Statements) » 689 weeks ago
Lawsuits trying to get back control of the band and the name were justified, at least to the extent of being worthy of having their day in court.
They can be, but not in this case. Reading the details of the suit, Slash and Duff never claimed they were coerced into signing over the name. They produced a piece of paper (read like a cocktail napkin) in which Axl had allegedly scribbled that he quit. This was evidence that Axl left the band BEFORE they signed over the rights to him, hence he lost out on his share of the partnership and all publishing rights.
Not only was this suit based on pure silliness, the judge tossed it out without prejudice. Essentially, he challenged Duff and Slash to find better evidence that Axl left the band.
And, yes, it was extremely heavy handed AND harmful to accuse Axl of theft when ASCAP made the mistake.
Axl and Izzy have patched things up. So has Duff and Axl. Kinda makes you wonder if Axl is one conversation away from a reconciliation with Slash. I doubt it though. A liar is a liar is a liar.
#183 Re: Guns N' Roses » RRHoF Discussion (Izzy/Slash/Axl Press Statements) » 689 weeks ago
People, especially KV & Ali, are missing the point.
No, not at all. I've mentioned both reasons for Axl to fold on the invitation.
#184 Re: Guns N' Roses » RRHoF Discussion (Izzy/Slash/Axl Press Statements) » 689 weeks ago
The Hall is definitely a component at play. Duff even recognized that the award was a sham.
#185 Re: Guns N' Roses » RRHoF Discussion (Izzy/Slash/Axl Press Statements) » 689 weeks ago
Axlin12 wrote:AtariLegend wrote:Still not one post in this thread explains why the Hall Of Fame is so important. None of the classic line up seemed to care that much when interviewed pre nomination except Adler.
Going about Slash's interpetation that the Revolver Golden Gods is the great Amercian event. Anyone that thinks that the Hall Of Fame is anything more than PR event... well.
Even if Axl wasn't a nutter, what motivation is there to sit there for a few hours with 2 people he very much dislikes and in all honestly probably dislike him just as to give them an extra headline in the Entertainment news next week.
His letter was a bad choice as usual, but I'm more embarrassed by the fans in this thread. Most of us are disgruntled, but some of you people are alot more delusional than he is, if you believe the shit you come off with.
Symbolic
Is about the only word that comes to mind. I didn't lose sleep over the HOF, but I did hope that a mini-reunion (one night only) might've happened, just to appease the fans.
I think the symbolism of the word "Hall of Fame" means the crowning achievement for a rock musician, but the reality is Duff is right too, and I agree. "How can art be put in a Hall of Fame?" Rock HOF is about as legit as the WWE Hall of Fame. But at the same time -- it's symbolic.
Personally if I was a rockstar, I wouldn't want to be apart of it, and Cleveland and Wenner can suck my ass.
BUT the fans seem to be crazy about it, and it means something to them. So the motivation is simply to show solidarity and a respect to your fans worldwide, past, present & future.
Axl didn't do that. And ultimately THAT is how history will write this moment. Whether I agree with it, you do, or don't or whatever... history will write the moment as such.
Amen bro, spot on.
I don't understand.
If that is the price he must pay to gain respect of the fans, then Axl will never have the respect of the fans. He doesn't want anything to do with these people (save Izzy, Dizzy, and Duff) at this point in his life.
Respect the man's feelings on this issue as any of us would respect yours.
For me, I would never take the stage with Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck under any circumstances. Even if it pleased some group of people. Everyone has their principles.
#186 Re: Guns N' Roses » RRHoF Discussion (Izzy/Slash/Axl Press Statements) » 689 weeks ago
killingvector wrote:Smoking Guns wrote:KV, give it up bro... This was bigger than Axl, he is a little bitch for making this about him and not the fans.
No, bro.
It really isn't.
The induction is just being blown out of proportion.
Even Duff doesn't think the award was a big deal.
No it's not really a big deal. It seriously isn't.
But fans thinks it is, that's the whole point.
That's why Duff is going.
Axl has his own principles and being on stage with people he does not like and only need him for a pay day is not what he wants to do.
More power to him.
I'm still pissed at Slash's arrogance. The Blues Baller has mellowed but not apologized for more than a decade of twat behavior.
#187 Re: Guns N' Roses » RRHoF Discussion (Izzy/Slash/Axl Press Statements) » 689 weeks ago
killingvector wrote:Duff and Axl spoke. There is a great chance that Duff apologized for participating. Perhaps they were Slash driven suits.
This above is also a big assumption.
killingvector wrote:I argue that these suits are one of the most significant obstacles to a reconciliation b/c they threatened to soil Axl's reputation and take his livelihood.
Probably, but this is also an assumption.
killingvector wrote:I really don't know b/c none of us were privy to the conversation.
I agree with you that none of really know the facts, so these assumptions are just that.
.
I think those are not big, but rather very reasonable assumptions.
#188 Re: Guns N' Roses » RRHoF Discussion (Izzy/Slash/Axl Press Statements) » 689 weeks ago
killingvector wrote:What was your opinion of the two lawsuits Slash and Duff fired at Axl a few years back. The first alleged that Axl's current partnership and $20mil publication deal should be nullified, effectively taking the name from him. The second was an allegation of theft and fraud when ASCAP deposited funds into Axl's Black Frog publication arm by mistake.
I don't know the back story to that, but it can't have been so bad, as Axl is ok with Duff and he was involved
And if Axl is refusing to go forward with the new band (something he thinks a one off reunion will further hinder), I don't think that he is any more deserving of the name 'Guns N' Roses' than Slash and Duff are.
That is a big assumption. Duff and Axl spoke. There is a great chance that Duff apologized for participating. Perhaps they were Slash driven suits. I really don't know b/c none of us were privy to the conversation.
I argue that these suits are one of the most significant obstacles to a reconciliation b/c they threatened to soil Axl's reputation and take his livelihood.
Slash has made some terrible statements about Axl over the course of the last 15 years. Lies about the band's breakup, rumor mongering on Axl's progress on Chinese (remember the 'only two songs are done' bullshit), and, of course, lying about his midnight visit.
#189 Re: Guns N' Roses » RRHoF Discussion (Izzy/Slash/Axl Press Statements) » 689 weeks ago
The fact that Axl thinks that reuniting with the original lineup to accept an award for one night, will hinder the new band, is laughable. The new band needs to do more than release one album in nearly 20 years, and stop touring off old songs. Hell, even CD is getting old. Get these new guys into a studio and kick our asses with some new music or shut the fuck up with your excuses.
What a fuckin pathetic old man Axl Rose is. To NOT accept this award is an insult to the fans that made him and the rest of the guys millionaires. And it's that same success that even allows him to tour in any version of Guns N' Roses that exists today.
I never thought I'd say this, but a big FUCK YOU Axl Rose.
Fucking pathetic.
What was your opinion of the two lawsuits Slash and Duff fired at Axl a few years back. The first alleged that Axl's current partnership and $20mil publication deal should be nullified, effectively taking the name from him. The second was an allegation of theft and fraud when ASCAP deposited funds into Axl's Black Frog publication arm by mistake.
#190 Re: Guns N' Roses » RRHoF Discussion (Izzy/Slash/Axl Press Statements) » 689 weeks ago
I hear what you are saying, but Axl has done just as much from what I can see and still does. He called him a cancer not too long ago. MSL even said in his phone calls with Beta a couple of years ago that she spent most of her time ranting about Slash. On the rare occasions Axl speaks he usually cant help but include snide comments about Slash amongst his bile. He just can't seem to let go of the animosity. As Canter says, it can't be good for him mentally.
Slash is no saint and he may have a public persona that says he has put things behind him yet behind the scenes is still being a cock. If he is then he plays the game better than Axl. But I honestly think Slash has largely moved on, particuarly with his hatred and animosity Sadly I can't say the same for Axl.
I think your last point may very well be very true.
There is probably a lot of stuff happening behind the scenes to which we are not privy. Back channel communications. Perhaps additional law suits which we did not know. Allegations made in court which were not publicly digestible.
I will give Slash this, he has mellowed in the past few years. But in Axl's mind, it was not sufficient to make emends for past sins.
