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#231 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 264 weeks ago
It falls back to this idealistic thing people that lean socialist always throw out there without any basis in reality. It would be great if all these things were possible - no war, everybody is rich, everything is clean energy, all services for everyone are free; but there's a reason they aren't and there's a reason socialism fails. Reality sucks, but we can't ignore it.
#232 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 264 weeks ago
Listen, I'd be thrilled to stay out of most of the international conflicts that we get into, so I'm certainly not an advocate of any of this. But the reality is we are the free world's police force whether we like it or not. That's why many of those countries don't spend like we do. If we didn't, they'd have no choice but to spend more.
People globally may view us negatively, but we get the first call from anyone facing issues they don't know how to solve regardless of what that issue is. You cannot expect us to bail countries out when they are in trouble then expect us to walk away allowing whatever it was to happen again. We're going to protect our interests. You can't have one without the other. Not the way things are now or have been since WWI. Regardless of why we were in the Middle East, just leaving wasn't an option. Obama wanted to do it and knew he couldn't. If we're going to be everybody's big brother, there's a cost that goes along with it.
#233 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 264 weeks ago
IRISH OS1R1S wrote:Randall Flagg wrote:Tony Blair was fully on board with Iraq, so if UK members solely blame America, they need to do some soul searching. But to answer your question, no. Plenty of Americans believe JFK wasn't killed by Oswald, LBJ and the gulf of tonkin, we didn't land on the moon, Nixon and watergate, Reagan created aids and the crack epidemic, Clinton and his numerous scandals, Bush and Iraq, Obama's numerous scandals (saying he didn't have scandals doesn't make it true) to include what we now know about FBI behavior related to Russia and Clinton, and everything Trump has done, are all icing on the cake and equally important. The reality is the American left wing has become more and more radical, abandoning reason. Republicans have mostly been anti-abortion, but Democrats have continued to march leftward. 10 years ago everyone agreed illegal immigrants shouldn't be allowed to enter the nation and stay, but somehow that position moved and if you disagree it's racist. Biden passed one of the toughest crime bills in American history, and all the mainstream candidates save Warren and Sanders have substantial records showing their "touch on crime" credentials, to include Klobuchar and Harris. American media is in open revolt against the current occupant of the White House and rushes to put stories forward that push that narrative. Fox News is just as bad, but compared to every other large outlet, it's not even a close comparison. These platforms have a near monopoly on information, and if they're pushing an agenda instead of reporting the facts (front page of yahoo today is trying to blame the riots on White Supremacist), reasonably informed people are going to hold their claims as suspect.
No doubt all those points are valid and I'm sure they contribute, but I think you are downplaying the effect Iraq had. The worlds opinion drastically changed after that imo. It must have had a similar impact on some Americans no?
Agree with the British comment. Just to clarify Ireland is not part of the UK. We are a republic, independent.
Yes...i agree...And the fact that we’re still there and there really still is no clear objective really bothers me.
The reasons for going there and the objectives are still unknown to this day.
The massive military needs reasons to justify why it takes up 50-60 percent of the US federal budget. They do this by creating conflicts wherever they can.
Why didn't your boy Obama just pull everyone? Was he only interested in conflict as well?
#234 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 264 weeks ago
buzzsaw wrote:Not on a laptop so this won't be a long post, but what was the straw that broke the camel's back in US politics? The more I think about it (some "friends" were discussing on FB), the more I think it was the Clinton impeachment.
I think the economic policies under Reagan is where it really begins. That's when the system threw most overboard. I know he is heralded as a conservative hero...hell, I'll admit...he was witty and very articulate. But that's when the whole system started getting skewed. I think that's where the conservative 'tough guy' act started.
It's also where Republicans got this idea that running up massive deficits and cutting taxes at the same time was sound fiscal policy.
People ate that up though. Bush Sr lost (in my mind at least) because he promised no new taxes, realized that wasn't an option and lost because he raised taxes. Kind of like Obama promised to get out of the Middle East, then realized that wasn't possible. Sometimes things sound better than they actually are. If it came from a politician, it's almost certainly the case.
If you go back and look, every time the party holding the presidency lost, it was because something happened; not because the other side earned it. This is extremely simplified and 100% from memory (which could be wrong):
Carter - Iran
Bush Sr - no new taxes
Clinton - well...I actually liked him for the most part but obviously he had some issues
Bush Jr - Middle East burnout
Obama - healthcare (and an equally bad Democratic nominee).
Trump - he's his own worst enemy...if he could keep his mouth shut he'd have won in a landslide...now he could lose to a candidate with diminished mental capacity
How in the world can we not do better than Trump, Clinton, and now Biden? I mean seriously. Obama for his faults (and he did have some) was at least Presidential.
#235 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 264 weeks ago
Completely disagree with comparing what happened to that man and what happens during war. Even if someone is breaking a curfew they still have rights and cops have no right to assault a man unless he is resisting or a threat and that was assault regardless if he tripped after.
Here's where some context matters. I don't have the numbers to prove it, but I believe more and more of our police force is former military. They are conditioned differently and when it's life and death, you ask questions later. I would imagine it's very hard to turn that mentality off. I'm not at all saying it's right, and I'm definitely not excusing what happened in that situation, but I do think it's some of the problem.
Cops get paid next to nothing for risking their lives. The only other place I can think of where that happens is the military.
#236 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 264 weeks ago
Not on a laptop so this won't be a long post, but what was the straw that broke the camel's back in US politics? The more I think about it (some "friends" were discussing on FB), the more I think it was the Clinton impeachment.
#237 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 264 weeks ago
Update: Thankfully he is alive and currently in hospital.
What's worse is there are hundreds more videos just as bad and worse been put up on twitter. Fucked up.
Twitter is a cesspool. Technically I have an account but it is 100% automated. I haven't actually posted on there in at least 8 years.
There's no excuse for a lot of things including this one, but at the same time things are posted without full context all the time. I caution against assuming things like this are the norm.
Worse than that apparently they are improving AI technology to be able to eventually post things that didn't even happen. Let that sink in for a bit.
#238 Re: The Garden » Covid 19 » 264 weeks ago
It's amazing how little we still know...
#239 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 264 weeks ago
It's because we're not face to face, we lose nuance, sarcasm, and a lot of times, some decency. We don't have the chance to laugh, smile, and all that shit. The screen is a barrier. It's why Twitter is a cesspool. No one would speak that way to each other in real life... At least, the majority wouldn't. We're not arguing with a person but, sometimes, a pretty eneloquent post of thought. It's good to take a breath before responding.
There's truth to this for sure. I think some of that is because when you're talking to someone or a group of people, you can correct a misunderstanding of what was said immediately. Once someone thinks something was said (when it wasn't), it's hard for them to let go of it. It's also harder to admit you're wrong when you hold onto being wrong for so long.
Nobody likes being wrong, but all of us are from time to time. Unless one of us isn't human...
#240 Re: The Garden » Covid 19 » 264 weeks ago
What a world we live in.
Spend months wearing masks and gloves going out, shaming people for having the gall to take a walk, shaming people who want it to end, and now we've got riots and looting nationwide thanks to some cops killing a black guy.
Not only is there little shaming of this shit, they're getting a free pass on the lack of masks and social distancing.
What was turning into the crisis of the century may become a faded memory thanks to a new, huge dose of outrage porn.
If they're going to allow all this shit... just open everything back up.
I'm still wearing my mask and gloves. I went shopping earlier. I was in the minority. I looked like an idiot.
The media and the masses have moved on to the next crisis. Like I said....just open it back up and let nature take its course. 1 out of every 10 people now wearing a mask isn't helping jack shit.
When historians look back on this bizarre chapter of our history, they're going to realize we virtually caused a depression for nothing.
The world has gone mad.
Edit:
When I said "for nothing", I didn't mean that the virus isn't serious.... obviously it is.
Good to see you make a appearance. Hope you're doing well.
This is more or less it. It's serious for a portion of the population and something the rest of the population should be aware of as they were with the multitude of other pandemics, but instead of protecting them we created a disaster for the rest of the population and small business owners.