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#241 Re: The Garden » Covid 19 » 264 weeks ago

slashsfro wrote:

I'm going to disagree here with James a little.  Depending on where you live, this is still a big deal.  Florida just had 1,300 new cases and I think Wisconsin had an uptick in cases the other day.

The guy that has been doing the modeling that I follow said it's basically done.  There are some hot spots that flare up, but generally anything you see now is either as a result of more testing, a nursing facility getting hit, or data playing catch up as not all states have been current on their data.

There are so many reasons this has been a clusterfuck in the US from the beginning (I'm not even going to touch the horrible leadership at both the national and state levels), and the biggest is that we've been making decisions without any data and the little bit of data that we did have wasn't complete and certainly wasn't collected consistently across the board.  I believe that we have the ability to make good decisions when we have good data, but something goes horribly wrong when we don't. 

When you start asking people to guess what might happen and use those guesses to set policy, you're doomed to failure.  The right questions weren't asked when looking at what was going on around the world.  Yes, a lot of people were dying in places like Italy, but who and why?  Didn't matter I guess.  I guess it's okay to make life changing decisions for people without having enough information to do so.  Logic be damned, we're going to make all decisions based on emotions and fear...and that is exactly why we are where we are now.

Lock up the nursing homes and hospitals.  That's what I said in the beginning.  When asked what they would do differently in Sweden in retrospect, the answer was protect the nursing facilities better than they did because that's where 50% of their deaths came from.  Is there any country where the majority of the deaths weren't from nursing/long term care facilities?  Is there any doubt that had we protected them better, the death toll/rate would be much lower?  Please tell me there's not a single person that doesn't agree with this.

#242 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 264 weeks ago

Well, get used to same old same old then.  I gave you an out and you're just going to mitch it away.  So be it.

#243 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 264 weeks ago

mitchejw wrote:

Yea...I mean...see...there's no ownership. I'm the problem. I've always been the problem...I'll always be the problem.

This is why I have such a hard time forgiving and forgetting.

I've told you for years to own it mitch.  Sometimes the shoe fits.  Nobody else has gone after people for saying things they didn't say anywhere near as much as you have.  You read part of what someone says and just run what you think they were saying.  You either lack reading comprehension or you don't actually read what people write.  You constantly misrepresent what someone said and then belittle them for the opinion you put on them instead of what they said.  We're not randomly accusing you of it and you won't find a single person defending you on that point even if they agree with your political leanings because you do it.  It's been shown you do it several times.  You've done it far more times than people have said you did.

If you want to be mad at me about what I said, I have no problem with that.  Russ and I got into it for years about Finck and we are good friends to this day.  He never misrepresented what I said.  I was cool with Bono getting banned and we had beers together in Vegas at a GnR meet up.  I own what I said; I'll never allow you to twist it into something else.  Never.  There will never be peace between us until you accept that and stop doing it.

#244 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 264 weeks ago

IRISH OS1R1S wrote:

Buzz, I think you see things too black and white (on the board) sometimes and if anyone disagrees you see red. You got upset that I disagreed with your opinion on isolation, but you missed that other than that I agreed with what you were saying.

Anyway, reset.

That's kind of funny as I see things more gray than anyone, which is why mitch keeps accusing me of not taking a position on anything.  My reviews at work for the past ten years praise my dealing with ambiguity.  I see both sides way more than you think...according to some that's a weakness.  Interesting feedback though.

#245 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 264 weeks ago

Done - not even interested in the mitch bullshit that's coming. 

Have we turned the ignore feature back on?

#246 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 264 weeks ago

And interestingly enough, the people that do know me know I am very quiet and reserved.  So think about how much bullshit mitch would have had to have done over the years to get a reaction out of me.  I'm so even most people check to see if I have a pulse.  It's why I'm good at poker.  I don't have to act even.  I am even.  It takes a lot to get me to speak up; it takes more than that for me to be in attack mode on someone.

#247 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 264 weeks ago

IRISH OS1R1S wrote:

For the record, I don't know buzz personally, I don't hate him or anything. My issue is and always has been the attitude in threads. If I'm not responding to a post I'm usually posting positively. Water under the bridge with me. I don't hold grudges.

For the record, I didn't report your homophobic comment or whatever you want to call it that makes it somehow okay. 

My only issue is mitch constantly claiming people said things they didn't say, then attacking them for what he made up that they said.  The one time I took the time to go back and prove to him I didn't say that, his excuse was "well that's how I interpreted it" - that's completely disingenuous and not someone at all interested in meaningful conversation.  So I am going to continue to beat him over the head every time he does it because he refuses to stop and others just let him get away with it.  Mitch is a troll.  There's no other logical explanation for him that isn't far more insulting.

He says the right things but every action says he's full of shit.  When mitch was gone, things were fine.  A little boring, but fine.  Not a coincidence.  You HAVE to agree with mitch or you are the enemy.  Doesn't matter the subject; doesn't matter how many parts of it you agree with.  It's all or nothing.  When I take a stand on racisim and in that same post predict that someone is going to say I didn't take a stand, along comes mitch saying exactly that. 

I'm a dick to mitch because that's all he deserves.  He doesn't like that I don't agree with anything he says and I end up being right so often.  I get it...that sucks.  Part of why that happens is because I don't just spew stuff.  I think it through; I research.  Mostly I just think it through and use some common sense.  I know a little bit about a lot of things.  I get bored too easily to be great at anything.  I don't say things if I haven't done at least some homework. 

Every once in a while I'm wrong.  We'll find out eventually if Sweden is one of those times.  I'm not wrong often because I choose to have an opinion on so little.  If I have one, I've probably checked it out and not on CNN or Fox News.

#248 Re: The Garden » Covid 19 » 264 weeks ago

buzzsaw wrote:

On my phone so can't link the article but Sweden's chief epidemiologist says in hindsight they should have done more but still not as much as was done elsewhere.

https://madison.com/news/world/scientis … kuVDkYwvmQ

STOCKHOLM (AP) — Sweden's chief epidemiologist on Wednesday defended his country's controversial coronavirus strategy, which avoided a lockdown but resulted in one of the highest per capita COVID-19 death rates in the world.

Anders Tegnell of the Public Health Agency denied that “the Swedish strategy was wrong and should be changed. That’s not the case."

“We still believe that our strategy is good, but there is always room for improvement. ... You can always get better at this job,” Tegnell told a news conference in Stockholm.

Sweden has stood out among European nations and the world for the way it has handled the pandemic, not shutting down the country or the economy like other nations but relying on citizens’ sense of civic duty. Swedish authorities have advised people to practice social distancing, but schools, bars and restaurants have been kept open the entire time. Only gatherings of more than 50 people have been banned.

Tegnell's statement to reporters came after more contrite comments earlier in the day to Swedish radio in which he said “I think there is potential for improvement in what we have done in Sweden, quite clearly.”

Asked if the country’s high death toll has made him reconsider his unique approach to the pandemic, Tegnell told Swedish radio “yes, absolutely.”


According to the national health agency, Sweden, a nation of 10.2 million people, has seen 4,542 deaths linked to COVID-19, which is far more than its Nordic neighbors and one of the highest per capita death rates in the world. Denmark has had 580 coronavirus deaths, Finland has seen 320 and Norway has had 237, according to a tally by Johns Hopkins University.

“If we were to encounter the same disease again, knowing precisely what we know about it today, I think we would settle on doing something in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done,” Tegnell, considered the architect of the unique Swedish pandemic approach, told SR.

In these challenging times, our local businesses need your support. Find out how to get food, goods, services and more from those remaining open.

Still, authorities in Sweden, including Tegnell, have been criticized — and some have apologized — for failing to protect the country's elderly and nursing home residents.

But Tegnell said Wednesday it was still unclear what the country should have done differently. He also said other nations are unable to tell exactly what measures affected the outcomes of their outbreaks because they threw everything at the crisis at once.

“Maybe we know that now, when you start easing the measures, we could get some kind of lesson about what else, besides what we did, you could do without a total shutdown,” Tegnell said in the radio interview.

At the news conference, Tegnell made it clear that his previous statement “was an admission that we always can become better. I’m sure my colleagues all over the world would say the same thing. There are always aspects which we could have handled this situation even better than we do today, now, as we learn more and more things,” he told The Associated Press.


“Sometimes I feel like a personal punchbag, but that’s OK. I can live with that,” Tegnell added.

Sweden's COVID-19 infection rate of 43.2 deaths per 100,000 inhabitants is lower than Spain's (58.1) and Italy's (55.4), but is higher than reported rates in the United States (32.1) and Brazil (14.3), according to Johns Hopkins University.

Last week, the country’s former state epidemiologist, Annika Linde, said in retrospect she believes an early lockdown could have saved lives in Sweden. Political pressure has also forced the Swedish government to speed up an investigation into the handling of the pandemic.

Ordinary Swedes are not sure what to think.

“I’m not walking around thinking that we have a real disaster here in Sweden,” Jan Arpi, a 58-year-old sales executive, told The Associated Press. “I think we have it more or less under control, but we have to be even more careful now after we learned how the virus is spread, especially among elderly people.”

Tegnell's pandemic tactics made Sweden a bit of a local pariah in the Nordics and didn't spare the Swedish economy.

Sweden's economy, which relies heavily on exports, is expected to shrink 7% in 2020 and the finance minister says the Scandinavian country is headed for “a very deep economic crisis.”


More than 76,000 people have been made redundant since the outbreak began and unemployment, which now stands at 7.9%, is expected to climb higher.

On the travel front, neighboring Norway and Denmark said they were dropping mutual border controls but would keep Sweden out of a Nordic “travel bubble.”

The Danes said they will reopen the border next month to residents of Germany, Norway and Iceland as the country eased its coronavirus lockdown. But Denmark, which has a bridge that goes directly into Sweden, has postponed a decision reopening to Swedish visitors until after the summer.

#249 Re: The Garden » Covid 19 » 264 weeks ago

On my phone so can't link the article but Sweden's chief epidemiologist says in hindsight they should have done more but still not as much as was done elsewhere.

#250 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 264 weeks ago

IRISH OS1R1S wrote:

Why don't you run to the admins and tell them like a good girl.

Lol.  Sleep tight.

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