You are not logged in. Please register or login.
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
#271 Re: Guns N' Roses » Bob Lefsetz: Best Buy Deal confirmed/Azoff response to leaks » 905 weeks ago
Lefsetz used to work in Sanctuary's American division, in a rather high position, I gather. As Sanctuary's now rolled into Universal, there you could have his little birdies as well.
Nice find--considering his back ground (including a recent well publicized skirmish with Kid Rock), he took it fairly easy on GN'R. No doubt, this guy is legit--he is friends with tthe heads of many record labels, and has been around the block countless times. He knows his stuff, and this Lefsetz Letter is well regarded and has a high readership in the iindustry. Confirmation from him, will most likely lead to official confirmation via Billboard or NY Times I would imagine, as this letter likely serves as a tip-sheet for rock journalists. Best Buy adverts for the MTV awards?
#272 Re: Guns N' Roses » Bob Lefsetz: Best Buy Deal confirmed/Azoff response to leaks » 905 weeks ago
On another point--one thing I agree with is that Axl needs his street cred back. Now, I do not believe Axl's cred is as damaged as some believe. In fact, I think he has an easy road to getting it back. He is still viewed as crazy as fuck--which is a huge plus for a rock star, the most important stair of the "street credibility" ladder. Secondly, he is viewed as "not giving a shit" at all about what others think. Again, very important. Third, he is viewed as anti-establishment, he does not bow down to any corporate bullshit. Again, very positive when it comes to street cred.
I believe, if Axl would for instance, do a free show in L.A. or New York, it would be big! At the show, reinforcing his street cred., he should rip into the big machine: "big oil, warrantless wiretaps, and just the "they're" ("they're" out to get me..they won't catch me"), it would go a long ways. Moreover, I think extending a big-time Olive branch to Skwerl, after they figure out who at Universal was fucking them over, would be big time. Also, posting a message with a free song or two (he can do one or two songs, with different outtakes, maybe let the fans judge which one they like best) on the website would be huge. Axl, can, and with Irving's guidance, should get his cred back. He still has much of it, just, folks need reminded he has it, instead of being reminded that yes while he is crazy (we like that), he is also living a life of luxury in a huge mansion with a bevy of assistants (we don't like). Again, come from the ground up. First some free shows, then some rough and tumble theatre shows, rip the the fucking system and powers that be whenever possible--which in the U.S. is really killing a bunch of people, and all of a sudden, the spirit of Appetite is alive and well. 2008, and 1988, socio-economically have much in common.
See, the statement below, is a perfect example of why Axl still has street cred:
"I will pay VH1 $2 million to leave me the f**k alone!'' Axl Rose
#273 Re: Guns N' Roses » Bob Lefsetz: Best Buy Deal confirmed/Azoff response to leaks » 905 weeks ago
Note to moderator: I was not reporting this, hit the wrong button.
Here's one problem, I have with Lefsetz--it seems he is celebrating the demise of the critic. Moreover, he is diminishing, way too much, the critics importance for "real"/hardcore music fans. I know certain critics I can trust, who have a command of rock history, an ear without prejudice, and a pen full of wit. I would argue, that the "demise" of the expert, is one of the problems with modern music--too many young fans not being guided to quality music, and the music which influenced their current favorite artists. A quality critic, and guide, can serve one well, when learning to appreciate art and music. It is not to be underestimated.
While I agree, there are many critics who work for the corporate media that have completely sold out, for "free tickets" as he says, there are also still great rock critics out there. It's real easy, as witnessed on mygnr, for one or two nihilistic blow-hards to say "it sucks" and then proceed to create hundreds of minions, false usernames, and basically shout down everyone with a different opinion than them. These nihilists also are those, who tend to frequent hundreds of messageboards, and due to their mental-internet madness, proceed to unleash their pent up anger, by destroying an artist for whatever reason. Too much importance, given to self-proclaimed experts, is ridiculous--if these folks would have real critics, who pointed them to real music, instead of the corporate media feed, they would "hear" the light. Instead, they just follow the Clear Channel feed, and defend the horrid modern rock, which is indistinguishable from the next band (hence Nickelback). My point is, trusted experts are needed--in many fields. Again, I am not talking about the hacks at the coporate mag's--who I agree, are hacks only in it for tickets and whatever else, and part of the problem. I am defending the Fricke's, Klosterman's, Lester Bang's, and Cameron Crowe's of this world--the real, true, rock critics. Maybe if Lefsetz would make that distinction, instead of throwing all the critics into one bunch, it would not come off as intellectual recklessness.
"Genius without education is like silver in the mine". Benjamin Franklin
#274 Guns N' Roses » Bob Lefsetz: Best Buy Deal confirmed/Azoff response to leaks » 905 weeks ago
- Bright Eyes 2005
- Replies: 98
I think Lefsetz has very valid points, and Irving Azoff does as well--regarding the leaks. My bet is Azoff has an online plan, as Lefsetz suggests. Azoff has another good point--the leaks were unfinished, and not in the "system" yet--in other words, GNR is going to play the online game, but they are going to deliver the media to the fans, and engage with the fans in their own fashion not Skwerls. Great insight, and realize, Lefsetz is a heavyweight, him and Irving Azoff know each other, and have mutual respect--hence the quick response by Azoff.
http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/index.php/ … -responds/
"You are missing the points on leaks. Once the album is delivered and in the pipeline the artist doesn't freak out. When it's a leak of a work in progress it's like photographing one of them in the nude that doesn't want to do that'¦ the gnr leaks were poor quality unmixed and unfinished." -Irving
http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/index.php/ … ore-g-n-r/
A little birdie told me the deal with Best Buy is done. All that's left to do is sign the contract.
Of all the marketing/distribution ideas I received in response to my missive, I'll only reveal one, that upon the album's release, Axl Rose should commit suicide.
This is brilliant insight. Nothing's a better story than the death of a cultural icon, especially one who flaunted convention. TV and print execute vigils, MTV shunts aside all programming but "The Hills" to show classic videos, and print runs endless tributes. We have public mourning that results in umpteen sales. Assuming there's enough product in the marketplace. At least John Lennon was smart enough to get shot just when his new album was released. Elvis croaked between album cycles, RCA had to run presses 24/7 to crank out albums and fulfill demand. A la Darby Crash, Axl could consort with his label, hinting/informing Jimmy Iovine of his plans, thus making sure enough of "Chinese Democracy" was shipped. Hell, what would happen if AC/DC died in a plane crash? Everybody would be wanting to click and buy at iTunes'¦ Just another reason why online trumps brick and mortar. There's endless inventory!
But that's not the only online revolution.
Catching up on last week's newspapers I read another story about the blogger arrested for airing "Chinese Democracy" on his site. I was stunned at the amount of blowback I've heard re this. It's kind of like "Bambi meets Godzilla". But worse, '˜cause in this case Bambi is friends with Godzilla, she's a fan.
Fans. They're the hardest thing to acquire. You can buy publicity, you can pay off distributors. There's mutual self-interest. You want to sell and they want to profit. Newspapers don't do stories on acts no one cares about, and television is only interested in stars. But fans are not doing business. There's no financial payoff for being a fan. It's an end-user application. You don't build up your fandom and sell it. You own it. At least until it fades away when the act does something heinous, like stand up to Napster.
That's haunting Metallica nearly a decade out. Metallica was right, but their fans thought they were wrong. And you always want to come out on the side of your fans. Metallica has learned its lesson. But the record labels have not.
But they truly don't understand the vast sea change in exhibition and the building of acts in the future. In the future, radio and television will mean ever less. In today's "New York Times", even Frank Rich laments that newspapers and the network news may not have much of a place in the next election cycle. In order to survive in the music business in the future you must cultivate fan dedication, you must investigate and ultimately invade the online world. Because that's where fans are made today. What mainstream media does build up is not career acts, but the equivalent of wrecks on the freeway, which many want to slow down and marvel at, but soon forget.
Will the "Chinese Democracy" leaks hinder sales of the approved product when it's finally released?
It comes down to one thing and one thing only. Fan perception as to its quality.
That's what mainstream media companies don't like. Not only is their marketing ineffective, if it reaches the target audience at all, but their trusted minions, the critics they wine and dine and have symbiotic relationships with, have been wiped clean from the landscape, if not in numbers, then effectiveness.
Why listen to the fat cat critic making beaucoup bread who gets to see the movie for free when the audience, with no investment other than a good viewing experience, will let you know how good the flick is before you've left school for the day, before you've decided what flick to see that evening, if any at all?
Same deal with music. Every act says its new record is the best thing it's ever done. The critic wants free concert tickets. What do your peers, the fans think? If "Chinese Democracy" gets a thumbs up, the blogosphere goes wild, the online buzz is palpable, and the album sells. If the record gets a thumbs down, then you can sell it for a week at most, to those completely out of the loop and dedicated fans, then NEXT!
The point is, the labels now have the legal power to stop pre-releases, but is this now an anachronistic power? When top down marketing is becoming passe and acts are owned by their fans? I'm not saying music should be free, but where in the food chain do you charge? Music is the driver. The more people who own it and listen to it, the more money that will rain down from ancillaries, like live, touring, ringtones'¦ You can't cut music exhibition off at the source, this is the key to your success! Radio airplay is not going to build your career act, only the online community will. How do you get surfers on your side?
By giving more, not less. By being humble, by admitting that you're their ultimate servant. Or, by being obstinate, saying you don't care if people like you or not. But you can't have it both ways like Axl Rose. I want to fuck you in the ass AND THEN I want you to buy my album!
#275 Re: Guns N' Roses » Slash's Reaction to GN'R leaker!!!! » 906 weeks ago
I like Slash's comment, and do not read too much into it. I would imagine 99% of artists, while they do not mind file-sharing of "all-Ready released material", are against the leakage of "yet to be released material"--big difference there. Moreover, I think him and Axl have both let much of the animosity which was once there go--time heals wounds.
#276 Re: Guns N' Roses » **Kevin Cogill Who Leaked 9 GnR Songs Arrested Today** » 906 weeks ago
This music, be it a note, a demo, or whatever format it is in is is copyrighted and protected by Universal, and Axl and Universal's joint publishing venture Uzi Suicide.
#277 Guns N' Roses » Slash's Reaction to GN'R leaker!!!! » 906 weeks ago
- Bright Eyes 2005
- Replies: 63
"I hope he rots in jail," said Slash, the former Guns N' Roses lead guitarist. "It's going to affect the sales of the record, and it's not fair. The Internet is what it is, and you have to deal with it accordingly, but I think if someone goes and steals something, it's theft."
#278 Re: Guns N' Roses » Paul Tobias/Mank Rage » 906 weeks ago
misterID wrote:I think RTB left/was let go without doing anything to the album, didn't he?
He was with the band for, what, 20 months. He was finishing tracks with Tom Zutaut in late 2001.
The band's work was mostly done, I surmise, and that may be the reason why a new producer was never called in full-time. It was the UYI situation; Axl was set out to do additional production and vocals after the basic tracks were done with Mike Clink. Clink was around to organize additional backing track recording on the road et al, but Axl was with his own devices for a good while. I also understand that when they got around to mixing it, it wasn't a producer-centered field of work anymore.
There were no orchestrations by Buckmaster or Beltrami issued during Beavan's or RTB's era. It was an Axl thing. Fortus did some work over Paul Huge's parts and some solos, Ron did some work over Paul Huge's/Fortus' parts and some solos. However, I do hope Axl's spent the time in between late '02 and late '07 (when CD was said to be completed) actually working on the so-called follow-up albums.
Otherwise the last five years are pretty hard to justify in terms of finishing touches.
I think the band had another creative period in 2004-2006. For instance, Axl said on Eddie Trunk in 2006, they were "working on a new song" in rehearsals, and he mentioned during the Manchester show, prior to IRS, that Richard was writing songs last night, while Axl was trying to make some babe he met. I also think Ron must have sent them some material when he was initially in, in late 2004, but leaked news to the press, thus delaying his entry to the band. I also know Axl and Izzy shared some stuff during this period, while they were rekindling their relationship. I think their will definitely be some Izzy stuff on at least one of the upcoming CD's. Izzy writes a lot, and I am sure has sent over tons of songs and ideas to Axl during the past 12 years.
#279 Re: Guns N' Roses » **Kevin Cogill Who Leaked 9 GnR Songs Arrested Today** » 906 weeks ago
The question, or argument some make as to somehow there needed to be validation this was copyrighted material, I believe is making a more complicated technicality of something very simple.
GNR's ownership, and copyright of this material is implicit. Virtually everyone knows this is copyrighted material, thus the description, now a noun, calling these "leaks". Moreover, due to GN'R's high profile, unlike a local band, it is almost common sense that this is copyrighted material. Very simply, we all know it, thus easily proven in court,--this is GN'R's material, art, from an unreleased album named Chinese Democracy. Skwerl himself delivered a description stating this on his website, the day he leaked the material. Another point, again, this looks like it was stolen from Universal. If Universal had it, and their business is distributing music, then that proves that this material was intended for release.
Again, the level that the RIAA went after this, I believe, is directly related to him stating he used to work for "Universal Distribution" in news interviews the day this leaked. If one was caught forging money, it is a crime; but once one states they worked for the U.S. Mint, it quickly becomes a far more serious crime.
Now, the I do wonder (big time wonder, borderline conspiracy theory with little evidence), has anyone seen any news stories with Universal commenting? We have seen Front Line comment, but not Universal. There is an outside shot that if the leak was generated through Universal (willingly or unwillingly), they could be in a bit of a pickle when negotiating with GNR and Frontline--concessions could, or may have to be made. That though, is an outside shot.
#280 Re: Guns N' Roses » **Kevin Cogill Who Leaked 9 GnR Songs Arrested Today** » 906 weeks ago
GNR had NOTHING to do with Skwerl getting arrested.
Thats not a fact. Its an assumption. You make your points well enough without having to point out everything you say is 100% true and factual.
Fact: once he wrote a letter confessing his guilt, the Fed's had no choice but to prosecute.
Thats not a fact. The Feds have many choices, and chasing down random bloggers who stream ancient demos is just one of those choices.
I agree that the guy so openly leaking stuff and admitting to everything but the JFK assassination pretty much sealed his fate regarding potential heat, but the people on the other side of the fence had a choice in the matter.
The only other reason, would be, that Azoff has figured out through a private investigation that Fernando is the source, and knows he must drive them out of the picture for this thing to get going. I highly doubt this.
I doubt that as well, but Azoff is smart enough to know this was an internal leak from Axl's inner circle.
Sorry, the people blaming Axl yesterday for this are completely out of touch with reality.
No its called having an opinion thats different than yours. If anyone is "out of touch with reality", its those who think a copyright infringement lawsuit can move forward without zero say by the owner(s) of the copyright.
Cogill is charged with one count of violating Title 17, United States Code Section, 506 (a) (1) (C). The copyright infringement charge is related pre-released material, "distribution of a work being prepared for commercial distribution by making it available on a computer network accessible to members of the public."
Note to Cogill and his attorney: There's your loophole. Guns N Roses and Uni have to actually prove that the songs were "being prepared for commercial distribution".
I can see the judge now.....
"You say Chinese Democracy starts now? Where's the beef?"
Once a federal law was broken, then the prosecutor had no choice but to proceed. State law gives some leeway involving minor, civil type issues (bar fights, if no major injuries were observed, being one example). Again, Axl had nothing to do with Skwerl being charged. The RIAA, FBI, and Universal did not need Axl to tell them that antiquiet.com leaked nine new GNR songs. It was only on every major news station, news website, and radio station in the world for 48 straight hours, repeating by the hour.
I suppose, though, that someone saying the world is flat is just expressing an opinion? I say they are wrong, or insane, or, most likely both. Axl had nothing to do with Skwerl's arrest and indictment, that happened on it's own. Moreover, the world is round.
