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#281 Re: Guns N' Roses » **Kevin Cogill Who Leaked 9 GnR Songs Arrested Today** » 906 weeks ago

--GNR had NOTHING to do with Skwerl getting arrested.  Fact:  once he wrote a letter confessing his guilt, the Fed's had no choice but to prosecute.  James, AT THAT POINT IT DID NOT MATTER IF THE PRESIDENT CALLED--NO ONE CAN STOP A CRIMINAL PROSECUTION ONCE ITS ESTABLISHED THE LAW IS BROKEN.  HOW MANY WIVES TRY TO STOP TRIALS FOR THEIR HUSBANDS THAT HAVE BEATEN THEM?  SADLY, MANY, BUT THEY CANNOT STOP THE LAW.  That is fact, that is how it works, I hope you never find out the hard way.  If it makes you feel better, to continue to post bogus information, then so be it.  Now GNR has said, we don't support him leaking, but are interested in the source.  Yes, collectively GNR and Universal want to find out the source, because it was from an employee of Universal.  Just like the CIA must find a mole, Universal must find the leaker (more than just GNR has leaked recently from Universal) in their Distribution department.  Does that make sense--it should.

--The only other reason, would be, that Azoff has figured out through a private investigation that Fernando is the source, and knows he must drive them out of the picture for this thing to get going.  I highly doubt this.  I am sure they need to get to the bottom of who at Universal is the mole--so the company can protect their content going forward.

Sorry, the people blaming Axl yesterday for this are completely out of touch with reality.  He had no control over Skwerls reckless actions which led to his arrest.  Think of it (story below), did Axl hypnotize this guy, and convince him to give the FBI a written confession to illegally distributing copyrighted content?

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/0 … er-co.html

FBI: Uploader Confesses to Pre-releasing Guns N' Roses Tracks
By David Kravets EmailAugust 28, 2008 | 6:45:07 PM

Gnr The California man arrested Wednesday for allegedly uploading pre-released Gun N' Roses songs to his blog has provided a "typed, signed confession" to the FBI, according to court records unveiled Thursday.

What's more, the investigation into to the Culver City man began last month after the Recording Industry Association of America tipped off the authorities, wrote Jensen Penalosa, an FBI agent in a filing in Los Angeles federal court made available Thursday.

Kevin Cogill, aka Skwerl, uploaded the nine songs on June 18, according to the affidavit, which was the basis for Cogill's arrest at his apartment. A day after the uploading, according to the affidavit, (.pdf) an RIAA investigator alerted the FBI, Penalosa said.

"Cogill provided a typed, signed confession which stated that he had posted the unreleased Guns N' Roses songs to the internet on his web site www.antiquiet.com," Penalosa wrote.

Cogill did not return e-mail or telephone messages seeking comment.

Cogill is charged with one count of violating Title 17, United States Code Section, 506 (a) (1) (C). The copyright infringement charge is related pre-released material, "distribution of a work being prepared for commercial distribution by making it available on a computer network accessible to members of the public."

The charge is a "felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than three years or, if the offense was committed for commercial advantage or private financial gain, for not more than five years."

According to court records, the antiquiet music-review site crashed because there were so many hits.The affidavit also says the nine recordings have been removed from the site, which does not appear to be operational at this time.

Photo dave1968's photostream

#282 Re: Guns N' Roses » **Kevin Cogill Who Leaked 9 GnR Songs Arrested Today** » 906 weeks ago

war wrote:

i will say again gnr could turn this to their advantage. they are already getting more free press for a release if they act with it now and they can still come out looking like the good guys on this story. all they have to do is make a statment favoring leniency in the criminal case and simply mention that they do not intend to file a civil suit.

Quite simply, that is exactly what will happen.  GN'R will not pursue a civil suit.

#284 Re: Guns N' Roses » **Kevin Cogill Who Leaked 9 GnR Songs Arrested Today** » 906 weeks ago

Alas, Wired details the full story--GNR has nothing to do with the criminal side, but could (not likely) pursue the Civil side.  Quit blaming the band:

http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/08/gun … es-le.html

The feds may have their hooks into him, but Guns 'N Roses leaker Kevin Cogill's real headache is still the band. Chances of him getting any jail time are slim, but Guns 'N Roses could bankrupt him -- if they want to.

"There's a specific law, the Family Entertainment and Copyright Act, that deals specifically with pre-release material -- the rationale being that it prevents the owner of the copyright from getting the first release," says entertainment lawyer Howard Rubin, a partner at Goetz & Fitzpatrick in New York. "The first release is always the one that's going to get the most profit for the person who owns the copyright. To take that first opportunity from someone is more serious, and is usually pursued criminally to try to prevent that (from happening again)."

Cogill could face both criminal charges from the federal government and a civil copyright infringement suit from the Guns 'N Roses camp. The criminal charges, which have already been filed, could cost Cogill $250,000 and up to three years in jail. Civil charges brought by Guns 'N Roses could prove more costly, even in the absence of any actual damage to the band. Statutory damages for releasing the material with intent or malice are up to $150,000 per song, for a total that could exceed $1.3 million.

Cogill could end up owing even if he shows that his leak of the songs actually helped the Guns 'N Roses' bottom line by generating press coverage for the band. The statutory damages do not take into account whether any actual damage was done -- only that the infringement was intentional or malicious, which Rubin says would be relatively easy for Guns 'N Roses' lawyers to prove.

So far, evidence points towards leniency, as far as the federal case goes. Especially important, according to Rubin, is the fact that the feds released Cogill on a signature bond, which means he didn't have to put up any money, but rather agreed to pay a $10,000 fine if he misses his preliminary hearing on September 17. If the feds were looking to prosecute Cogill to the maximum extent of the law, he said, Cogill's bail situation would have been more severe.

"In my opinion, and I'm assuming it's his first offense," says Rubin, "I wouldn't expect significant jail time, but I would expect a fine and some jail time. It's a felony, not a misdemeanor, and the federal courts have guidelines depending on how much profit was made, the seriousness of the crime and whether the person cooperated," adding, "He may end up getting probation; I would be shocked if he got anywhere near three years in prison."

Assuming the federal case goes as smoothly as Rubin expects, the next potential threat to Cogill comes in the form of a civil suit from Guns 'N Roses (right), with those potential $1.3 million or so in statutory damages. However, the band may not want to risk becoming the next Metallica.

"The band is in the position now where they can start a civil action, and they would be successful," says Rubin, "But how are their fans feeling about this? They'll have their own public relations issues as to whether they're going to start an action here."


The band will not benefit financially from the criminal suit, so if Axel and co. want compensation, it'll have to come from a civil suit -- regardless of any potential backlash. But Cogill, a 27-year-old Los Angeles web designer, most likely cannot pay the full extent of the damages. "What does this guy have in terms of assets?," he asked. "What can they collect?"   

In his initial post with a link to the .zip file, which he took down after receiving a cease and desist letter, Cogill said that one reason he leaked the tracks was that Guns 'N Roses had apparently hoarded them for so long.

"I always said that the more that Axl and Geffen jerked around trying to figure out how to release this finally finished album that we've all been waiting over 13 years for," he wrote, "the greater the chances would be that it would slip out of a pressing plant or office somewhere and wind up in the hands of some asshole with a blog. So... Hey, I told you so."

#285 Re: Guns N' Roses » **Kevin Cogill Who Leaked 9 GnR Songs Arrested Today** » 906 weeks ago

The RIAA is acting under an agreement they made with Universal, Warner, etc. years ago.  This has much more to do with the labels full roster, and not GNR.  You guy's are missing a major point, once it was determined this was leaked out of Universal, then GNR had no control over the subsequent events.  This is a major threat to the label, and a warning shot to potential leakers with all of the huge releases coming this Fall.  Sure, they were informed of this, but once he told the Fed's he leaked it, neither the RIAA, Universal, or GNR could do anything.  The Federal Prosecutor's duty--by law--is to prosecute crimes.

Much of the anger here, should be directed at the RIAA and the labels agreement, not GNR.  For God's sake, it's AMAZING THAT NO ONE HAS BEEN PROSECUTED FOR ALL OF THE LEAKS OF THEIR MATERIAL OVER THE PAST TEN YEARS, INCLUDING THE ILLUSION OUTTAKES.  IF GNR WERE BEHIND THIS, THIS WOULD HAVE HAPPENED YEARS AGO.

#286 Re: Guns N' Roses » **Kevin Cogill Who Leaked 9 GnR Songs Arrested Today** » 906 weeks ago

Mikkamakka wrote:
russtcb wrote:
Mikkamakka wrote:

To those who claim the guy deserved what he got, it was stolen property etc... Have you guys downloaded these leaks? Cause you surely knew it was copyrighted AND stolen material. So you got something illegal and you knew it but didn't care. We'e all guilty if Axl & Co thinks that the some thousand remaining internet nerds, us, are guilty cause we wanna hear those 'earth-shattering' tracks. I bet that 99% of the people who downloaded these songs will (would...) buy the record, so there was no financial loss. They lost their last pieces of credibility and now it's impossible to believe they don't threat fans like enemies.

They didn't lose any credibility with me because I didn't jump to any conclusions and blame the band for something the FBI and RIAA did.

We all know what happened between MSL and the Axl camp. It's hard to believe they don't have a hand in this theatrical arrest. They wanna frighten the fans, that's it. Last time I checked people uploaded tons of material using their own IP, yet the US prisons aren't full of them. It was a direct action. Anyway, I can be wrong, but their reaction on the official site tells me they're happy with the arrest.

No, this one was out of GNR's hands.  That is a fact, that is missed by 70% of you here.  This was the RIAA, acting under an agreement with the record labels.  Moreover, once the guy said he did it, the Fed's had no choice to prosecute--GNR had no say whatsoever in this, and most likely did not know he was going to be prosecuted, until the Fed's informed him they were.  Again, quit attacking the band for something they had not part in.  What's next, are you going to attack someone who's house was robbed, because their house was robbed, and the thief then self-publicized the event online and was subsequently arrested? 

The case represents "the beginning of an effort to be more aggressive," said Kathy Loedler, the RIAA's director of investigations for the western region, adding that the industry wanted to add bite to its existing strategy. "When we tell somebody to just take it down and there's no penalty, there's no arrest, there's no fine, it's very easy for them to continue to do it."

Assistant U.S. Attorney Craig Missakian said the RIAA had alerted the Department of Justice to the case, and he planned to prosecute similar cases as they arose. "We take this type of crime very seriously," he said.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1219891 … lenews_wsj

#287 Re: Guns N' Roses » **Kevin Cogill Who Leaked 9 GnR Songs Arrested Today** » 906 weeks ago

I will try to explain one more time, but some of you, it seems come to this board to not only perpetuate lies, but also to attack the band which you must enjoy, which is implicit in your visitation to this board.  Here are the facts:

--GN'R had nothing, nothing to do with this legal matter--besides being ripped off.  They did not make the decision to try and get commercial publicity for his website by posting the songs. 

--The RIAA (note Wall Street Journal Article) has a team, that had to pursure these instances, due to an agreement they made in 2005 with the record industry.

--Nothing would have happened, had he not been associated with Universal--that opened up liability for Universal, and they have to protect their contracts with other artists.

--This case is not about GN'R, and is about copyright in general--there are thousands of bands involved in this, it's just this self-publicized leak perpetuated a prosectution.

--If you shoot someone, or rob a bank, and then blog about it and publicize it to the world, you give the authorities no choice but to prosecute.  The method of his distribution spelled doom.

--Trying, though, to tie GN'R to this, and then to bag on them, is insane, and some psychological disorder, where you express your own personal anger, by displacing it vicariously on something you have no control over.  When Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, we did not invade Mexico, because Japan bombed us.  Quit attacking GN'R, for something that really, has nothing to do with them besides them being the "house which was randomly robbed".  Police don't care who's house was robbed, just that the person who was caught robbing it was prosecuted.

BTW, this is totally different than the Napster-Metallica deal, and you don't see Axl on TV launching an attack against this---it is out of his control.  It did not matter whose music this guy leaked, but the way he did it---if this was U2, MIA, whoever, the RIAA contractually had to pursue.

The case represents "the beginning of an effort to be more aggressive," said Kathy Loedler, the RIAA's director of investigations for the western region, adding that the industry wanted to add bite to its existing strategy. "When we tell somebody to just take it down and there's no penalty, there's no arrest, there's no fine, it's very easy for them to continue to do it."

Assistant U.S. Attorney Craig Missakian said the RIAA had alerted the Department of Justice to the case, and he planned to prosecute similar cases as they arose. "We take this type of crime very seriously," he said

.



http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1219891 … lenews_wsj

#288 Re: Guns N' Roses » Win an Abnormal CD and a picture, both signed by Ron! » 906 weeks ago

IRS--the way they added the extra drum beats, which Bumble then accentuated with bending guitar notes, at the end of the solo was incredible live!  Really added emotion to the solo!!

#289 Re: Guns N' Roses » **Kevin Cogill Who Leaked 9 GnR Songs Arrested Today** » 906 weeks ago

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10027657-1.html

The article above describes the copyright issue:

The Family Entertainment and Copyright Act of 2005 makes the sharing of pre-release copyright material a felony punishable by up to three years in prison and up to $250,000 in fines. According to his arrest affidavit, Cogill admitted to posting the songs, reports the Los Angeles Times.

#290 Re: Guns N' Roses » **Kevin Cogill Who Leaked 9 GnR Songs Arrested Today** » 906 weeks ago

monkeychow wrote:
Acquiesce wrote:

That being said I am definitely not behind this prosecution and I find it laughable that there are fans out there calling him a criminal when no doubt they enjoyed the leaks he brought to them.

As a fan of the band and the music, and when it seemed no album was comming out for years on end, I too was happy to hear new songs that I had never heard before. But why should my excitment at that mean I think that the person who distributed them acted within the law? In terms of the law he did the wrong thing. For us fans who wanted the songs, he did what we wanted. One thing has nothing to do with the other to me. Like Robin Hood gave money to the poor - but he still stole it!

sic. wrote:

joins them in their incredibly naive and misguided attitude towards the digital realm and the consumers who reside within.

I have a ton of respect for you sic as one of the most awesome posters out there. So i don't want this to sound like an attack on you...but I actually think it isn't the record companies who are naive on this issue...it's the digital p2p and online comunities you refer to who are naive.

Sure, tehcnology is going to make it easy to do this stuff, and hard to catch people. But in the physical non-digital world, copyright is a legal right that is enforced, and people like the FBI don't see it as old fashioned or going away just because we have computers now.

Technology makes it possible for people to steal money from banks from their own homes. Are the police naive to investigate this as the crime of theft just because it didn't happen with a shotgun at a brick-and-morter bank? Likewise copyright violation is an offence if you do it digitally, or if you go in with some old school hardware and steal the songs in person.

There are broader socological issues at hand - that ask questions about why information and sound should be capiable of being copyrighted - which is what I think is at the heart and soul in the minds of those who refer to copyright as outdated, replaced by the internet and so on...who feel they have the right to stuff because its now possible to do it easily...but that's an issue for your legislators then...take it up in politics if you feel the laws are outdated and no longer appropriate.....but don't call the cops nieve...as the status quo is that what many people do is illegal...and just becasue it seems natural to internet junkies like the people on here....doesn't mean the real world police will see it that way - from their point of view - laws have been broken.

Ace analysis! 

The way this was publicized by Skwerl and Anti-quiet, gave the record industry and authorities no other option than to prosecute. 

I also think, in light of the law being broken, if he would not have mentioned "Universal" so prominently in the subsequent interviews after the leak, they would have taken this more lightly.  Universal has a reputation to maintain with their clients, and being known as a company that hires "leakers" into their Distribution department does not fly well when negotiating contracts.  Also, leaking nine, not one, songs from a huge upcoming release with much on the line, and publicizing it so openly was basically asking for this.  Maybe this guy has some mad intention to become a cult hero?

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