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#291 Re: Guns N' Roses » Desoto Civic Center 5th December - CANCELLED » 708 weeks ago
richard fortus?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mftC-Mdj … re=relatedhere we go again with the endless debate...it's really simple. They AGAIN scheduled too many dates in TINY markets...overbooked. The big cities are doing fine and the shows are kicking ass. It's simple economics. The production costs outweigh the gross dollars in these small markets. Poor planning.
For instance, why play the Forum in LA when you can do Universal again like in 2006? My only guess is that they are getting a good deal from the venue/arenas since the NBA was locked out.
I think you are right, but it is not something that can be admitted in public.
#292 Re: Guns N' Roses » Robin vs. DJ Ashba » 708 weeks ago
I don't think there is much evidence to support that. Better was one of the best songs on the album and, musically, it was Robin's baby.
Robin's TIL solo is pretty damn great as well as his TWAT solo (although in that latter case I don't know if there was a previous version he was using as a template). His four other credits are equally impressive.
From my seat, until I hear a DJ contribution to G&R, I can't evaluate him as a recording member.
#293 Re: Guns N' Roses » Robin vs. DJ Ashba » 708 weeks ago
And again, I'm sure Robin could've called Axl and they could have worked something out to keep Robin in the band. It never happened, so Axl was left with no choice but to get someone to take his place. Robin was completely silent after he re-joined NIN, nobody knew what his plans were. At least, that's what we were told. If he had said, I'll come back to GNR once plans to tour/promote/etc. are finalized, I don't think Axl would've had a problem and he'd still be in the band. Richard Fortus made it clear while touring with Thin Lizzy that Guns was his top priority. Robin could've done the same, but he jumped ship and made NIN his top priority. That's fine, he had his reasons, and lord knows I understand he must've been frustrated by working so long on something and not to see it materialize. But Dizzy, Richard, Chris, and Tommy stuck around. Robin didn't.
I think you assume a lot of detail of information when very little is known of how this transpired. We know Axl was surprised to learn Robin had begun working with NIN again, but we also know that this occurred during a period of prolonged inactivity in G&R.
We do not know what Robin's contract status was when he left. We do not know if any G&R plans were brought to the players for the forseeable future. We also do not know what communication existed between the camps after Robin signed to play, including whether Axl made inquires about whether Robin was committed to coming back after the tour.
We have heard many times how these players are left in the dark on the inner grumblings in G&R during these periods between tours. Robin was offered a chance to write and perform on an elaborate, extensive tour; his other option was to sit around and wait for G&R to send him contracts for a new tour which might not happen within the next two years.
Did Dizzy, Chris, Tommy, and Richard receive as attractive an offer? Loyalty is a bit of a slippery criteria to judge anyone in this band since everyone outside the front man is a paid, contract employee.
#294 Re: Guns N' Roses » Robin vs. DJ Ashba » 708 weeks ago
killingvector wrote:It was quite an incredible event, surpassing even a U2 show (which Trent has pointed comments about their theft of his onstage technology).
U2's show was so massive but in terms of technological wow factor NIN was light years ahead. Some of the shit you were seeing on stage in 2008/2009 was just mindblowing and I found myself wondering how I was seeing some of the shit I was seeing. U2 stole nothing from NIN in terms of production in my opinion. At least froma fan viewer's perspective. I don't see anythg remotely similar really. U2 had an awesome video screen which was in production to be built before NIN even toured so..... other than that lights are lights and that's what U2 had. NIN had like a magic show of illusions. Both were awesome. U2 for it's sheer size, NIN for the fact it left you scratching your head wondering how they did that.
Trent seems to have a different opinion, but I don't know enough about his thoughts to make an educated opinion.
Both NIN and U2 offer the greatest two stage shows in music today.
#295 Re: Guns N' Roses » Robin vs. DJ Ashba » 708 weeks ago
killingvector wrote:What does the release date of Chinese have to do with Robin touring with NIN? I also think to highlight the word "quit" is a bit unfair to the guy.
Robin re-joined NIN officially in April 2008 because there were no road plans in place for G&R in the foreseeable future. God know what Robin knew concerning the lawsuits floating around Axl. But the album was released in late November with no touring until 2010. Clearly, Robin had a chance to create music, get out on the road, and do something. I can't fault him for that. If anyone was privy to the techno-gadgets that Trent employed on that tour, you might understand why Robin was so excited to jump back in. It was quite an incredible event, surpassing even a U2 show (which Trent has pointed comments about their theft of his onstage technology).
I didn't say I blamed him for making the decisions he made. But I still view it as he QUIT Guns N' Roses. Because in the end, that's what it turned out to be. He went to re-join NIN on their massive tour. Great! Good for him. NIN stopped touring and it was clear that was going to be the case. I'm sure Robin could've easily picked up the phone and told Axl he'd be willing to rejoin the band at a later date. It seemed Axl left that door wide open. But that never happened, and GNR went onward and hired DJ to replace him.
Obviously we don't know all the details, but that's the way I view it from my house.
Ashba was hired in March 2009. NIN toured through September 2009.
By that timeline, it would not have been possible for Axl to offer the position back to Finck until he knew when the NIN tour was going to end. I don't think that was knowable in March 2009.
I suspect Axl felt the pressure to get someone on board or saw an opportunity to fill the position with a solid player and jumped on it.
You are entitled to your opinion, but considering the long delays in the release of Chinese, tours that started/ended abruptly, and long periods of inactivity, I don't fault Bucket or Robin from leaving to do something else.
#296 Re: Guns N' Roses » Robin vs. DJ Ashba » 708 weeks ago
What does the release date of Chinese have to do with Robin touring with NIN? I also think to highlight the word "quit" is a bit unfair to the guy.
Robin re-joined NIN officially in April 2008 because there were no road plans in place for G&R in the foreseeable future. God know what Robin knew concerning the lawsuits floating around Axl. But the album was released in late November with no touring until 2010. Clearly, Robin had a chance to create music, get out on the road, and do something. I can't fault him for that. If anyone was privy to the techno-gadgets that Trent employed on that tour, you might understand why Robin was so excited to jump back in. It was quite an incredible event, surpassing even a U2 show (which Trent has pointed comments about their theft of his onstage technology).
#297 Re: Guns N' Roses » Robin vs. DJ Ashba » 708 weeks ago
killingvector wrote:Bono wrote:If you're speaking in terms of turning off casual fans and alienating many long time fans then yeah he was definitely a monster on the 2006 tour :P
Robin? Really?
I have not heard an objection to Mr. Finck's 2006/07 performance. In fact, I know long time G&R fans who drifted away after he left.
Really, where have you been? There's been numerous objections to him over the years and a handful of them in this very thread. I can only assume you're intentionally not aknowledging the objections that have been mentioned cause they're quite common even amongst long time Gn'R fans.
I don't deny there are fans of Robin who may have lost interest in this Gn'R project after his depature nor do I deny there are a lot of Robin fans period but to say you've not heard any objections to his performances is... dare I say completely untrue. I mean how is it possible to be a regular on a Gn'R discussion board and not have heard of any objections to Robin? Whether it be his ability, his style, his interpretations of classic Gn'R songs live or his contributions to CD.
Just settle down and we can untangle this a bit. Objections over Robin's choppy style existed back in 01/02. They continued from the same people throughout his tenure. That being said, his performance in 06/07 turned a lot of naysayers around and excited others to the point where they felt he had the star power to complement Axl.
I agree that there were objections about his style, but these existed long before the 06/07 tour. My point was that these two years were Robin's coming out party as a star in this band. He won over a lot of people, myself included.
I am not intentionally NOT acknowledging any objection. More to the point, I am specifically looking at what happened in 06/07. And, no, I have not gone through this thread page by page since it rehashes discussions which have appeared on G&R boards since 01/02. In fact, the objections against Bucket were much more animated if memory serves me correctly.
DJ is perfectly capable, but I don't particularly enjoy his work outside G&R and have not heard any material he has written in G&R. Robin has impressed me both in NIN and G&R 2.0 and 2.5, especially with his contributions to Chinese.
#298 Re: Guns N' Roses » Desoto Civic Center 5th December - CANCELLED » 708 weeks ago
^Weekend times are fewer, more heavily booked, and more expensive to rent.
If you only did weekend shows, you'd be touring 2 or 3 times as long to do the same amount of shows.
If you can sell 3000 more tickets for a weekend show, those costs can be more than offset.
Tours feed off word of mouth. 5000-6000 in the crowd for a band like this is not good pub.
#299 Re: Guns N' Roses » Desoto Civic Center 5th December - CANCELLED » 708 weeks ago
It is a huge arena show with high overhead. They need to sell tix to make money.
I don't understand the logic of Monday/Tuesday/Wednesday night shows. Especially with the late Guns start times.
#300 Re: Guns N' Roses » Robin vs. DJ Ashba » 708 weeks ago
killingvector wrote:. He was a monster on the '06 tour.
If you're speaking in terms of turning off casual fans and alienating many long time fans then yeah he was definitely a monster on the 2006 tour
Robin? Really?
I have not heard an objection to Mr. Finck's 2006/07 performance. In fact, I know long time G&R fans who drifted away after he left.