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#321 Re: Guns N' Roses » An interesting topic, what would happen if axl... » 879 weeks ago

Captain Winkler wrote:

ask slash to compose anything like the solos on shackler's or riyadh and he'd sit there scratching his top hat wondering what the fuck is going on.  he has never done anything similar to those solos or riffs. could you provide a source for this supposed "slash would do an industrial record with GNR"? i doubt that, because it seems like utter BS.

to say Axl's lyrics on chinese demo are bad is well ignorant to be polite, it seems that your lack of appreciation for Axl and the new band is far more deep seeded than simply not digging the new material.

I love Slash, i love his work, and he seems like a decent guy, but hes a media whore and the darling of every rock journalist going around, and you seem to be swept up in this Slash worshiping anti-Axl  vibe that has been produced, mainly due to sensational journalism and a lack of actual information on the situation. there is no doubting that Axl is eccentric and at times over-bearing and tedious to deal with, but to heap all the blame on Axl is just ridiculous. whether hes credible or not, Scott weiland has even been quoted as saying, having been in a band with Slash, that he "can see now that it may not have been all Axl's fault after dealing with those guys". Slash undoubtedly portrays himself as the innocent, laid back chilled guy, and i am sure to some extent he is, but he definitely cannot be exonerated of all responsibility for the dissolution of the band.

on the whole Axl not doing what his lyrics depict, well that my friend, is utterly ridiculous. lyrics are not necessarily self descriptive, nor are they necessarily introspective. they can depict a story of a protagonist, offer opinions on contemporary issues etc. none of which include first person accounts of what is occurring in the lyrics. that is one of the most inherently stupid comments i have ever seen. so because he wrote civil war, and did not go to any war, or fuck he didn't even go the civil war!?!? his lyrics have no credibility?

you no what you're right, i can pretty much disregard every single song ever written now. led zeppelin for example, i was a fool to think they were actually present at the battle of evermore, what an idiot i am, they lied to me, and i believed them! you mean to tell me there is no actual stairway to heaven!?!? jesus H christ! WOH HOLD UP you're saying that Freddie mercury never actually shot a man? never actually pulled a trigger and now hes dead!?!? and pink floyd? surely not? they never actually took part in any building programs regarding bricks!?!? they were never even present on the building site!?!? OH MY SWEET DICK ITS A CONSPIRACY! THANK YOU FOR BLOWING MY MIND!

I'm very sorry to burst your bubble, but I am not anti-Axl, nor did I say his music was bad nor that Axl Rose has to live exactly what his lyrics say, I just said I take them with a grain of salt when they directly pertain to his experiences. You were the one who brought up how Slash is unwilling to go out of this "safe zone" and I showed you with a dozen examples off the top of my head how he has played in all different genres. But, you didn't pay attention to that because those facts aren't convenient to your point of view. Monkeychow proved my point about Slash willing to do other types of music by quoting right from his own mouth from his book to elaborate on my other post.

Axl was saying something with Civil War, it wasn't written in regards to any certain war, that was all about politics and humanity itself. In the new music he's sometimes really focusing on events in his life and on that level I would never go out of my way to agree with Axl Rose. In other instances, it's very good and poetic. When Axl does his rants on stage, they're real, they're great and I believe he believes it at that moment in time. But, Axl's day to day actions are not that of a normal man. One riot would have stopped anyone else dead in their tracks, Axl still never stopped messing with the crowd. I believe that there's an element of hatred towards the fans in Shackler's Revenge and after messing with people for so long, I'm sorry, but I fully understand why people hold a resentment against him. I'm not one of those people. If I was I wouldn't be here. I don't trust Axl's account of actions at all, and that's why I liked it when he was more broad rather than specific.

I enjoy the leaks, they just are nowhere near as strong as the old material, and that's fine because that is some of the greatest music of all time. Just because Axl put industrial elements into his tunes doesn't impress me just because they're there and I don't know why it impresses others. Hell, Motley Crue did the same thing in, what, '97 (and they also had another direction shift earlier in '94), and you were calling them relics in your first post. Vince Neil combined rap beats and rock music on one of his solo albums years before Limp Bizkit... but combining genres is nothing new and I don't think Vince Neil is on a higher level than (insert random singer here) who solely sings rock all his life because he threw some rap beats in some tunes 15 years ago. It's like I said in my first post; there's plenty of art still to be made in straight rock n roll or operas or rap music and everything in between.

About the only thing you've proven to me is you are doing precisely what I said you were doing in my very first long post; slandering Slash's musical boundaries on the (apparently?) sole fact that he doesn't participate in industrial music because he's done damn near everything else. Like Neemo said, "why would he want to?" He even did a flamenco solo at the end of Double Talkin' Jive! In this thread I was in no way anti-Axl, I spoke the truth about Axl and the truth about Slash but I am not going to stand by and listen to someone regurgitate inaccuracies in regards to the versatility of Slash's guitar playing while praising Axl for using industrial elements he's been experimenting with since 1991 as something "new". You said it'd be laughable for Slash to perform about drinking and fucking, yet in your first post talked about Axl creating a new 'Nightrain' and talked about wanting Axl to 'transform and evolve the type of music that made him and GNR famous' which I directly take to be AFD. AFD was all about youth, drinking, fucking and breaking shit. Unless you solely mean in mere sound, but those songs were highly effective because of their strong badass attitude. Unless you mean Estranged type lyrics with gritty punkish rock?

(In my mind, this isn't a Slash vs. Axl debate because I am not a part of any side. This is a discussion in regards to what is equatable to "musical growth/direction" pertaining to Axl and Slash since both men were brought up in the thread.)

#322 Re: Guns N' Roses » An interesting topic, what would happen if axl... » 879 weeks ago

The thing is Axl's vocals nor lyrics are as good on the CD stuff in general than it was on the UYI stuff. And, I personally take Axl's lyrics with a grain of salt because generally everything he sings about he does the opposite in his personal actions. I ask, though, what should Slash do that will make him more broad of a guitarist? We know he can do it anyways, all the performers he's played with has proven this; so what is there to prove? Even if Slash was in GNR right now, he wouldn't be making electronic sounds, that's be Axl's bag, so how could he grow? He'd just be playing the guitar and I hear little to nothing on the CD leaks that Slash hasn't done similarly and better. Bands don't generally constantly shift genres, musicians get their other loves out of their system with live performances and ventures with others and focus on what they love on their own work. That's why he worked with Lenny Kravitz, because he had this cool riff that Lenny liked, but Slash thought it was too funky for Guns. What hasn't Slash done in the world of Rock N' Roll? Slash even said he'd have done an industrial record with Guns if everyone was on the same page, but it just never worked like that. Axl's been making industrial music (because he is interested in it) to an extent dating all the way back to My World. If the last nearly 20 years haven't made industrial music a part his comfort zone, I don't know what would.

I think you're comparing apples to oranges when talking about Axl Vs. Slash. Axl is a control freak singer who now has a band that he 100% controls and every sound goes his way. Slash is a guitarist and doesn't work like that as his bands are more collective.

TheMole: His book. I'm sure it was Black Sheep that he said he joined to shred just to try to get noticed between bands. If you have his book handy and want proof, there's a pic of Slash with a guitar and smoke hanging out of his mouth (it's b&w) and there's a caption "Slash shredding it up with Black Sheep."

#323 Re: Guns N' Roses » An interesting topic, what would happen if axl... » 879 weeks ago

Captain Winkler wrote:
Brett wrote:

Libertad was not really in Slash's safe zone and even if it was, who cares? Why does that automatically equate a negative?

i think most people would agree that it was, and theres nothing wrong with doing what you love doing, but seeing 45 year old dudes singing about getting drunk and pwning chicks seems a little tragic and pathetic to me. i'd prefer Axl to evolve as an artist, and to me he has done so.

I think Libertad sounds way more current than what I normally associate Slash with.

Seeing Axl Rose at 46 looks a bit silly up there cranking out industrial tunes make me giggle just a tad. And, he's still dwelling over Stephanie in the lyrics 15 years after the breakup. Now, THAT my friend, is sad and pathetic to me. Slash has proven all he's needed to prove. He did one of the best hard rock albums of all time (the best to me), was part of softer ballads and literally everything in between that and punk on UYI (which means he's done 'epic'), even got a really bluesy singer for the second incarnation of Snakepit, not to mention played with countless people in countless ways along the way, electic and acoustic. He even played for ICP on one of their rap/rock songs and worked with Ray Charles and MJ. The guy has proven himself and evolved as an artist all the way along, but I love the fact that he sticks to what he enjoys, ratty rock n roll, on his records. Why wouldn't he?

Plus, Slash gets a bum rep sometimes. The same people saying he stays in his element whine and cry when he "sells out" and plays SCOM with Fergie and they make fun of him for getting the guys from Cypress Hill to do Paradise City. So what can he do? Does he have to pretend he's NIN before he can finally get the respect he deserves? Should he just shred through everything? Black Sheep, a band he was in, were heavy into shredding.

So, I ask, what hasn't the man done and what area of music has he not been involved in?

#324 Re: Guns N' Roses » An interesting topic, what would happen if axl... » 879 weeks ago

Libertad was not really in Slash's safe zone and even if it was, who cares? Why does that automatically equate a negative?

#325 Re: Guns N' Roses » An interesting topic, what would happen if axl... » 879 weeks ago

TheMole wrote:

Well, I remember Axl saying in an interview years back when asked what kept him from doing another blues-based rock album that is was Slash (or lack thereof).

Loder: What prevented you from doing, like, a traditional rock record?
Rose: Slash.
Loder: [Laughs] But you could have found another guitar player or something, right?
Rose: Well, not really.... Not to make a true Guns record.

source: http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/arti … ticleid=28

I don't really agree with him though. I reckon there's plenty of guitarists out there that could make nuGNR sound more "rock". I think he's changing his act to avoid direct comparisons.

But more relevantly: I agree with you, I would prefer if they did a more classic hardrock GNR type album. As I've always openly proclaimed: I'd love an AFD, part II.

I think he meant that as Slash leaving the band, not as though Slash didn't want to make some bluesy rock... because he obviously did. Even said so in his book.

EDIT: Nevermind... I was pissing around on Xbox and fucked up. Sorry.

#326 Re: Guns N' Roses » An interesting topic, what would happen if axl... » 879 weeks ago

How come Axl is "moving forward" just because he uses some rap beats and industrial tones? You can't create good art in Rock N' Roll anymore? I never understood this argument that Axl Rose is Jesus himself because he uses synth and beats? It's not that they sound horrible, but what's he inventing by doing things others have done? For that matter, what's left to invent?

GNR was never the sound of the eighties, if anything GNR were just good hard rockers, and that will always remain current in terms of good hard rock fans. I don't think Axl gains any more fans than he loses by incorporating industrial elements. I like the fact that he's doing what he wants, but he's not re-inventing the wheel here. For the most part the sounds are UYI with beats, to me. Sound fine, but I'm just saying.

I don't know if Axl has any good rockers in him anymore, the CD ones are underwhelming. Unless you consider Better a rocker. It is, but I prefer my rockers to have some badass lyrics.

#327 Guns N' Roses » Lyrics: Then Vs. Now » 879 weeks ago

Brett
Replies: 11

Now, from all I've read about GNR, who wrote what and how much is a fucking mess, but it seems that Izzy, Slash, and Duff did a lot in regards to GNR lyrics (especially Izzy). But to cut all bullshit aside, let's just piece it up. Then Vs. Now (leaks). Which do you think has the best lyrics.

To me, it's no comparison that the old stuff by far exceeds the new in both meaning and as well as using better literary devices and comparisons or just plain more poetic in the songs themselves. And in the case of the rock songs, they're not as badass. I'm just going to pull out of my ass some of my favorite lyrics from UYI II solely (compressed as much as possible to save space, and yes, I'm fully aware some of this is Izzy or Duff, but that's not a concern because I'm comparing writing on the finished product and the finished [?] leaks as a whole):

"You're power hungry sellin' soldiers
In a human grocery store
Ain't that fresh
... With no love of God or human rights
'Cause all these dreams are swept aside
By bloody hands of the hypnotized
Who carry the cross of homicide"

"We all come in from the cold
We come down from the wire
An everybody warms themselves to a different fire
When sometimes we get burned
You'd think sometime we'd learn
The one you love is the one
That should take you higher
You ain't got no one
You better go back out and find her,
Just like children hidin' in a closet
Can't tell what's goin' on outside
Sometimes we're so far off the beaten track
We'll get taken for a ride
By a parlor trick or some words of wit
...When I look around
Everybody always brings me down
Well is it them or me
Well I just can't see
But there ain't no peace to found
But if someone really cared
Well they'd take the time to spare
A moment to try and understand
Another one's despair
Remember in this game we call life
That no one said it's fair
...Just because you're winnin'
Don't mean you're the lucky ones"

"I opened up the doors when it was cold outside
Hopin' that you'd find your own way in
But how can I protect you
Or try not to neglect you
When you won't take the love I have to give
I bought me an illusion
An I put it on the wall
I let it fill my head with dreams
And I had to have them all
But oh the taste is never so sweet
As what you'd believe it is-
Well I guess it never is
It's these prejudiced illusions
That pump the blood
To the heart of the biz
...But I feel as though you raped me
'Cause you climbed inside my world
And in my songs
So now I've closed the door
To keep the cold outside
Seems somehow I've found the will to live
But how can I forget you
Or try not to reject you
When we both know it takes time to forgive
...I've worked too hard for my illusions
Just to throw them all away
...You know I tried to wake you-
I mean how long could it take you
To open up your eyes and turn the page
...'Cause love to me's a two way street
An all I really want is peace"

"How could you say that I never needed you
When you took everything
Said you took everything from me
...With all the changing seasons of my life
Maybe I'll get it right next time
An now that you've been broken down
Got your head out of the clouds
You're back down on the ground
And you don't talk so loud
An you don't walk so proud
...Well I jumped into the river
Too many times to make it home
I'm out here on my own, an drifting all alone
If it doesn't show give it time
To read between the lines
'Cause I see the storm getting closer
And the waves they get so high
Seems everything we've ever known's here
Why must it drift away and die
I'll never find anyone to replace you
Guess I'll have to make it through, this time- Oh this time
Without you"

"I'm a cold heartbreaker
Fit ta burn and I'll rip
Your heart in two
An I'll leave you lyin' on the bed
I'll be out the door before ya wake
It's nuthin' new ta you
'Cause I think we've seen that movie too
...When I come home late at night
Don't ask me where I've been
Just count your stars
I'm home again
...You can push it for more mileage
But your flaps r' wearin' thin
And I could sleep on it 'til mornin'
But this nightmare never ends"

"Why do you look at me when you hate me
...But I'm gonna deal it back to you in spades
When I'm havin' fun ya know I can't conceal it
'Cause I know you'd never cut it in my game- Oh no
And when you're talkin' about a vasectomy- Yeah
I'll be writin' down your obituary- history!
...You may not like our integrity yeah
We built a world out of anarchy
Oh yeah!"

"You say I walk a line
Fuck they move it every time
You walk a mile in my shoes
And then you tell me 'bout singin' the blues
...With your verbal masturbation"

"I was the one who's washing
Blood off your hands
...If I was standin' by you
How would you feel
Knowing your love's decided
And all love is real
...And when you're in need of someone
My heart won't deny you
So many seem so lonely
With no one left to cry to baby"

"Yesterday, there was so many things
I was never told
Now that I'm startin' to learn
I feel I'm growing old
...Some things could be better
If we'd all just let them be"

Compared to:

"I won't be told anymore
That I've been brought down in this storm
And left so far out from the shore
That I can't find my way back, my way anymore
...Forgive them that tear down my soul
Bless them that they might grow old
And free them so that they may know
That it's never too late
...I searched and found the ways you used to lure me in
I found the ways, why you had to be
Marred in denial, and so afraid"

"And it hurts too much to see you
And how you left yourself behind
...So now I wander through my days
And try to find my ways
To the feelings that I've felt
I saved it for you and no one else
And now as long as this road seems
I know it's called the street of dreams
But that's not stardust on my feet
It leaves a taste that bittersweet
That's called the blues
..What I thought was beautiful
Don't live inside of you,
Anymore
What this means to me is more
Than I know you believe
What I thought of you now
Has cost more than it should for me
What I thought was true before
Were lies I couldn't see
What I thought was beautiful,
Is only memories."

"It'd be the knowledge that you gave me
When I thought I'd heard it all
...and now you're sleeping like an angel
Near than man who reaped it
If there's something I can make of this
Or anything at all
It'd be the devil hates a loser and
You thought you had it all"

"When all is said and done
We're not the only ones
Who look at life this way
That's what the old folks say
...On an ordinary day
Not in an ordinary way
All at once this song I heard
No longer would it play for anybody
Or anyone
That needed comfort from somebody
Needed comfort from someone who cared "

"Could it be the weight that I've carried on
Like a broken record for so long"

"So bittersweet
This tragedy
Won't ask for absolution
This melody
Inside of me
Still searches for solution
A twist of fate
A change of heart
Kills my infatuation
Of a broken heart
To provide the spark for my determination"

"I never thought all the love I was looking for
could ever be so close to me
You're the only one I have ever loved that has ever loved me
and now you've got the best of me "

I've got an itchy finger and there'll be hell to pay
I'm gonna pull the trigger and blow them all away
...I've got a wicked demon inside that never fades "

----

Maybe I'm crazy, but I just see so many more elements that aren't so straight forward in the older stuff (which I probably could have included a lot more of) compared to the new, more direct and to me, less creative lyrics. It's like he went from taking experiences and relaying them on a worldly level (much more often metaphorically) for everyone to really introverting and speaking things that directly relate to him and him laying it on the line. To me in the old stuff there'd usually be at least a word or two or more out there that'd give the lyric a whole new meaning (ie: 'Cause all these dreams are swept aside, By bloody hands of the hypnotized or using an alternate term like verbal masturbation rather than lashing ala Silkworms, or the buildup to the flipout in Get in the Ring). I don't want anyone to get me wrong, there's some really good stuff, but I feel Axl may have focused on certain rhyme schemes more than the lyrics themselves. Actually, when I hear the new stuff, I kind of think of 14 years, it's good but to the point. But, that's just me.

Do you guys have any thoughts on this subject? Don't have to go all out like I did. 14

#328 Re: Guns N' Roses » Classic Rock 100 Greatest Rock Songs & Alan Niven's Great 8 GN'R Songs » 879 weeks ago

Nightrain is one of my all time favorite GNR tracks, so much so that I use it on my Xbox Live account as my name. I love the lyrics and I love the exuberance of youth in the track. I understand why Slash was so excited to play it, it's the fun song that's completely badass and screams of a drunken good time. It's pretty much what the band most likely was truly about back then. Well, those an other activities. wink

#329 Re: Guns N' Roses » one thing about AXL vs. SLASH (music) » 879 weeks ago

I know I'm probably the odd man out here, but I don't think the leaks we've heard are up to snuff lyrically with the UYI sessions, and the badass lyrics aren't as badass as before either. I liked the metaphors Axl and the band would use on... damn near anything on the epic songs on UYI, but it seems as though CD is just a lot of introverted dwelling on a woman that has no resolution or no hope (except Madgascar which really is an amazing song, I can't praise it enough). Listen to the song Estranged alone, to me it has more philosophical and for me, personal impact than things I've heard thus far. Civil War and Breakdown were so amazing lyrically and I could go on and on about probably 3/4 of the songs on each album. I think there's a lot more interesting juxtaposition and metaphors in the old albums and the new ones seem to lack a real direction other than being downers. I find the music on UYI a lot more interesting as well, but like everything else, that's completely subjective.

CD is sort of like a really depressing version of UYI, and that could very well be Axl's goal based on how he feels and I have no problem with that. How I picture CD's album art is UYI's but in black and gray. But one of the very lyrics I loved of Axl's pertains here:"It's a feeling you can have it, it's not mine to take away." I want Axl's music to be personal, important to him, allowing him to vent, because that's what it's all about. I still think CD has potential to be the best album to come out in a long time, I just much prefer the presentation of the old lyrics rather than the new ones. I think they're more poetic, but that's just me.

#330 Re: The Garden » WHO SHOULD YOU BELIEVE? » 879 weeks ago

For what my opinion is worth; it's a lot of repeating monkeychow and others' posts, but I think most of the problem is now as it always has been, and that's Axl Rose. I have no doubt people quitting the band and this and that have had an effect on this album and delays. But the problem is that this album is just a fucking album; it's not brain surgery. By the time Slash and Duff left the thing should have been almost done; if not released already. Taking so long for an album is outrageous and Axl should know as a logical human being that no one is going to stick around too long to come up with 13 tracks for an album, no matter what circumstances you're under. I am not sure why he'd tour if he didn't think the album release was imminent, so I think there are other outside factors delaying, but he should have learned after people quit time and time again; shit or get off the pot. I have a feeling many fans would be long gone if it wasn't for the constant teasing; the maybes in regards to Chinese Democracy.

Regarding the fans, I'm not experienced as to what is going on as much as the rest of you guys, but I know this: For people to be awaiting this album for so long, he should consider it a blessing whether or not anyone downloads some leaks. He doesn't owe anyone anything, but at the same time we don't owe him anything either. Free expression of all things should be high on Axl's beliefs. I think the wait for the album is something he planned, but something that somewhere lost control because, to semi-quote from Slash's book once again, he can't believe people would rather not deal with the crap that entails being in Guns N' Roses than be in Guns N' Roses. Many musicians live to play music to their people and squatting in a studio for years isn't their idea of a good time.

I don't think the GNR camp realizes that although people are on message boards, it doesn't mean we're losing sleep or more laughably yet, thinking it's actually affecting day to day life for us in a negative sense that his album is in a state of disarray and has been for years. Axl can blame everything on everything he wants, but at the end of the day 95% of shit being flung at him comes in response to his erratic behavior. I wish no ill will towards him, but there does come a time where you have to take some responsibility for how your behavior, promises and actions effects your fanbase or the public in general.

I think it's a situation where no one is innocent, no one is guilty, it's all a massive shade of gray. Some shades are much darker than others. I want to hear Chinese Democracy. I do not care to be friends with Axl Rose.

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