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#3561 Re: The Sunset Strip » Why Has Modern Music Lost So Much Impact? » 888 weeks ago

russtcb wrote:

This seems pretty well written and to the point.

It is a good article. The problem with these articles is the peole writing them make perfect sense, unfortunately they aren's the people in position to make change. Here's another article written that someone on this  site I believe posted a while back. Makes perfect sense to me but again untill the people in the right positions care enough to make change it's not gonna happen.


12/27/2007
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(antiMusic) Since it is such a slow news day, we'll end the final Day in Rock report of the year with an editorial I wrote about the current state of the music business. - Keavin antiMusic editor.
I started antiMusic almost ten years ago with the crazy dream of using it to showcase quality music that was being ignored by the mainstream. The last thing I thought it would turn into was a chronicle of the demise of the music business. Where I once was an optimistic and passionate music lover, today I'm pretty cynical about the whole "business" of music where the very last consideration seems to be the music. I'm still passionate about music, but I have utter contempt for the entertainment business at large and its culture of mediocrity, trend mongering and lack of passion about what really should be important and that is the art.

A few years back, I wrote a couple of related editorials about this trend and how it has only grown over time. One piece dealt with how some of the biggest selling albums of all time came about by mistake because given the general operating procedures of the music business they would have never had a chance. I wrote about how the Beatles were turned down by every major record company of the day. Not once, but twice. Now, think about that for a minute. The people at the record companies that supposedly know the music business turned down The Beatles twice because they didn't think they could "market" them. It has only become worse since then. There is a good chance that a band that could be as revolutionary as the Beatles is sitting in a garage somewhere, playing pay-to-play gigs and getting ignored by the corporate record company machine and you'll never hear them because they don't sound just like everybody else or won't make good pin-ups for teen magazines.

The sad state of affairs at the end of 2007 is that our biggest selling music stars are coming from a television karaoke contest. Sure they are talented, but do they really bring anything new to the game? Or are they, by the very nature of how they achieved their fame, playing it safe and putting out music which is basically a Xerox of what has come before? Sure, some inspire real passion from their fans. Some fans go to the point of insane obsession but when you really look at it, it usually boils down the cult of personality over the love of their decent, but mostly forgettable and interchangeable, music.

The record companies are corporations in the business to make money. God bless them for that, but somewhere along the line they lost almost all focus of the fact that great music can and does sell. And the last thing that seems to be in their mind these days is creating long-term careers and instead they want to focus on cashing in on "what's hot" today; as they pass out pink slips to their employees when their latest signings received a lukewarm reception. It interesting that the first music business billionaire was David Geffen, a man that made a career of taking chances on what he thought was great music, even if it didn't exactly fit in with the flavor of the week. He pretty much took chances and as a result made the trends, didn't follow them.

Now let's take a little look at the problem with "flavors of the week". Tween girls used to go insane over people like Scott Baio, Leif Garrett and Shawn Cassidy (insert and teen idol/90210/The OC star name here) but that passion was short-lived. People get excited about Led Zeppelin reuniting decades past their heyday, but does anyone care what yesterday's teen idol is doing? Frankie Goes to Hollywood had two of the top five biggest selling songs in the UK during the 80s, but when was the last time you heard about them (aside from a punch line)? Or have you even heard of them at all? This is just one problem of historic focus on short-term fame and gain.

To illustrate that problem, here is a highlight of sales from just one year; 1989. A year that really started the downward trend in music. The biggest selling album in the US that year was from Bobby Brown. The only time we hear about him today is in relation to scandal and who he married. The second biggest seller was from New Kids On The Block and the third was from Paula Abdul. How many CDs are they selling today? Interestingly enough, the No. 5 biggest selling album that year shows us the other side of the coin; the long term. Two years after it was released, Guns N' Roses' 'Appetite for Destruction' was the fifth biggest selling album of the year. This was a band that definitely didn't fit any trend at the time (aside from being hard rock) but sonically they didn't sound like anyone else and they still standout as original today.

Remember the long term here because Appetite, over the long haul with 15 million copies sold in the U.S., has outsold all of the albums that topped the annual sales list of that era: 1987's biggest seller Bon Jovi's 'Slippery When Wet' (12 million), 1988's George Michael's 'Faith' (10 million) and of course 1989's Bobby Brown's 'Don't Be Cruel' (7 million). By the way, GNR were one of those acts that Geffen took a chance on and stuck with even when they didn't have immediate success. It actually took them a year to catch on. In today's music business they would have been dropped after a couple months without a hit. Then again, in today's business they would have never been given a record deal in the first place. We need more David Geffens and Tom Zutauts and fewer Jay-Zzzzs and Matt Pinheads.

Should we mention other top 5 sellers that have slipped into obscurity? MC Hammer, Wilson Phillips, C&C Music Factory, Michael Bolton, INXS, Billy Ray Cyrus, Ace of Base, Hootie and the Blowfish, Fugees and the list goes on.

To be fair, you always have trends and one hit wonders, but over the past ten years the trends have dominated because labels have lost focus on developing "career" artists that don't fit nicely into the mainstream or current trend. (Label consolidations hasn't helped). Just look at the top sales from 1999: Backstreet Boys, Britney Spears, Shania Twain, N Sync, and Ricky Martin. 2001 gave us Shaggy and Limp Bizkit (but the Beatles topped the list 22 years after they broke up). Will Shaggy, Britney or the Backstreet Boys top the charts in 2023? Can Limp Bizkit get into the Top 200 this year? 2002 sported Creed, Pink, and Nelly. This year gave us two American Idol alums, Akon, Fergie and a Disney tween star. Will any of these "stars" still be big ten or fifteen years from now or will they be on a Vh1 reality show?

It's real easy to point to outside elements as the cause of the decline in music sales. The biggest scapegoat is illegal downloaders. But even with all music practically out there for free, people still pay for music they believe in. The problem is the lack of interest in what is being offered. Sure you can pander to a "focused" group like pop fans who change with the season, kids with a parent's credit card and the current hip-hop flavor of the week, but the real passionate music fans are feeling left out and ignored by the major record companies and even the indies. It is to their own detriment to have such a narrow view and focus. That narrow view is leading to a narrower potential for profit and success. They only limit themselves with it. The next time these executives are looking over the Billboard singles chart they might want to glance at the Boxscore chart to see what the more dedicated fans are paying for. You know those fans that will spend a hundred bucks on a concert ticket without even thinking about it. When's the last time you focused on what they like? Ah but those are older acts they don't sell CDs any longer. Tell that to The Eagles, Bruce Springsteen and Bon Jovi.

A few years ago I was given a gift card to Tower Records. I excitedly went to the local store with my mind set on picking up a couple of albums that weren't chart toppers but did sell well (both platinum) and should still be in stock. Sadly, I went in and the racks were filled with the "current" trend titles and very few albums that dated even a couple years before. I couldn't find one album that I wanted to buy. I remember going to Tower just a few years previous and spending hours going through the racks and finding gems like rare imports, b-sides etc, but on this trip I had the choice of the current "hot" rapper, Britney Spears, boybands, rap-metal or banal pop-punk groups with singers that sound like they need to take a Benadryl. I ended up going to the video section and picking up some DVDs instead. But you see Tower became too focused on the current trends and ignored the diehard music loving customer base that was their bread and butter and Tower fell as a result. The irony is that the download excuse is used a lot but you're more likely to find a casual pop fan not willing to pay for music that they will toss aside when the next "hot" release comes along, than a diehard rock fan that will buy everything the band puts out. So by focusing on short term artists, the labels are in fact exacerbating the download problem and creating a long-term crisis which is coming to a head for them now.

This isn't just a problem for the major labels, as many of the indie labels seem to be playing the same game. We have labels devoted to sound-alike pop-punk/emo groups and a half a dozen putting out indistinguishable metalcore and mallcore bands. And the problem here is that even the indies don't seem to want to take a chance on anything remotely different from the current trends.

Now I want to be clear that there are a lot of great and dedicated people that work at these labels that really get behind their artists and do their best to help them succeed. I've worked with some incredible people through the years at both major and indie labels. When I fault the labels I do not fault these people. I find the blame lies much higher up the food-chain, but sadly when the Limp Bizkit hits the fan at the labels it is these dedicated employees that usually are shown the door, when the fault lies with the decision makers at those companies. It would be interesting to see what would happen if one of these employees took over. I hate to harp on David Geffen but he did start out in the mailroom and it was a secretary that found a photo and demo tape discarded in a trashcan by an A&R person that lead Geffen to signing the Eagles.

The overall problems of the current music business really crystallized for us here at antiMusic when it came time for our writers and contributors to turn in their picks for Album of the Year. A few of the writers outright said they couldn't in good conscience make a selection because nothing stood out this year. One writer even selected Guns N' Roses 'Chinese Democracy' as his pick as the leaked demos from the CD were the only thing that made an impression on him this year. While in past years we had writers that couldn't narrow down their lists, this year the drought of standout music really hit home where not one album stood out from the pack for some of them. And our writers listen to a lot of music. Be it major label stuff or obscure indie stuff that is sent to us. We've averaged over a hundred reviews a month, so it's not like they haven't been exposed to new releases this year. Our writers do this for their love of music and when you have a year where they weren't offered any music that they fell in love with; then something isn't right with that picture.

#3562 Re: Guns N' Roses » Let the reunion rumors roll... » 888 weeks ago

war wrote:

i don't think you are making things up i just think you are having a hard time getting to the truth

The arrogance of this is insane. your opinion is truth. Gotcha. Hypocrit.



war wrote:

everything i have said is backed by fact or music theory - i noticed you didn't even coment on the mr brownstone point. an honest person would have said, "good point"

Holy fuck. You're right. I'm the furtherst thing you'll ever find when it comes to an honest person. That or I'm the most honest legit person you will EVER meet. Piss off with that comment.

war wrote:

everything you've said is backed by how many shows you've gone to which doesn't mean anything to anyone else

Well it's backed by everyone I was with. Odd isn't it.

war wrote:

axl doesn't have mic problems every show nor is he bad live. he's just not as good as he is in the studio. the thing is, again, he does so many amzing things in the studio that not even he can repeat that same level live nor could any of your heroes which don't have the range or the drastic variety of both rasp and clean vocal colors. that doesn't make him bad live - that makes him human

My money says you've never seen David Usher live and knowing that I'll assume you've never seen a singer with such an amazing / powerful live voice.  He's not my favorite but I recognize it. Have you been to half the live shows I've been too? Just asking cause I'm pretty damn sure my experience when it comes to live shows is twice or triple the average person. That's my whole fucking point. I've been to so many live shows where the singer puts on a  much more powerful performance vocally than Axl was in 2006. Performers who I like a fraction of the amount that I like Gn'R/Axl. Funny how last tour a major comment/complaint among fans was Axl's vocals being too low in the mix. they're all dishonest as I am I guess. roll

war wrote:

"comprehend being heard" - kinda insulting but whatever. to the point (mic volume) - i do beleive it is the result of his lack of confidence in his voice but it represents a very small part of his professional career.

You have the audacity to say that's insulting yet you basically called me a dishonest person. Also you pretty much agree with me here suggesting Axl's vocal mix may be low.  Pick a side and stick with it otherwise your arguement is shit.

war wrote:

i haven't been to every gnr show but i have been to several and there wasn't mic or vocal problems at any of them. and since he is not your hero i am guessing that you haven't been to all of his shows either and wouldn't be able to objectively speak for the majority.

Nope but i'd say haveing shitty vocal mixes in 3 of 3 shows I went to in 2006 and reading so many fans voice their concerns over the same issue in 2006 makes my point of view a very legit one.  And let's make it very clear Axl is not my hero. Put that in bold type all you want. Doubt it all you want but trust me he's anything but my hero. Also believe me when I say this: the majority of people attending a Gn'R show in 2006 would have issues with the volume of Axl's vocals. It's only fans on these sites that would say it sounded fantastic.

You know what's also really funny. Is how many people in 2002 were raving about how good Axl sounds but suddenly in 2006 those same people were saying how bad he sounded and how much better he sounds now. Fans not wanting to see the forest for the trees. justifying their hero's abilities regardless. Think about it.

#3563 Re: Guns N' Roses » Let the reunion rumors roll... » 888 weeks ago

war wrote:

speak for yourself when using opinions.

Wow. The hypocrisy of that is hilarious

war wrote:

so he turns the volume up - good for him. Axl is a much more diverse vocalist with a much wider vocal range than the others mentioned = fact. in other words he sets the bar higher and no one sings to perfection every night.

Ummm.... actually David Usher is absolutely perfect live. He's better than on the albums. This coming from a  guy who's seen him 7 times. being perfect however is not the point. Try and comprehend that. being heard is the point. Here's something to keep in mind. When you know the words you tend to think you're hearing the words. That's a fact.

war wrote:

here's a trick to hammer home my point. how often does axl have trouble singing mr brownstone? rare to never. because that is his natural singing voice. robert and dave sing in there natural singing voice all or the majority of their songs. again, good for them. nobody is protecting anybody. in fact, i think some are bashing their hero as if to sound objective and intelligent.

Fuck please. What a  joke. Axl my hero? hahaha. And secondly my opinion in the end isn't based on actual expeirences at live Gn'R events at all roll . I know nothing. 16

war wrote:

the fact remains that axl at his age can do more with his voice than anyone i know can do at 26. anyone who says axl is hiding his voice or cannot sing live doesn't know what they are talking about.

the fact remains that this is your opinion which you are expressing as fact. Hilarious. Here's a fact for you. I've been to nearly 100 shows in my life and the only singer  who seems to consistently have mic/ vocal issues is Axl. I guess it's just bad luck on my part roll . Nobody can be perfect all the time right  but unfortunately 75% of the Gn'R shows I've been to the vocals were sketchy. He was awesome in 1993. Trust me WAR I know what I'm talking about. I don't make shit up to make shit up.

#3564 Re: The Sunset Strip » Stones » 888 weeks ago

Backslash wrote:

Help!
Rubber Soul
Revolver
Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
Magical Mystery Tour
The Beatles (white album)
Abbey Road
Let it Be

All classic albums by The Beatles... and they were all released in a row.  I, along with The Beatles, do not consider Yellow Submarine an official studio album, and therefore I can tack Abbey Road and Let it Be in there.

Let it be, Abbey Road & Magical Mystery Tour are all extremely overrated in my opinion.  Help was alright but I think the four album stretch in question by the Stones trumps this Beatles stretch. And hell if we wanna get serious I'd like to bookend my list with The Unforgettable Fire and Pop. Nobody ever listend to Pop but it was a great album and The Unforgetable Fire is the album that U2(the Edge) debuted his signature sound.  That 6 album stretch is better than the Beatles entire discography in my opinion. The Beatles are amazing but I feel they are slightly overrated based on their timeing. Yes their are likley the most influential band ever but timeing was everything. Had it not been the Beatels it woudl've been someone else(the Stones). Honestly I feel the Stones material holds up 40 years later much better than the Beatles material

#3565 Re: Dust N' Bones & Cyborg Slunks » Slash Working on Solo Album, Not Waiting on Velvet Revolver » 889 weeks ago

Have you guys heard Hell Yeah by Rev Theory? I heard it the other day on the radio and before the guy started singing I thought it sounded a hell of alot like what a Gn'R song could be. In fact I was in the truck with my brother and he comented first that it sounded like Guns N' Roses. I  was actually leaning more towards VR. It definately sounded Slashesque either way. Kind of a cheesy cock rock song but kickass at the same time. And no it's not Slash playing on the song.   Check it out.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=crywKSFiWXY

#3566 Re: The Sunset Strip » Stones » 889 weeks ago

This won't  hold much water with you guys I'm sure seeing as though I'm a U2 fan but I'm gonna say

Joshua tree
Rattle and Hum
Achtung baby
Zooropa

was a better 4 album run and much more interesting creatively to be honest. And for the record I do own all 4 of the Stones albums mentioned. Exile being my favorite of the bunch.

#3567 Re: Guns N' Roses » Richard talks GnR in Japanese Magazines » 889 weeks ago

Things seem to be moving along nicely now. I'm sure a 2008 release date is quite possible............. Hahahahahahahahahahahahaa!!! Fuck off(not directed at anyone here).

#3568 Re: Guns N' Roses » Let the reunion rumors roll... » 889 weeks ago

war wrote:

are you guys kidding?

based on boots and live viewings i saw his voice gradually and steadily return to top form as the '06 tour went on.

axl experimented with not using rasp in '02 and i would guess it was to avoid permanent damage down the road or he was trying to establish a new identity as an artist. he proved he has a nice singing voice but when your songs stretch your vocal range as much as his do you have to use all the tricks not in the book to decorate and present the vocals and in his case that means using the rasp with the falsetto. the "helium" sound was the result of him singing without rasp.

in '02 axl's mic level was too high at the show i went to and you could barely hear the music and he certainly had more reason to hide his voice back then and yet he didn't. i could also hear him well in '06 in sync with the band. i am sure it depends on the venue and where you are sitting or standing at

Sorry man but this just sounds like a  fan trying to protect their hero. I saw him in three different venues in 2006

Hammerstien Ballroom in NY - 2nd row in the balcony. great show, Vocals were hard to hear.

Calgary Saddledome - Centre ice front row 1st balcony - shitty show,  Vocals were extremely hard to hear.  I also made way way to the floor. same problem. Vocals were almost non existant.

Rexall Place in Edmonton - About 10 rows up just off to the side/ front of the stage - good show,  Vocals were hard to hear and sometimes the mic was obviously turned off. In fact they did the entire Paradise City with no vocals. That's complete and utter bullshit. 

So three different venues of different sizes and acoustics all with the same problem. Like it or not Axl's live vocals or vocal mix  suck compared to other artists. I just saw the Foo Fighters in Rexall Place and Dave Grohls vocals powerd over the music no problem. I just saw the Cure at Red Rocks in Colorado and Robert's vocals were crisp and clear. I'm going to see David Usher next week and his vocals as always will be prominant. Justify it all you want but I've seen Axl too many times and have seen way too many other shows to think he's on par. That or his sound guys suck major fucking ass. One way or the other it blows in comparison.  Of everyone(9 people) I saw Gn'R with in 2006 the biggest complaint(and there were alot) was Axl's vocals. Not that it sounded bad but that it didn't sound at all. Why is that?

Sorry. It's a highjacking. 16

#3569 Re: The Sunset Strip » The Ultimate Showdown #1...WINNER ANNOUNCED » 889 weeks ago

I had to vote for Brian as my favorite AC/DC songs were sung by him. Having said that I have started to lean more towards Bon over the last few years so it was close but I gave the edge to Brian.

#3570 Re: The Sunset Strip » Duran Duran: 'Madonna Copied Us' » 889 weeks ago

James Lofton wrote:

They looked pathetic long before this.

Yeah, everyone works with Timbaland. MIA worked with Timbaland before Duran Duran, does that mean they copied her?

Douche bags...

No it means MIA copied Nelly Furtado. 16

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