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#501 Re: Guns N' Roses » Guns N' Roses Official Site Updated » 884 weeks ago

madagas wrote:

ps what I mean with the tracklist and as I have said hundreds of times before, tracklists can be changed literally up until 3-4 weeks before release. Since we still don't have a release date and are probably a few months from any possibility of a release, the tracklist is open for change and thus the style of the album can change as well.:/ The band needs to fit the style of the album.

Good point.

The choice of Shackler's Revenge as the first single also sets up certain anticipations. Without actually hearing the track its hard to say, but it looks to be a quite solid rocker. That track will have the unenviable duty to represent the whole of CD to the masses, which means it shouldn't write checks the album can't cash.

You don't represent an album full of ballads with a Bucket rocker, that's insane.

#502 Re: Guns N' Roses » Guns N' Roses Official Site Updated » 884 weeks ago

You could indeed say Shackler's Revenge is the Oh My God of GNR08.

The situation's better overall, though. Even if Azoff is infamous for making ends meet, he's still good news when compared to Doug Goldstein, or even 'Mr Nice Guy', Merck, who mostly succeeded in pampering Axl as he was such an artist admirer.

Merck cannot claim credit for finishing the CD project, he didn't come even close. What he did was afford Axl a few extra years in La-La land. Azoff, however, wants the record out and he wants it out clean, big and professional, because he realizes the value of the GNR brand. If done right, releasing CD is only the first step in the years to come in parting avid fans from their dime...

#503 Re: Guns N' Roses » Shackler's Revenge: REALLY confirmed » 885 weeks ago

The first officially released song in nine years.

9

#504 Re: Guns N' Roses » Shackler's Revenge: REALLY confirmed » 885 weeks ago

madagas wrote:

I imagine it will be announced on Billboard or Reuters or Business Wire. Something like that. Billboard updates their site around 10-11am.

Mysteron:

There will be a press release at 10.30PST

From EA/Harmonix, it seems. It should officially confirm the inclusion of GNR and Shackler to Rock Band 2. That's around 2½ hours away, so we'll see what happens.

#505 Re: The Sunset Strip » Why are people so obsessed with celebrities? » 885 weeks ago

Would like to add that I certainly believe people like Paris Hilton live in a vast spiritual vacuum, as the world around them is essentially fabricated. Therefore, it should come as no surprise that Axl, for one, has been desperately longing to establish a greater spiritual framework to his own life, with perpetual associations to various New Age groups in the 90's standing as proof for that. Ironically, his professional career relates quite well to the Aristotelian myth of the tragic hero.

Such are the five traits of a tragic hero:

1. Nobility (of a noble birth) or wisdom (by virtue of birth). (In Axl's case, the release of AFD, and the eventual rise to fame.)

2. Hamartia (translated as flaw or error in judgment). Either a mistake in the character's actions or in his personality that leads to a downfall. (The UYI tour, letting things go over his head, the departure of Izzy. Awkward stage antics, riots and rants.)

3. A reversal of fortune (peripeteia) brought about because of the hero's Hamartia. (The departure of Slash and inevitably, Duff and Matt. The disbanding of the group that made him in the first place.)

4. The discovery or recognition that the reversal was brought about by the hero's own actions (anagnorisis) (Jury's still out on this one.)

5. The audience must feel pity and fear (fear that it could have been them) (catharsis) for the character. (Struggle for a new album. The release of CD and settling of the scores. A reckoning.)


However, it should be noted that the end of the tragic hero is caused by an irreversible mistake, and the story ends with an honorable death. Therefore, if Axl faces the music and releases CD, his best efforts will cause his demise, at least in a professional sense. He can never undo the damage caused at an earlier point, while he may be able to level his karma.

The CD saga is basically Theatrics 101. I'm not sure whether Axl himself would enjoy the situation, but that's showbiz.

#506 Re: The Sunset Strip » Why are people so obsessed with celebrities? » 885 weeks ago

"We are the middle children of history, raised by television to believe that someday we'll be millionaires and movie stars and rock stars, but we won't. And we're just learning this fact." - Fight Club, Chuck Palahniuk

A very interesting question. Obviously, the word 'celebrity' is closely related to the verb 'celebrate', as in 'a celebrated person'. Back in the day, people were indeed literally celebrated for their insight, craftmanship or beneficial deeds towards society. They were the talk of the town; hence, they were well-known. The concept was simple: certain individuals gained fame for their positive actions, attributes and/or deeds, in which cases they became pinnacles of the society, resulting in setting an example to the commons. But that's low-key celebritarianism (a term shamelessly nicked from Marilyn Manson).

The worship received by the likes of Axl Rose is also connected to the hero cults. If we take him as a case example, many people relate distinct feelings and events of their personal lives to the music and lyrics of Guns N' Roses, at which point the image they have of the songs, the music and the band begins to live a life of its own in their respective minds. The conception of GNR and Axl may begin to receive shades which are in no direct contact to his person or the reality surrounding the band, as they are the creation of ones personal imagination. At some point, Axl may indeed come across as somone speaking directly to you, understanding how you feel and belting your pain out in a manic frenzy. At this point, when one sees him onstage, he sees not Axl Rose, the frontman, but Axl Rose, the 'voice of me', an illusion put on a pedestal, which caters an idealistic view of the world.

Of course, these people often sympathatize greatly with the real-life counterparts of their private heroes, living vicariously through the ups and downs of their professional careers and often the personal lives as well. This is all within maintaining a certain connection to the hero as a living entity, rather than an immaterial being which lives on in recordings and posters on the wall. Axl's seclusion from the society certainly made it easier for a lot of people to digest the downfall of the original lineup, as they were able to shelter themselves around the idea that the brilliant hermit has gone into isolation to create an album compared to which all previous, beloved releases have been the merest taper.

By this, I am referring to 'hero identification', which is essentially the same thing as reading a book or watching a movie in which one noticeably roots to the protagonist. Enough similar traits or experiences are to be found in the hero for the connection to be realized, at which point the spectator bonds with him and begins to co-exist as that person, who has traits the spectator finds desireable to his own character. At this point, we're leering towards fan culture in general, which goes on to show the wide array of topics your simple question covers.

Despite the level of mental involvement towards the 'hero' or 'idol', fans are basically out to practice their primordial hunter/gatherer-instincts. They spent more time on the subject in general than a person not particularly in the same area would, wish to converse with likeminded people and have a desire to acquire memorabilia, information, what-have-you on the subject. In short, they're out to create groups around a certain idea. It's a very human characteristic and the world of the computers is making it all the more easier. One thing I found about fan societies is an interesting one, and relates directly to the GNR communities, for one:

"The likelihood for a subject of interest to be elevated to the level of fandom appears to be dictated by its complexity. Complexity allows further involvement of fans for a longer period of time because of the time needed to work the subject of interest 'out.' It also contributes to a greater sense of belonging because of the mental effort invested in the subject. This could be why sci-fi is so popular, some fans feel the need to work out all the scientific kinks in these programs. One example for Star Trek is that a group of fans designed blueprints for federation starships."  - Wikipedia

Obviously, CD fits the bill!

But I digress. I'm now hoping to mention the mass media and provide hopefully with some clouded conclusions. As television and the internet now greatly command the Western worlds perception of things, celebrities no longer need to establish themselves through merit. As the talk of the town can now be moderated through electric communication, people merely need to be put on display (as in Robert Ripley's Odditorium) and treated with an advertising campaign in order to receive a 'well-known' status. Paris Hilton makes a good example. While her last name evokes certain connotations within us, it was the sex tape that got people to know her. After that, film appearances, reality shows, records, perfumes and court cases have been sold to the public not for their particular merits (if any), but by the fact that they are related to Paris Hilton, the chick from the nightshot wank fest.

Therefore, at this point, the concept of celebrity has been turned completely around and certain people 'break through' before they have managed to forge an identity (artistic or otherwise) to earn their celebrity status. Now, the celebrity status is used to market their subsequent ventures, making them what have been called 'human pseudo-events', well-known for being well-known. This also (rather alarmingly) suggest towards branding people like trademarks, with various consumer products released during their tick-tocking fifteen minutes of shame.

Capitalism has finally found a sure-proof way to gather the profits from the unassuming hunter-gatherer, who merely wishes to identify with his idol.

#507 Re: Guns N' Roses » What happend between 04-06 » 885 weeks ago

Scabbie wrote:

Was there any more detail about which song was going to be on this, or whethert the rumour was credible?

I believe Canyon News first reported it on 09/18/05.

Even though Axl Rose is facing legal problems, it didn't stop him from chatting and signing an autograph for a fan in Malibu a few weeks ago. Axl told the fan "Chinese Democracy" will be released early next year, and Guns N Roses is also looking to put a new song on "The Da Vinci Code" movie soundtrack. The movie, based on Dan Brown's controversial best-selling novel, is currently in production and stars Tom Hanks. Could 2006 be the year for legendary Axl Rose?

My sources tell me it was either Shackler's Revenge or the earth-shattering My Favorite Pillow.

#508 Re: Guns N' Roses » What happend between 04-06 » 885 weeks ago

Just found the file, so you got your wish.

--

- 04/April-May: Axl moves over to Curt Cuomo's studio at Woodland Hills, California.

- 04/07/04: "I was informed by a mutual friend that Axl Rose was possibly interested in a replacement for Buckethead so I expressed my own interest. Mr. Stinson got the word and called me. He didn't really elaborate about the status of GN'R's relationship with  Buckethead at the time but would only say that he wanted to get back with me and would definitely let me know what is up when the timing was right." Ajax Garcia

- 05/04/04: Slash and Duff sue Axl over control of the back catalogue.

- 07/04/04: VH1's Behind the Music episode on GNR states that CD is set for a November 2004 release.
- 07/05/04: GNR management promptly deny that any release date exists.

- 07/06/04: Axl loses the case regarding the release of Hollywood Rose against Cleopatra Records, whom he sued in June.

- 07/16/04: Paul DeCarli's online resume states he has done digital editing for CD. This entry was not yet posted in February.

- 08/05/04: "Brain is putting percussion on the album as I write. It is correct that he has played on Tom Waits album in his spare time but GN'R is his priority." Merck

- 08/25/04: Tommy goes on tour.

- 09/24/04: Brain goes on tour.

- 09/30/04: "I was asked to join GUNS N' ROSES two months ago. [...] Have yet to speak with Axl - spoke to their engineer about when to come out and lay geetar tracks on the album, spoke to their manager about lotsa stuff, their keyboardist Chris, but that's all that's been goin' on so far." - Ron Thal / official site, forum

- 10/10/04: "I heard stuff before I left the States, some of the final mixes, or close to final mixes of a bunch of the stuff we've been working on for the record." Tommy / HTGTH interview

- 10/12/04: GNR management deny that any guitar player has been asked to join the band.

- 10/22/04: GTA: San Andreas is shipped; Axl is one of the voice talents.

- 11/xx/04: Peter van Geel, the organiser of the Graspop Metal Meeting, offered a spot for GNR in the coming summer. The festival would be held on 05/24-26. At the time, van Geel was told that the band was considering whether to tour at the time. / Gigger

- 01/20/05: Tommy mentions that the Philly incident is still in litigation, but hopes for the record to come out in April. South Philly Review.com

- 01/26/05: Axl signs on to Sanctuary Publishing.
- 01/26/05: Tommy says that CD still has "some vocal parts and mixes" unfinished. Pioneer press

- 02/11/05: Tommy's tour wraps up. The band members supposedly gather up for a status conference during the following week. His subsequent touring plans are put on hold by Sanctuary.

- 03/05/05: The most expensive album never made - NY Times
- 03/06/05: Merck writes to NY Times, saying that the band, their two engineers and Axl "have been working on the actual album for the past two years". He  implies the album is set to come out in 2005.

- 04/10/05: IRS leaks in full.

- 04/27/05: Axl is ordered by Cleopatra Records' legal bills concerning the Hollywood Rose suit. After the June '04 trial, Axl re-sued them in November '04, and again in April '05. He lost every time.

- 05/01/05: "When was the last time you saw Axl?" "About a year ago." Sp1at / Brain
- 05/14/05: "When was the last time you contacted Axl?" "3 months ago." Sp1at / Brain

- 05/21/05: John 5 confirms to be "in talks" to tour with GNR. GNRwire

- 06/23/05: "Axl is still finishing up vocals on the record" Sp1at / Fortus

- 07/04/05: "Axl Rose has now moved out of Curt Cuomo's studio and Jason Evigan of the After Midnight Project has moved in." GNRwire

- 08/17/05: Slash and Duff sue Axl over unreceived royalties, spurred by his signing over to Sanctuary Publishing.

- 08/22/05: "ChiDem is not completely finished.  However, it is close." Fortus / e-mail to a fan

- 08/26/05: "the Guns '˜n Roses cd is done and it rocks (not his exact words)" Merck / Ross Halfin blog

- 09/03/05: "I saw [Axl] in the Sanctuary office a month ago [...] he looked great - like Axl The Rock Star again." Classic Rock / John Kalodner

- 09/18/05: Rumors about a song on the Da Vinci Code soundtrack.

- 09/19/05: "I'm told there may be news on the GNR front coming soon" Tommy / Official site

- 10/19/05: Fortus announces he'll tour with Nena for the rest of the year.

- 17/11/05: Welcome to the Jungle: The Very Best of Guns N' Roses, a 2-disc 'Best of', is said to have a release date of 12/20/05. Online retailers
- 19/11/05: "[Slash and I] discuss the two versions of Guns N' Roses Greatest Hits Vol II. One is done by Axel's management. Slash says the track listing is good but the politics from Axel's management leave a lot to be desired. The other is done by Universal. Slash tells me he hasn't approved either, so who knows what'll come out." Ross Halfin blog

- 01/10/06: In an interview Tommy mentions he visited the studio in December to record "a quick interlude to another song" (apparently, Richard did the same during that time). Rhono Records Podcast

--

Did this answer the question?

#509 Re: Guns N' Roses » What happend between 04-06 » 885 weeks ago

I have a file on that era on another computer. Will take a few weeks to get down and retrieve it. (Yeah, I keep files. Really.) So I'll go by memory.

In short, Brain toured with Tom Waits and Colonel Claypool's Bucket of Bernie Brains, Tommy toured with Jesse Malin and Alien Crime Syndicate behind VGH, Dizzy went with Hookers N' Blow. Axl relocated to Curt Cuomo's studio to work on CD some more after the label funding was cut, digital editing and percussion were being put together, the band did get together at least in early '05 for an all-around status conference. Late '04 Axl was seen in the Universal lot, in mid/late '05 he visited the Sanctuary offices. The Welcome to the Jungle: The Very Best of GNR started happening in late '05, along with Slash's allusions in Ross Halfin's blog that there was indeed something going on. Slash visited Axl's house to much later fanfare in October '05 and met with Beta, to whom he confided on how he really thought about VR. Halfin also mentioned a one-off reunion was planned to happen at Download '06.

Merck and Axl drew out the tour plans in early February '06, with no new guitarist still in place - they were still after Bucket.

The Bumblefoot thing started happening in July '04, he was approached and he was almost hired back then. GNR held some auditions and asked Joe Satriani for recommendations. John 5 was another potential candidate. Of course, nothing really substantial happened and BBF was ousted in the fall of '04 because he started talking. Late April '06 he was contacted again, and his good nature is what saved GNR from a disaster, as he let bygones be bygones.

The recording was still unfinished as of early '06, with an estimate of 5-7 studio days for Axl. He finished recording in January '07.

The NYT article is probably the most interesting thing that went public in that era.

---

James, you ever asked Eva to Evo? She's still around HTGTH.


James Lofton wrote:

inquiring minds like sic,madagas, evagnraxlrosette(I miss her), and others did amazing breakdowns of all that Axl/Slash legal crap.

The forum members themselves literally kept those big sites from sinking. If you guys, specifically the younger members here, think the news has been bad since 06, too bad I cant send you back to 2005 for a brief spell.:haha:

Looking back, that was my favorite time at HTGTH. Really had a lot of fun with maddy and the bunch. Guess it tells you something about the place. 16

#510 Re: Guns N' Roses » Rumor: Unheard GNR song on Rockband 2 » 885 weeks ago

So, we have a full 13-song track listing rounded up now? That only took around 2½ years.

CD
Better
Maddy
The Blues

IRS
If the World
Prostitute
This I Love

Rhiad and the Bedouins
Atlas Shrugged
TWAT
Shackler's Revenge
Sorry

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