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#51 Re: Guns N' Roses » Whats the opinion people in your life have on CD? » 889 weeks ago
Bright Eyes 2005 wrote:Bono, really what are you trying to prove? Who is saying or obsessed with this being a mass appealing album? Faldor certainly doesn't give a shit. The only people who keep harping on these points, are those who keep saying that GNR fans should go run into a hole because the album did not sell 1 million copies in a month in the United States. Who gives a shit?
I give a shit when people I've conversed with for years who seem like smart people start sounding like Axl Rose himself. Drumming up every excuse in the book why the album has "failed". If nobody gives a shit than why do some keep pointing to lack of promo and lack of Axl doing this and and lack of radio play and how bands like AC/DC are only moving units thanks to Wal-Mart. It's sonds idiotic. blah fucking blah is all it is. It sounds lieka bunch of fans getting defensive and trying to convince temselevs it's not the album it's the world. If nobody cares than nobody should be bicthing about how they feel the album was marketed poorly. EVERYBODY CARES it seems cause like I've said had this album been a rip roaring #1 smash hit everyone and their dog would use sales as a measuring stick but when things didn't go the way some fantasized suddenly the public are morons, the promo campaigne sucks and sales don't matter. It's irritating to hear smart people flip a switch like this. I promise you if U2's album sells the way CD does it'll be considerd a failure. hell Pop sold 6 million copies and it's still considerd a failure even by those who say sales don't matter. Tell me you understand what I'm saying here. Love the album enjoy it for yourself but the excuses as to why the album hasn't sold off the charts are weak at this point. the album free falled off the charts. That's says something. Alot of things in fact so aknowldege them all.
Maybe people are just pointing out facts, when people and spammers keep noting and pointing the discussion back towards album sales or whatever. I would not have used album sales as a measuring stick, so not EVERYONE cares. Who has been making excuses about anything in this thread? You seem to keep bringing this stuff up yourself, and then are throwing a temper tantrum like a two year old. If you can't handle the speed, try heroin.
#52 Re: Guns N' Roses » Whats the opinion people in your life have on CD? » 889 weeks ago
faldor wrote:Bright Eyes 2005 wrote:This whole thread is full of a lot of hot steam, coming from hot-headed blowhards who seem to think their opinion about music is universal and absolute. Well, I hate to break it to you, but music and art are subjective. There is no right or wrong, and that is only thing I can say. Saying something is a failure because of early sales #'s is a joke, as is saying something is a success because of huge sales. Doesn't really matter.
Very true, apparently though we are wrong for thinking CD is good. Because it hasn't blown up the billboard charts and some people don't view it as mind blowing or earth shattering, I guess it must not be good. I guess I should go burn my copy of CD, since it's such a worthless piece of garbage. Thank you all for helping me see the light.
I must be crazy. I actually thought I liked it. I've been listening to it nonstop since I got it a month ago. What was I thinking? How could I possibly have liked music that Britney Spears and Kanye West fans don't approve of?
Nobody is saying that and by suggesting we are Faldor you sound like a jaded pissed off fan who is angry the public doesn't see it as a masterpiece or love it the way you do. If you love it that's great. I wouldn't want you to dislike it. I've never said anyone who lies is a retard. But I would like people on these boards to pull the fucking blinders off and admit that it's not a mass appealing album. there's nothing wrong with that but to sit here and read fucking conspiracy theories why he public doesn't revel in it the way forum fasn are is ridiculous. Everyone keeps saying the album speaks for itself. Yeah but only to those who enjoy it. Those who don't are mindless sheep who have been manipulated by Wal-Mart into buying Black Ice instead. It's like some of you are saying anyone who doesn't like it is a fucking moron. Has it blown up the billboard charts peole would be using sales as an arguement for the album but since sales were less than stellar it all Wal-Marets fault for brainwashing people or it's Best buy's fault for failing at promoting it or it's Axl's fault for not doing an interveiw or whatever. Sure those things can be taken into account but if fans are gonna keep saying the music will speak for itself just tell me how long we have to wait for it to speak up? I'm pretty sure the music is speaking for itself right now and alot of people disagree with what it's saying. Too may of you refuse or for whatever reason are affraid to admit the public isn't gonan like it teh way you do. I don't get that.
I love The National for example. I think the songs are amazing. Most everyone I know who I've shown them too think they are boring as hell. Does that make them a fucking idiot for not likeing them? Does it make me a fucking idiot for likeing them? Or does it just mean the album isn't appealing to the mainstreme public no matter how much I enjoy it. I use my common sense to to aknowledge it's just not the type of album that appeals to most. Nobody's a fucking idiot but if I couldn't see the reality of that than yes I'd be the idiot.
Bono, really what are you trying to prove? Who is saying or obsessed with this being a mass appealing album? Faldor certainly doesn't give a shit. The only people who keep harping on these points, are those who keep saying that GNR fans should go run into a hole because the album did not sell 1 million copies in a month in the United States. Who gives a shit? I could care less what the public thinks, or what Entertainment Weekly thinks, or certainly what your messed up Anger Projecting ass thinks. Like I said, I like the lack of pandering to the paparazzi and sensational/superficial media. Fuck em all!
One more thing, some of you are purposely manipulating what people say, trying to paint them as something they are not, just to attack them. That is not cool.
#53 Re: Guns N' Roses » Whats the opinion people in your life have on CD? » 889 weeks ago
I guess I just see it differently, I just don't see music in a sports context, or competitive context. I enjoy it, and the rest is for the business side to take care of; the business side, as Lester Bangs said, ruined the fabric of what makes music and live shows great! I really admire, and enjoy GNR taking a low key approach to this whole thing. I mean, if I was a member of the band, I would be laughing at these boards obsession with commercial aspects of the album, and all kinds of fickle superficial attempts to demean it.
Really, I don't give a flip what Metallica, ACDC or whoever did sales wise. I like Metallica, and I like GNR--if they put out an album, I buy it and either enjoy it or not, but joe schmo telling me not to like it, or the media saying not to like it because it only sold a few million or whatever don't mean a fuck to me.
#54 Re: Guns N' Roses » Whats the opinion people in your life have on CD? » 889 weeks ago
faldor wrote:Bright Eyes 2005 wrote:This whole thread is full of a lot of hot steam, coming from hot-headed blowhards who seem to think their opinion about music is universal and absolute. Well, I hate to break it to you, but music and art are subjective. There is no right or wrong, and that is only thing I can say. Saying something is a failure because of early sales #'s is a joke, as is saying something is a success because of huge sales. Doesn't really matter.
Very true, apparently though we are wrong for thinking CD is good. Because it hasn't blown up the billboard charts and some people don't view it as mind blowing or earth shattering, I guess it must not be good. I guess I should go burn my copy of CD, since it's such a worthless piece of garbage. Thank you all for helping me see the light.
I must be crazy. I actually thought I liked it. I've been listening to it nonstop since I got it a month ago. What was I thinking? How could I possibly have liked music that Britney Spears and Kanye West fans don't approve of?
Who is saying that? I don't see those sorts of things here. No one is asking people to throw the album in the garbage can.
The GNR name has always been at a certain standard. Before this album was released, everyone would have agreed. Now that it didn't set the world on fire, all of a sudden album sales and the legacy mean nothing. The Billboard charts don't dictate what I listen to. Santogold shits all over this album in my opinion, yet she has less sales than CD. However, nothing is expected of her. She doesn't have a band name to live up to.
You can like whatever it is you like. There's nothing wrong with pointing out this album went over like a walrus turd for Thanksgiving dinner. It doesn't change the hardcore fans opinions regarding the music itself.
That Santogold album is quite good, and a completely different type of music (saying it shits all over the CD, though, is hilarious--like comparing an orchestra to the Sex Pistols, where both are good)--like I was saying in a thread above, there are so many different options, and styles of music to choose from, which I love, that are available now for purchase, that sales are not the gold standard they were even twenty years ago. The internet, has served as diaspora of sorts regarding music getting into the hands of those who can distribute it.
#55 Re: Guns N' Roses » Whats the opinion people in your life have on CD? » 889 weeks ago
In 2008, using mediocre sales to determine what is great or not, classic or not would be far less accurate than it was thirty or forty years ago--there are hundreds of more options, genres, etc. to choose from. Moreover, I don't know about how much you have been paying attention to the music industry, but something that moves 450,000 units stateside in one month, and 1.5 million in the world in 2008 is good. Radio, traditional media, tv, etc. have deteriorated as the talent pool has moved into other fields and their influence has subsided as well.
#56 Re: Guns N' Roses » Whats the opinion people in your life have on CD? » 889 weeks ago
For the past week, all I have read on a few GNR boards is that the 1.5 million people who have bought the CD are retarded, and especially idiots if they like it. Those who dis-like it, seem dead set on posting for days on end trying to justify and prove that people who like the CD are total morons, abject of minds, ears, and the ability to correctly judge music. Much of what I like, others do not, and I am fine with that. Does not make me dumb, or my neighbor dumb, or mean they have bad taste, because we like different music. I mean, outside of trying to argue that capitalistic manipulated Muzak (a la Milli Vanilli) is good or bad, this pretty much is like asking which came first, the chicken or the egg?
BTW, imho, the list Bono put together of what he believes are great albums seems boring, and blaze blaze to me. But I do enjoy his posts, and respect his opinion.
#57 Re: Guns N' Roses » Whats the opinion people in your life have on CD? » 889 weeks ago
This whole thread is full of a lot of hot steam, coming from hot-headed blowhards who seem to think their opinion about music is universal and absolute. Well, I hate to break it to you, but music and art are subjective. There is no right or wrong, and that is the only thing I can say. Saying something is a failure because of early sales #'s is a joke, as is saying something is a success because of huge sales. Doesn't really matter.
#58 Re: Guns N' Roses » Whats the opinion people in your life have on CD? » 889 weeks ago
Bright Eyes 2005 wrote:99% of those who say they don't like it are mindless sheep, as someone said earlier, just following the trend--most have never heard a single note off the album. I run into these dipshits all the time--yesterday it was Fall Out Boy, today it's Kings of Leon, etc. ad nauseum. GNR laying low on the promo may work to their advantage in the long run, as opposed to ACDC selling out to Wal Mart (cheesiest mass marketing capitalistic screed on the planet). I think it is going to backfire on them soon as far as credibility goes. The second single off Black Ice is horrid, and they are just pushing product due to Wal Mart brainwashing. CD, for some reason or another, is going to be judge ultimately on music, and music alone, as the low key marketing is forcing it to become something one hears due to "word of mouth" instead of corporate jockeying. For some odd reason, I get the feeling that is going to be a positive in the next year. Weird to say it, but GNR maybe gaining some street credibility back, by doing the exact opposite of what the "machine" says your supposed to.
People, esp. females I have met, who get a few peaks of this, are becoming increasingly curious about it. A few have told me flat out that they love "Prostitute", "If the World", "Better" and "This I Love". Females...I think GNR have not even pushed this to that fanbase yet. Weird thing, anyone I know that hears Better or Sorry are like "that is amazing"! These are twenty somethings who know nothing of GNR or their legacy. If a few people, and the media starts saying "GNR is cool" there could be a bunch of idiots who now think it's ok to like GNR. Funny how it works.
Me, I don't give a flippin fuck! I love the album, and the discussion about it has been fabulous!
Happy Holidays to all of you at GNR Evolution!! Peace!
This is a fucking joke right?. AC/DC only being successful based on Wal-mart's brainwashing? Kings of Leon lumped in with Fall out Boy? For your information Kings of Leon have 4 albums and they are all fucking awesome albums. 99% of the people who don't like CD are mindless sheep? Gimme a fucking break. This reaks of denial in a major way. And to even sugest that AC/DC will suffer a backlash due to a lack of street cred by using Wal-Mart if fucking moronic. Like at this point in their career people are gonna turn a deaf ear to AC/DC cause they sold their albums through Wal-Mart. Please. Sorry Bright Eyes but that post sounds like a dellusional Axl fan who's unable to comprehend the reality of the situtaion and instead digs up the most ridiculous excuses to justify what's happening in regards to CD's commercial success. Gn'R regaining cred cause they didn't suck Wal-Mart's dick? Oh MY FUYCKING GOD!. Now I've heard it all.
You said it yourself. At some point it's gonna be judged on the music alone. It's painfully ovbious far too many on this site will be far too stuborn to admit the music failed in the eyes of the public. For some of you maybe most it'll always be an endless line of excuses. Everything but the music will be blamed for CD's failure. And it'll always be 99% of people who dont' like it have never heard it and are just mindles dipshits
. Fucking unbelievable. If this was happening to any other band right now it'd be an issue of the quality of music but in Gn'R la la land it's a fucking conspiracy or some shit.
Well, that was quite a bar rant! And to say I'm delusional Axl freak is in stark contrast to reality. It's easy to misinterpret a post, so apology accepted!
Let me try to better explain:
Quite frankly, huge sales of a product, a la ACDC's, are deceiving. That is the gist of my statement--through the massive marketing push at Wal Mart, the product, to me, is becoming just another piece of plastic. It's not selling on it's merits musically, but sellling via impulse to the folks strolling through Wal Mart. Maybe backlash was not the correct phrasing, but I think the value (whatever value the generic album has) of the music is being diminished, as it is turning into just another product for Wal Mart to push.
On the other hand, CD, is not being pushed or marketed as something it is not. I believe, in the long run, this will help keep the integrity of the product as a musical piece of art, in tact. I have never bought into or expected massive sales, due to the new marketplace (downloading, current economic conditions, twenty years since their commercial rise, changing pop/mainstream musical styles, etc), and believe that the over emphasis on judging a piece of music, based solely on sales #'s is ludicrous at best. I really am impressed, and feal that not "mass-marketing" this to death is actually a smart, and admirable move by GNR--one which may not seem great today, but should help them keep their integrity in the long haul. Those who care about music, and care about quality, will find this album in due time, and find it satisfying aesthetically and satisfying for years to come, as opposed to just being appreciated for the "quickie-fix" like the Wal-Mart Blue light special. This is not crack, it's good coke. 
#59 Re: Guns N' Roses » Whats the opinion people in your life have on CD? » 890 weeks ago
99% of those who say they don't like it are mindless sheep, as someone said earlier, just following the trend--most have never heard a single note off the album. I run into these dipshits all the time--yesterday it was Fall Out Boy, today it's Kings of Leon, etc. ad nauseum. GNR laying low on the promo may work to their advantage in the long run, as opposed to ACDC selling out to Wal Mart (cheesiest mass marketing capitalistic screed on the planet). I think it is going to backfire on them soon as far as credibility goes. The second single off Black Ice is horrid, and they are just pushing product due to Wal Mart brainwashing. CD, for some reason or another, is going to be judge ultimately on music, and music alone, as the low key marketing is forcing it to become something one hears due to "word of mouth" instead of corporate jockeying. For some odd reason, I get the feeling that is going to be a positive in the next year. Weird to say it, but GNR maybe gaining some street credibility back, by doing the exact opposite of what the "machine" says your supposed to.
People, esp. females I have met, who get a few peaks of this, are becoming increasingly curious about it. A few have told me flat out that they love "Prostitute", "If the World", "Better" and "This I Love". Females...I think GNR have not even pushed this to that fanbase yet. Weird thing, anyone I know that hears Better or Sorry are like "that is amazing"! These are twenty somethings who know nothing of GNR or their legacy. If a few people, and the media starts saying "GNR is cool" there could be a bunch of idiots who now think it's ok to like GNR. Funny how it works.
Me, I don't give a flippin fuck! I love the album, and the discussion about it has been fabulous!
Happy Holidays to all of you at GNR Evolution!! Peace!
#60 Re: Guns N' Roses » Chinese Democracy Chart Positions Thread » 890 weeks ago
Don't even worry about all that other stuff.
I said it before - it's done. Finished.
Better was the best chance they had a hit, catchiest, radio-friendly track they had, and it no one cared. Hell CD was a bigger hit, and that's only because people were curious, and DJ's across the country were playing it to death in the first week, simply for the curious-factor, but it quickly faded after that.
I think Axl just likes his hardcore fan base these days, and that's it. The people that'll stick by him, let him make the kind of records he wants to make, and go out and buy them, and go out to shows. I don't think he's looking for mainstream success anymore. He doesn't care imo.
I think they will focus on this album for awhile, maybe tour the world (not the U.S.), and by next summer, they'll start prepping the second album for release.
If that is the case, I hope it works, because that is totally cool, and a very good place for an artist to be--success provided freedom. Most bands that take that route, have much freedom and release albums or EP's almost annually, and offer much content online for free to their fans. The only problem with that is, I am pretty sure I read GNR just re-did their contract with UMG, and I would imagine there are some sort of commercial expectations.
