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#671 Re: Guns N' Roses » Guns N' Roses Live From Rock In Rio » 716 weeks ago
Ali wrote:Bono wrote:Oh gee look at that. Seems like some mainstreme media to me. Can't believe anyone even suggested the media wasn't gonna pick up on that disater(argueably). I wish they'd focus more on the show(good or bad) rather than his weight. But I guess that's how it will go
"Fat Axl sounds like Shit"
That sucks but that's what articles and reviews are gonna be saying.
Please. I clearly stated that mainstream press in the US hasn't been covering the RIR festival and therefore it wouldn't affect the US tour ticket sales. That is an Aussie version of MTV. I highly doubt that will affect US tour ticket sales.
Ali
I've heard two different rock stations in MA and RI comment on Axl's bloated weight gain and poor performance in Rio.
I'll reiterate again that I said mainstream press (as in music press) in the US. No disrespect to those stations, but they aren't press outlets and they are local, not national. I was comparing and contrasting this RIR with RIR III where both MTV and RS covered the event and GN'R's set.
Ali
#672 Re: Guns N' Roses » Guns N' Roses Live From Rock In Rio » 716 weeks ago
Oh gee look at that. Seems like some mainstreme media to me. Can't believe anyone even suggested the media wasn't gonna pick up on that disater(argueably). I wish they'd focus more on the show(good or bad) rather than his weight. But I guess that's how it will go
"Fat Axl sounds like Shit"
That sucks but that's what articles and reviews are gonna be saying.
Please. I clearly stated that mainstream press in the US hasn't been covering the RIR festival and therefore it wouldn't affect the US tour ticket sales. That is an Aussie version of MTV. I highly doubt that will affect US tour ticket sales.
Ali
#673 Re: Guns N' Roses » Guns N' Roses Live From Rock In Rio » 716 weeks ago
Ali wrote:-D- wrote:no Bono was dead on.
If u continuously buy Golden St warrior season tickets and they go 20-62 every season.. consistently let their best players go to other teams and seem to have no desire to spend money or win, yes u are enabling the franchise by keeping them in business and giving them bigger profits without them having to put that money back into the team.
If u go as a one off to see what its all about.. u would be a casual fan and that isn't what we are talking about here.
of course GNR aren't the only band this pertains to. Hell Bon Jovi haven't tried to write a decent album in about 12 years.. but cause we keep buying all the shit ones.. they have no reason to change. If they make a shit album and we don't buy it.. maybe they will see that they gotta put a little more effort into it.
No, still not dead on. You're not seeing/reading/getting the whole gist of what I said. You completely missed/misunderstood/ignored the part about choosing to not jump to conclusions based on one show and the part about not agreeing that things are "bad" with GN'R. Sports franchises are different because there are objective criteria for the success of a sports franchise. The quality of music and/or live performances by an artist are entirely subjective. That is the thing, one of them at least, that you and Bono just are not getting. I don't HAVE TO agree with your opinion of the state of GN'R. You aren't right and I am not wrong.
Ali
True about the music not being as easy to quantify as sports. thats a good point but Im not saying you are wrong per se.. but Axl has shown a pattern of this.. isn't like this was a once in a blue moon thing. I'm saying, Axl goes on 2 hours late.. doesn't stay in shape, doesn't remember his lyrics, doesn't release albums etc etc cause he doesn't have to.. cause as soon as he shows up or does this or that all is forgiven and we continue the beaten wife syndrome pattern *another thread i started damn near half a decade ago* and feel honored we were graced with his presence at all.
I honestly don't care about Axl's physical conditioning beyond any impact it may have on his performance. I just don't care about that. The forgetting his lyrics thing...I think that's an overreaction to one blatant example that is the exception not the rule. The going on late thing is something I don't think is ideal, but to me is not a dealbreaker considering I go to shows once every few years. I think the quality of the shows by and large make up for the late starts. That's my opinion. As far as not releasing the album, to say the fans acted as enablers in the most recent example of that is not accurate. If anything the enablers were the record label funding the album for so much and so long.
I actually think that since the label cut him off financially, not going to shows would actually have an adverse affect on releasing new music because profits from the tour could and would be used to complete a new record (see Merck's 2006 open letter as confirmation of this being the case back then).
Ali
#674 Re: Guns N' Roses » Guns N' Roses Live From Rock In Rio » 716 weeks ago
Ali wrote:misterID wrote:I just mean jarmo could be acting to what he's witnessed. He's been to Axl's house and hung out with Beta, Fernando, Del and Beta's daughter. Maybe he's going along with what he's seen and observed. It would take an obsessive, fanboy douchebag to totally change your mentality like that.
I see what you're saying, but honestly, I'd say how someone runs their messageboard, more than anything, is indicative of some aspect of their personality.
Ali
Funny how a personality and how you run your messageboard can drastically change once you start getting perks from the band.... just saying.
There is a difference between correlation and a definitive causation.
We'll never know for sure.
Ali
#675 Re: Guns N' Roses » Guns N' Roses Live From Rock In Rio » 716 weeks ago
I just mean jarmo could be acting to what he's witnessed. He's been to Axl's house and hung out with Beta, Fernando, Del and Beta's daughter. Maybe he's going along with what he's seen and observed. It would take an obsessive, fanboy douchebag to totally change your mentality like that.
I see what you're saying, but honestly, I'd say how someone runs their messageboard, more than anything, is indicative of some aspect of their personality.
Ali
#676 Re: Guns N' Roses » Guns N' Roses Live From Rock In Rio » 716 weeks ago
Olorin wrote:misterID wrote:I'm not naive enough to think that anything I do or don't do will have any impact or sway in making Axl do anything.
I agree about HTGTH. The people left who post the Axlite posts is specifically because they think Axl reads that board. And licking jarmo's ass might be their "in" to Axl. Lame.
The funny thing is jarmo still gets these perks, but he has absolutely ZERO credibility, respect or sway among the GN'R fan community. It doesn't matter what he posts or deletes. People don't take that board serious anymore.
He makes my skin crawl, he'd throw his granny in front of a bus if it meant there was the chance to suckle on the teet of one of Axl's cronies.
The warped logic and psychotic elimination of opposing views over there is sickening.
Mabye thats an insight into the world of Axl, that kind of crazy fanatisism and distortion of reality cant just spring out of nowhere, cause it was an relatively open board of discussion beforehand, that methodology must have been drilled into jarmo from somewhere.^^
I think jarmo is operating with some obsessive fanboy's reaction to Axl. I really think he's operating and acting on his own accord but does take direction on deleting certain topics and shit. But you make a good point about it possibly being a glimpse into Axl's world. Scary stuff.
Monkey, I'm very interested in tomorrows show because of everything you just mentioned. I looked over at HTGTH and there's some "between the lines" code in some of the regular members posts that basically say it was a bad night and they're concerned.
But, if you agree that Jarmo's acting on his own accord, how do you figure it's a glimpse into Axl? Maybe his world, as in his handlers, but not necessarily him directly. Especially if Jarmo's acting on his own.
Ali
#677 Re: Guns N' Roses » Guns N' Roses Live From Rock In Rio » 716 weeks ago
misterID wrote:I'm not naive enough to think that anything I do or don't do will have any impact or sway in making Axl do anything.
I agree about HTGTH. The people left who post the Axlite posts is specifically because they think Axl reads that board. And licking jarmo's ass might be their "in" to Axl. Lame.
The funny thing is jarmo still gets these perks, but he has absolutely ZERO credibility, respect or sway among the GN'R fan community. It doesn't matter what he posts or deletes. People don't take that board serious anymore.
He makes my skin crawl, he'd throw his granny in front of a bus if it meant there was the chance to suckle on the teet of one of Axl's cronies.
The warped logic and psychotic elimination of opposing views over there is sickening.
Mabye thats an insight into the world of Axl, that kind of crazy fanatisism and distortion of reality cant just spring out of nowhere, cause it was an relatively open board of discussion beforehand, that methodology must have been drilled into jarmo from somewhere.
Or, it could be Jarmo's personal choice. I know many assume, but I've yet to see any conclusive link to show that how Jarmo runs his board is a direct edict from Axl. Hell, even if it was an edict, it may be more from Axl's people than anything else.
Ali
#678 Re: Guns N' Roses » Guns N' Roses Live From Rock In Rio » 716 weeks ago
Ali wrote:russtcb wrote:Oh I'm happy with my Chicago tickets and I'll be happy with my Detroit ones. My initial concern was that the tour happen at all based on Axl's whole attitude at RiR
Understood, but to suggest there is something wrong with buying tickets despite what, as of now, stands as a single bad show, is absurd to me.
Ali
I saw someone on mygnr started a thread to basically "pat themselves on the back" for having not bought tickets prior to Rock In Rio and how there's no chance they'll buy tickets now.
The way I look at that is "Yippie for you!". If you start a thread like that, you probably never had any intention on buying tickets, supporting the band and were probably hoping for the worst anyways.
My thing is this; I'm calling a spade a spade. RiR (IMO) was a bad show for Axl. Not because of his weight, not because of his voice, not because of the rain, not because SoaD ran over, not because he flugged some lyrics, simply because his attitude was terrible.
Having lived through A LOT of GN'R mishaps in the past 20 or so years as all of us have, I've seen his attitude get in the way more than anything. So I honestly became completely worried that his attitude at RiR meant that there might be some rough times ahead. Up to and including just plain cancelling the US Tour.
In any case, I'm still very happy I bought Chicago tickets, I'm looking forward to buying Detroit tickets and I sure as hell hope I get the chance to see both shows!
Man, I don't blame you for your concerns at all. They are valid. But, with respect, not buying a ticket for a show based on those concerns is one choice. It's not the choice everyone has to make, though, and it doesn't make it the "right" choice.
I've lived through a lot of GN'R mishaps in 23 years as a fan. One bad night hasn't been representative of a whole tour. Look at the 2002 VMAs. Was the 2002 MSG show as bad as that VMA performance? No and I think many would agree. So, I can safely say that to draw a conclusion that the 2002 tour would have been bad because of Axl's off night at the VMAs would have been an incorrect conclusion.
I agree with what you're saying about people having already made up their minds prior to Rio.
Ali
#679 Re: Guns N' Roses » Guns N' Roses Live From Rock In Rio » 716 weeks ago
Ali wrote:Bono wrote:No it isn't based on a faulty premise. It's no different than a shitty sports franchise selling out every game. They continue to put the same product on the ice or on the field with no serious attempts to improve yet fans still buy tickets every game and sell out, in essence enabling a franchise to spend less and remain mediocre. Sure every once in a whiel the team puts in a thrilling performance or goes on a run that gives fans hope but in typical fashion they crash and burn when it matters most and then the whole process of "rebuilding" starts all over but the organization doesn't have to worry about moving forward cause the homes games are still sold out.
Honestly Ali if people would stop buying tickets to the "Guns N' Roses" maybe Axl would actually move forward and do soemthnig but it's people who continue to buy tickets to this that are enabling him to keep the status quo. Which is no new albums, no new setlist(one song doesn't count), no new anything. Just the same old, same old.
I'm as guilty as anyone as I've bought tickets to the 2002, 2006 & 2010 tours. But the premise that fans are enabling this is not in the least bit faulty. It's pretty accurate.
It's all very common sense.
It is a faulty premise and it is not based on common sense. Sorry, but if someone doesn't look at the Rio show and assume it will be representative of the rest of the tour, it only means that they aren't jumping to the same conclusion others are. I don't HAVE TO sit here and say because of one bad show I won't go to a US show. That's because I won't jump to conclusions based off one data point as opposed to a larger sample size. That's personal choice and completely valid.
If I buy tickets to see the Golden State Warriors simply because I like the idea of seeing NBA basketball live and find it entertaining, even though the team isn't very competitive, that's completely valid and doesn't make me an enabler. It just makes me someone that enjoys NBA games as a means of having a good night out.
You don't see it apparently, but the fundamental problem with this "enabler" concept is that the opinion that things are bad, wrong or completely unacceptable is the correct and only opinion. That just isn't the case, or it wouldn't be a matter of opinion.
Ali
no Bono was dead on.
If u continuously buy Golden St warrior season tickets and they go 20-62 every season.. consistently let their best players go to other teams and seem to have no desire to spend money or win, yes u are enabling the franchise by keeping them in business and giving them bigger profits without them having to put that money back into the team.
If u go as a one off to see what its all about.. u would be a casual fan and that isn't what we are talking about here.
of course GNR aren't the only band this pertains to. Hell Bon Jovi haven't tried to write a decent album in about 12 years.. but cause we keep buying all the shit ones.. they have no reason to change. If they make a shit album and we don't buy it.. maybe they will see that they gotta put a little more effort into it.
No, still not dead on. You're not seeing/reading/getting the whole gist of what I said. You completely missed/misunderstood/ignored the part about choosing to not jump to conclusions based on one show and the part about not agreeing that things are "bad" with GN'R. Sports franchises are different because there are objective criteria for the success of a sports franchise. The quality of music and/or live performances by an artist are entirely subjective. That is the thing, one of them at least, that you and Bono just are not getting. I don't HAVE TO agree with your opinion of the state of GN'R. You aren't right and I am not wrong.
Ali
#680 Re: Guns N' Roses » Guns N' Roses Live From Rock In Rio » 716 weeks ago
Ali wrote:buzzsaw wrote:People are enablers, but there's too many of them to stop at this point. No point in trying to convince an enabler that they are an enabler either. If that represents something they feel is worth paying for, thrn let them pay. Logic won't change it.
This whole being an "enabler" thing is based on a faulty premise. It's assuming that A) others have to share the same opinion as you and/or B) others have to be willing to draw the same conclusion as to how the larger group of shows will turn out even if it is agreed upon that one performance was subpar. Having a differing opinion is just simply having a differing opinion.
Ali
No it isn't based on a faulty premise. It's no different than a shitty sports franchise selling out every game. They continue to put the same product on the ice or on the field with no serious attempts to improve yet fans still buy tickets every game and sell out, in essence enabling a franchise to spend less and remain mediocre. Sure every once in a whiel the team puts in a thrilling performance or goes on a run that gives fans hope but in typical fashion they crash and burn when it matters most and then the whole process of "rebuilding" starts all over but the organization doesn't have to worry about moving forward cause the homes games are still sold out.
Honestly Ali if people would stop buying tickets to the "Guns N' Roses" maybe Axl would actually move forward and do soemthnig but it's people who continue to buy tickets to this that are enabling him to keep the status quo. Which is no new albums, no new setlist(one song doesn't count), no new anything. Just the same old, same old.
I'm as guilty as anyone as I've bought tickets to the 2002, 2006 & 2010 tours. But the premise that fans are enabling this is not in the least bit faulty. It's pretty accurate.
It's all very common sense.
It is a faulty premise and it is not based on common sense. Sorry, but if someone doesn't look at the Rio show and assume it will be representative of the rest of the tour, it only means that they aren't jumping to the same conclusion others are. I don't HAVE TO sit here and say because of one bad show I won't go to a US show. That's because I won't jump to conclusions based off one data point as opposed to a larger sample size. That's personal choice and completely valid.
If I buy tickets to see the Golden State Warriors simply because I like the idea of seeing NBA basketball live and find it entertaining, even though the team isn't very competitive, that's completely valid and doesn't make me an enabler. It just makes me someone that enjoys NBA games as a means of having a good night out.
You don't see it apparently, but the fundamental problem with this "enabler" concept is that the opinion that things are bad, wrong or completely unacceptable is the correct and only opinion. That just isn't the case, or it wouldn't be a matter of opinion.
Ali
