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#681 Re: Guns N' Roses » Guns N' Roses Live From Rock In Rio » 716 weeks ago
People are enablers, but there's too many of them to stop at this point. No point in trying to convince an enabler that they are an enabler either. If that represents something they feel is worth paying for, thrn let them pay. Logic won't change it.
This whole being an "enabler" thing is based on a faulty premise. It's assuming that A) others have to share the same opinion as you and/or B) others have to be willing to draw the same conclusion as to how the larger group of shows will turn out even if it is agreed upon that one performance was subpar. Having a differing opinion is just simply having a differing opinion.
Ali
#682 Re: Guns N' Roses » Guns N' Roses Live From Rock In Rio » 716 weeks ago
Oh I'm happy with my Chicago tickets and I'll be happy with my Detroit ones. My initial concern was that the tour happen at all based on Axl's whole attitude at RiR
Understood, but to suggest there is something wrong with buying tickets despite what, as of now, stands as a single bad show, is absurd to me.
Ali
#683 Re: Guns N' Roses » Guns N' Roses Live From Rock In Rio » 716 weeks ago
Ali wrote:killingvector wrote:I'm sure the band and singer are working to solve the technical & performance issues. But one of the biggest problems was Axl's conditioning coming into the show. He was fat, slow, out of breath, and out of tune. He should have spent weeks preparing for the physical rigor of this upcoming tour. Instead, he shows up late and bloated.
I don't think these are simple fixes. US critics will crucify him for his appearance; and now because his singing is suffering too, he will be torn apart because of that as well.
Some have suggested that he will work himself in to touring shape. Well, there is a problem with that: word of mouth will work faster than his weight loss. This tour will be hurt by low ticket sales if Axl cannot achieve that level of indvidual success sustained in 06/07. Critics and audiences will not settle for half value at full ticket price. I don't even think the '10/11 version is good enough to impress audiences in the States.
Did his conditioning seem to be good? No. But, I don't see any significant difference in his appearance from the other night to 2010.
He has nearly a month's worth of shows before Orlando. He'll be much better off by then, both in terms of his physical and vocal conditioning. If he can sing as well as he did during the Canadian 2010 tour, I think it will be a great tour.
Ali
Seriously you dont see it? I dont want to keep going on about this, its kinda cruel, but folks acting blind to it is getting on my tits. If you cant see it...*deep breath - then howz about you count his chins compared to 2010, cause theres at least one more than the few that were there at the beginning of the last tour.
Yes, getting off his sofa for a while and performing will shed some pounds.
Yes, his vocals will no doubt improve as the tour rolls on... but fuck me, Axl looks worse than he ever has in his life. He might have been carrying a few extra pounds when he emerged to kick off the first tour in Asia, but he was still in powerfull form and spirits.This time its different, he's looks ill and his performance was bad (he's my favourite singer of all time, but that wont cloud reality -he stank the fucking place out) and on top of that he had a borderline breakdown on live TV.... but hey
Look at this picture posted on MyGNR. Honestly I do not see a noticeable difference between now and 2010. Maybe your impression of his overall performance is coloring your view of his appearance? Not saying that's wrong in any way, but it would be understandable.
http://www.mygnrforum.com/index.php?sho … &p=2925188
Ali
#684 Re: Guns N' Roses » Guns N' Roses Live From Rock In Rio » 716 weeks ago
Its the people who excuse this bullshit and still go out and buy tickets etc that allow it to continue.. people like on various websites who refuse to see/hear what is right in front of them and gloss over stuff as if GNR are some regular random band
For some shit band... any performance is acceptable... not for GNR.
I'll be the first to praise this band and give them credit.. but I am not gonna ignore the obvious for fear of what others will think. I don't give a shit if anybody in the band/management what have you read my posts. Enablers may be the biggest problem in the GNR universe. I do this with any band I love. So it isn't just piling on GNR or being an Old band fan blah blah etc
People have every right to go out and buy tickets to see a show regardless of how one show turns out. What a ridiculous thing to suggest otherwise! 
It's personal preference, and because others react differently than you do that doesn't make you right and them wrong. Get off your high horse.
Ali
#685 Re: Guns N' Roses » Guns N' Roses Live From Rock In Rio » 716 weeks ago
Neemo wrote:yeah he's pissed at himself for fuckign up the lyrics so many times....so he stations himself in front of the teleprompter so he doesnt lose sight of it in the glare of the stage lights....thats what it looks like to me anyway
anyway yeah there were a few fuckups and miscues but damn was still a good show overall imo...maybe my standards are lower than the rest of you fuckers...or myabe you are all crazy bastards for staying up all hours of the night to watch it...or for expecting new material cuz of some setlist of shady origins....i dunno i didnt expect all that shit so it was ok for me...Axl is even pretty into it at the end of PC...headbanging stomping and spinning the steering wheel mic stand....you crazy doomsayers need to fucking relax man..maybe give it a day or two and watch it again or something...it really wasnt nearly as bad as y'all made it out to be
peace out
no offense intended but this is the kind of fan attitude that allows the band to continuously underachieve and desecrate the legacy of one of the greatest bands of all time.
Maybe I am wrong for expecting more out of an all time great.
Wow, I had to read this post twice to make sure it actually said what I thought it did. You think the fans' attitudes has any impact whatsoever? Are you serious? Did the fans choose to not promote the album as well as it should have been? That certainly affected album sales. Did the fans have any role in any preparations or lack thereof by Axl and/or the band?
These are all choices made for whatever reason by the individuals involved directly in the band and/or its management. The fans and that kind of "fan attitude" had no bearing whatsoever on those decisions.
I'm sorry, but that comment is ridiculous.
Ali
#686 Re: Guns N' Roses » Guns N' Roses Live From Rock In Rio » 716 weeks ago
Going by your theory Ali pro sports teams would be just as well off if each individual player practiced on thier own in their back yard. Sorry but not rehearsing as a band(team) plays a huge part in it. It's only common sesne.
actually a better analogy would be like saying as long as actors in a broadway play knew their lines and practiced at home there'd be no benefit to an actual rehearsal in person with the other actors.
No, you completely misunderstood what I'm saying. You just don't get it. I've been singing for the vast majority of my life, and while I'm not a professional, I've learned a lot from some amazing teachers I've had. You do not need to work with your band to learn vocal melodies and lyrics and practice them. You do not need to work with your band to work on your diaphragmatic breathing. You do not need to work with your band to improve your cardiovascular conditioning. It just isn't necessary. There are other aspects, such as chemistry and timing that could be improved with full band rehearsals, but specific vocal preparations do not need full band participation. I don't know what else to say, but this is the truth. If anything was perhaps lacking, it was Axl's individual preparation.
Ali
#687 Re: Guns N' Roses » Guns N' Roses Live From Rock In Rio » 716 weeks ago
I'm sure the band and singer are working to solve the technical & performance issues. But one of the biggest problems was Axl's conditioning coming into the show. He was fat, slow, out of breath, and out of tune. He should have spent weeks preparing for the physical rigor of this upcoming tour. Instead, he shows up late and bloated.
I don't think these are simple fixes. US critics will crucify him for his appearance; and now because his singing is suffering too, he will be torn apart because of that as well.
Some have suggested that he will work himself in to touring shape. Well, there is a problem with that: word of mouth will work faster than his weight loss. This tour will be hurt by low ticket sales if Axl cannot achieve that level of indvidual success sustained in 06/07. Critics and audiences will not settle for half value at full ticket price. I don't even think the '10/11 version is good enough to impress audiences in the States.
Did his conditioning seem to be good? No. But, I don't see any significant difference in his appearance from the other night to 2010.
He has nearly a month's worth of shows before Orlando. He'll be much better off by then, both in terms of his physical and vocal conditioning. If he can sing as well as he did during the Canadian 2010 tour, I think it will be a great tour.
Ali
#688 Re: Guns N' Roses » Guns N' Roses Live From Rock In Rio » 716 weeks ago
Ali wrote:johndivney wrote:it isn't meaningless given it's indicative of the general malaise that has spoiled the band since 93
& the fact is, Axl's lack of preparation is a variable each night.
i believe he had at least one rehearsal before HOB 01 & he rehearsed & soundchecked a couple times since 06 but like Bono, or anyone sensible, says practice (& familiarity) make an incredible difference in how you perform your job. i agree he had an off night, i've said as much ten pages ago, but you minimise the chances of an off night thru practice. you think the world's best chef doesn't cook a meal for over a yr is gonna make a masterpiece with their first attempt?! an athlete sits out a season, does train then expects to be a champion first game back?
i dunno what gig you watched but Axl's lack of prep (& professionalism) was p obv to me.It isn't a post-'93 occurrence, though. That is what Axl himself said at the first new GN'R gig, ever. He doesn't rehearse with the band, never has. The issue may be his individual preparation if anything, not the prep with the band. The lack of that type of preparation has been a constant throughout GN'R's history so it cannot be a variable in this case.
As you yourself said, preparation can help minimize the chances of an off night, but it does not ever completely eliminate the chance of an off night.
Frankly speaking, it's impossible to know what Axl did or didn't do, and to what extent, to prepare without him telling us or us being there.
Ali
just because Ron posted vids of rehearsals doesn't mean those rehearsals were successful (god knows BBF does post a lotta gash online & figure into it the sour end result of the little experiment had on morale)
it's been a constant variable thruout the history which is precisely why it's likely to be relevant here. it's just history repeating itself. there have been as many bad gigs as there have been perfect gigs, prob more..
the guy can't sing his own songs w/o a lyric sheet in front of him! you could maybe excuse him if he'd been busy doing other GnR-related endeavors but it's really just his laziness. he does what he wants & to hell w/the consequences cause he still gets paid & it's only the diminishing fanbase who suffer.it's both it's meant to be a team game. Axl excused himself from the junkies & party lifestyle of the old guys, what's keeping him distant from these old guys? tommy's smelly feet? no, Axl's laziness. if they functioned as a team & a BAND maybe we wouldn't have to wait 18 yrs to get the setlist changed by a song - this is how it's not meaningless Axl's prep (lackthereof) influences everything about the band. he sets the tone. & it's a lousy one.
Oh, so now we don't know if the rehearsals were successful? When do we ever know if the rehearsals are succesful? Christ, give me a break.
There is a clear distinction between individual and group preparations. Axl has never prepared with the band. Preparing with the band is not necessary to condition your voice, work on your breath support and recall lyrics/melodies properly. It just isn't.
As far as that abstract concept that Axl's prep or lack thereof influences the band, that may be the case, or it may not be. Unless you have some consistent evidence that when in the rare cases where Axl preps with the band, it improves their performances, it's impossible to know for sure.
Ali
I'll say it one last time, which actually is what you yourself said
#689 Re: Guns N' Roses » Guns N' Roses Live From Rock In Rio » 716 weeks ago
Ali wrote:johndivney wrote:it's not unusual but it's also definitely not meaningless - it reconfirms all the bad news we've heard or assumed about this band. the only direction they're heading is towards easy money - but when you're as lazy as Axl then nothing comes easily.
again to stress the point it's 4 yrs since CD & the most we have to go on about new material was Tommy's admission & guesses from an interview/twitter a few weeks back.
it's evidence there is zero desire to move this band forward, that there's zero desire to try.edit - & we all know how well it's work post-AFD the band being separated by such distances..
It is meaningless, though. Axl said during the 01/01/01 HOB show something about how he never showed up for rehearsals with the band. So, that was not the variable last night. It just wasn't. Axl had an off night, period.
Ali
it isn't meaningless given it's indicative of the general malaise that has spoiled the band since 93
& the fact is, Axl's lack of preparation is a variable each night.
i believe he had at least one rehearsal before HOB 01 & he rehearsed & soundchecked a couple times since 06 but like Bono, or anyone sensible, says practice (& familiarity) make an incredible difference in how you perform your job. i agree he had an off night, i've said as much ten pages ago, but you minimise the chances of an off night thru practice. you think the world's best chef doesn't cook a meal for over a yr is gonna make a masterpiece with their first attempt?! an athlete sits out a season, does train then expects to be a champion first game back?
i dunno what gig you watched but Axl's lack of prep (& professionalism) was p obv to me.
It isn't a post-'93 occurrence, though. That is what Axl himself said at the first new GN'R gig, ever. He doesn't rehearse with the band, never has. The issue may be his individual preparation if anything, not the prep with the band. The lack of that type of preparation has been a constant throughout GN'R's history so it cannot be a variable in this case.
As you yourself said, preparation can help minimize the chances of an off night, but it does not ever completely eliminate the chance of an off night.
Frankly speaking, it's impossible to know what Axl did or didn't do, and to what extent, to prepare without him telling us or us being there.
Ali
#690 Re: Guns N' Roses » Guns N' Roses Live From Rock In Rio » 716 weeks ago
Ali wrote:Smoking Guns wrote:Don't agree Ali, their lack of preparing is the main reason they sounded like a monkey trying to fuck a football out there. This is how they make money, its the ONE thing they should take serious...
"Their" lack of preparing? Are you serious? Did you not read about how BBF streamed their rehearsals? How can you say that they didn't rehearse? That's completely false.
Axl didn't rehearse with the band, but we have no idea what kind of vocal work he did or didn't do on his own.
Ali
Yes, their lack of preparing as a band led to confusion and bad timing on many songs, including but not limited to, NR, Paradise City, Patience, etc. ron is the ONLY one that looked like he really practiced. The Backing Band and AXL all did very good on Estranged, its clear they took that one very seriously. Axl didn't have to rehearse much 91-93, they played a show every other night, that kept his vocal chops up..
Forget it. If you're going to ignore the facts, there's no discussing this with you. They rehearsed and rehearsed together. There is video proof of that. End of discussion.
Ali
