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#721 Re: The Garden » Bush Asks Congress for $700 Billion Bailout » 874 weeks ago
Is that a real question or argument? If we follow that logic, then I should not be responsible for any programs institued by any politican I didn't vote for. So any bill not voted on or created by Ohio's two senators or the 6th congressional district allows me to claim exemption. And since I didn't vote for one of those senators, I guess I don't have to follow any bill he wrote as well.
But since Bush was able to go to war with the votes and funding of the congress, your argument falls flat. I could even go a step further and blame this whole mess on Clinton for not dealing with Bin Laden in the 90s.
You can come up with a better argument than that.
You're turning it around now, probably because of the wording of the question. Put more bluntly: why is it ok to tax everyone for the defense budget and not for a national health care budget? Why is everyone forced to pay for the service of defense (although they might think they don't need it), and why is it then wrong to tax everyone for the service of health care (although they might think they don't need it).
#722 Re: The Garden » Bush Asks Congress for $700 Billion Bailout » 874 weeks ago
...
Well, at least your not contradicting yourself (too much). You say what you believe and have obviously thought it through for yourself. For that, you have my respect (which you probably don't want or need anyway).
You attack drunk driving laws while at the same time you say the government should only exist to "defend life". Surely you see the duality in that? You didn't respond to my question about the defense budget either? Isn't PaSnow's remark also valid in that regard?
Not trying to corner you or even convince you, I'm genuinely interested in knowing how you rationalize those things.
#723 Re: The Garden » Bush Asks Congress for $700 Billion Bailout » 874 weeks ago
No one has the right to health care. A right is something man is able to do without impediment from others in nature. I have the right to free-speech because I can say what I want without assistance from others. I have the right to defense because I am able to defend myself against attackers in nature. Rights are not something granted by a government entity nor are they something that requires the willing or unwilling contribution of others.
Obviously, you must realize we disagree on this one, otherwise my previous post would be pretty moot. You're point of view seems to be the complete opposite of that of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Specifically with regards to medicare, article 25 of the declaration reads as follows:
Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
Article 26 is in the same vain, but with regards to education. Eleanor Roosevelt has been quoted as saying this is the modern day Magna Carta, I would agree.
From someone who claims to have created Capitalism and understands it well, you sure don't understand the concept of the free-market. I'd assume since you understand Capitalism (meaning you read the Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith) you would also be familiar with John Locke who also is an inspiration to the US founding fathers. As Locke said, we have the right to life, liberty and property.
Well, to put it into context, the modern principle of a stock exchange was invented in the harbours of Bruges & Antwerp in the early 13th century. It's the first documented consolidation of a set of rules for this type of entrepreneurship. Trying to make my reply as concise as possible, I generalized the claim to "inventing capitalism". My motives were solely to indicate that the "old world" knows a thing or two about laissez-faire liberalism and that my input doesn't need to be discarded purely on the merits of me being a European.
Forcing a segment of the population (Doctors) to perform a service at a pre-determined amount for all that come by is not liberty. You may have the right to live, but you don't have the right to services provided by others.
Ideology aside, doctors are amongst the most prosperous of our society, even here in Belgium. They are paid for everything they do. I have Little insight into how the American system is currently organized in detail, but we do have to pay our doctors. However, if the treatment is proven to be necessary, we get reimbursed for 95% of the cost by the government. Obviously perks like a single room, voluntary plastic surgery, diets for other than medicals reasons, etc... are not paid back. This is not Soviet Russia, where doctors are paid the same as gardeners or garbage men. We do give our people incentive to get an education.
Since 10% of the population utilized 70% of all medical resources in this nation, I fail to see how providing "free" care for all is advantageous to society. Especially considering that the segment that utilizes most of the resources often contributes little to nothing in terms of the economy and same programs they utilize. I would not be opposed to the government creating an entirely optional program ran not for profit that people could join for their health insurance needs. So long as this program is entirely funded by those who enjoy its benefits and not at the expense of others. This of course would never happen as demonstrated by the tragedy of the commons. For those not aware or familiar with this tale, it symbolizes the problems of a collective effort when a segment of the organization is able to use more resources than they contribute thus limiting the amount of availability to others.
We seem to agree on the fact that pooling resources is advantageous for all involved, but disagree on the fact that this works best if it's mandatory. Disease can strike anyone. If there is no safety net, disease can and will lead to poverty. Poor people leave a significant footprint on the economy; not only because they adversely impact welfare statistics and thus have a negative impact on the investment climate, but also because they (statistically) are more likely to commit crimes. Therefore, it is in your best interest to shield as many people as possible from poverty. Not at all cost, but by forcing them to contribute to the health care system they might need later on.
Compare it to smoking in public places: you might not need assistance to do it, but it will impact other people. Therefore the law makes sure you don't. It works for the mandatory stuff as well. Society can't afford too many poor people, so the least you can do is shield those who might involuntarily fall into it.
Socialism and fascism are one in the same regardless of how some would try to imagine or convince us of otherwise. Both fascism and socialism place the needs and desires of the populace at the will of the government or collective and remove individual identify and ownership. After all, the world's most famous Fascist, the Nazi party, identified themselves as a socialist party.
Sure, but Al Qaeda calls itself the "Freedom Fighters of the Oppressed", don't let that tarnish the term "freedom".
If America does instate a socialist medical program, I hope they go all out and resemble something similar to 1984. Obese and unhealthy people need to be required by law to stay within certain weight ratios and exercise regularly. After all, if I'm paying for your care than I should have a say in how you live your life. If the government is responsible for your health care, than that responsibility doesn't stop at the doctor's office. All activity deemed unhealthy needs to be outlawed as to not burden the system. Such policies are already going into affect by banning smoking and trans fat in foods. I say take it a step further and immediately abort all fetuses found to have geneitic defects or problems that would require extra medical care. If society is responsible for the health of the nation, than society should put in laws that ensure that health and ability of equal care to everyone.
So why exactly is heroin illegal then? "Honestly, I just do it in my room, I never bother anyone with it." It's not because the line is thin and vague that we should not put in a best effort to draw it. The line might change from time to time, but it needs to exist. Don't be an extremist in your views, it's not just black or white. The balance is not easy, and it will tip over once in a while but as long as you have freedom of speech and a democratic voting system, you will be safe. It's the doublethink that you need to be afraid of, not big brother as such.
Hopefully my above comments outrage people who read them. Hopefully they feel such a system would be a violation of their personal rights and ability to choose what is best for them. Because I feel the same outrage when someone says I should be responsible for their care because they have made decsions that hinder them from gaining their own care.
Need does not necessiate access to service. This is best demonstrated by the Ayn Rand dialogue below:
It's an interesting point of view, but it ignores the fact that a lot of people are indeed not fit to make these decisions for themselves and that their decision will negatively impact your standard of life.
Health care is currently available to almost all American citizens who want it. The majority of the uninsured are the youth of America who don't feel they need such coverage because they see no reel risk of serious illness or disease. Your typical 25 year old doesn't need to worry about cancer or a heart transplant, so why should they pay for a service they don't need?
Freedom means the ability to make choices on your own without permission from others. Mandating a government plan to force tax payers to pay for the needs of others isn't freedom - it's socialism. I should only have to pay for services that I use; I'm not responsible for the lives of others.
Care to tell me how you think that relates to the defense budget and the input of American citizens who oppose some of the missions embarked upon by the American army? Can they opt out of a part of their taxes 'cause they don't want to pay for a service they don't want? Your government makes these decisions for you, because a society will never be unanimous about these things - same should go for health care.
#724 Re: The Garden » Bush Asks Congress for $700 Billion Bailout » 874 weeks ago
You guys are friggin' scary.
I'm about as capitalist as you can get, but calling national health care a fascist idea is just insanely ridiculous. I also see the terms fascist and socialist being used as if they were one and the same... This sort of indoctrination is just way more extreme than I ever could've imagined.
The impact of national health care upon the economic system is negligible, especially compared to the huge benefits it gives you to your society. Lowering the discrepancy between those who benefit from and those who don't need it only increases welfare. It's not like regular social security where people can abuse the system, you don't choose to be sick. It will not skew your economy towards the lower end, it just removes health as a factor in it.
How the hell can national health care take away freedom? You guys are so far off, it's not even funny anymore.
Trust me: we invented capitalism, we know a thing or two about it. We also have the best health care system in the world and we are one of the biggest proponents of personal freedom in Europe. They are not mutually exclusive.
#725 Re: Guns N' Roses » IGN reviews "Shackler's Revenge" » 875 weeks ago
you obviously didn't look very hard or just disregarded this thread with two positive reviews-one from the same company as the negative one!
http://www.gnrevolution.com/viewtopic.php?id=4445&p=1
Yeah, I read the IGN Xbox team's review as well. Sure it's positive, but I wouldn't call it a professional music review... .
By: Peter Venkman
What's the source for that one? (And where can I find Ray Stantz's, Egon Spengler's and Winston Zeddemore's reviews?)
#726 Re: Guns N' Roses » IGN reviews "Shackler's Revenge" » 875 weeks ago
So you're just gonna disregard all the positive reviews the song has gotten? That doesn't seem fair. This is the first negative review I have read. Is this reviewer the end all be all of all reviewers? Whatever he says is gospel? After all, as shitty as he thinks the song is (even though he said it was catchy after a few listens), he did say it would be commercially successful. I think he's right there, if the band ever releases it that is.
I think you're misunderstanding me. I don't care too much about reviews one way or the other, but I hope I don't see too many negative reviews 'cause I'm sure Axl will care. My fear is that he will once again be put off by the negative press this inevitably will get and pull the plug on the album once and for all.
Aside from that, I haven't seen that many professional reviews at all (not been looking either). This is the first one I see, and it's negative. I would also love to see some positive professional reviews.
#727 Re: Dust N' Bones & Cyborg Slunks » Slash on His Solo LP, Guitar Hero and Guns N Roses » 875 weeks ago
At the pace the Velvet singer search is going I'll probably get this done before then.
Scary tidbit of information right there...
#728 Re: Dust N' Bones & Cyborg Slunks » Five questions for Duff McKagan » 875 weeks ago
I love his comment on singers.
He's basically saying "Axl is fucking amazing! Oh and Scott, he's alright if you can't get Axl."
Yeah, I got that vibe as well...
#729 Re: Guns N' Roses » IGN reviews "Shackler's Revenge" » 875 weeks ago
By the way: I almost didn't read this thread 'cause I though it was a re-post of the review (or hands-on) the xbox team had done a while ago. Maybe the title needs clarification?
#730 Re: Guns N' Roses » IGN reviews "Shackler's Revenge" » 875 weeks ago
Ugh, I really hope Axl has no more control over when the album comes out. If not, a couple more of these reviews and we can forget about the album altogether...
That being said, the last paragraph really hits the nail on the head.