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#761 Re: Guns N' Roses » Chinese Democracy now $1.99 » 735 weeks ago
Yeah, the more posts I read Ali seems to be interested in 'discussing' these things.
For a bit there it came across as "agenda-like".
My mistake
And I agree, I.R.S. is another 'Illusion-esque' song on the album. I.R.S. sounds at times like it could be a B-side on UYI I, specifically.
Fair enough. 
And, to me, "I.R.S." is the CD equivalent of "Don't Damn Me". The closest thing to old school GN'R rocker, IMO, and that's why I think a lot of people dig it.
Ali
#762 Re: Guns N' Roses » Chinese Democracy now $1.99 » 735 weeks ago
buzzsaw wrote:misterID wrote:Bullshit. You know arguments are instigated here and Ali is just an excuse to do it.
No, Ali attempted to instigate one. And there are several examples of Ali intentionally doing exactly what you accuse him of, so don't play the "ali is an innocent victim" card. It ain't happening.
This
misterID wrote:James Lofton wrote:I do agree that The Blues has that UYI feel as well, but TWAT is epic and like I've said before, that killer Bucket outro feels like a tribute to those old epics and wouldn't be surprised if those songs inspired that specific solo.
Wouldn't you say that Bucket outro was more Bucket than anything else? The original demo, without Bucket, was totally nuGNR, I think we can agree on that, but when Bucket laid down his solo it was something that was all Bucket, not a tribute to old GNR, so to speak. I do understand the epicness though. But wasn't that always more an Axl thing?
There's seriously nothing about the song that reminds me of old GNR.
And Axlin:
I just went back through this thread and I can't find anything Ali said that was so awful. If you have horrible things he's said, please post them, because I'd like to see them and I'll admit I'm wrong. But Ali did a good job of explaining himself here and his posts were basically misread, or intentionally misquoted.
It's not so much awful, as it is walking in and dragging on and on and fucking on trying to bait Buzz into an argument, that Ali lost threads and threads ago.
I actually think Ali's posts are very intelligent, thought out, and constructed. Problem is - that's the problem. They come across as rehearsed HTGTH recycled dribble.
Buzz has a free thought, and suddenly we're gonna bait him into the 'hater card'.
I fucking HATE THAT SHIT on HTGTH, and I actually haven't said really anything about it until now, but that one post above irked the hell out of me, and obviously Buzz picked up on it too.
I haven't instigated anything here, I was simply picking up the ball and playing a little defense for Buzz's sake when it was obvious Ali was gonna go for another "let's dance" moment.
They're perfectly able to do that, but i'm gonna start getting involved a bit more if I keep seeing it. Just call it out on the fucking lameness of it.
As for the actual discussion at hand, dude I don't know what you're missing. TWAT & TIL sound totally in the same vein as Breakdown, Loco, Rain, Estranged, etc.
SOD to me sounds like a cousin to So Fine
I just disagreed with Buzz and challenged his opinion. I enjoy a spirited discussion and debate. You may call that an "argument", that's your prerogative.
Simply put, if you don't want your statements and opinions challenged, debated, discussed and possibly disagreed with, then what is the sense in putting them on a "discussion board"?
Ali
#763 Re: Guns N' Roses » Chinese Democracy now $1.99 » 735 weeks ago
misterID wrote:Your question:
buzzsaw wrote:Did people buy and/or listen to the album when it first came out? Yes or no?
His answer:
Ali wrote:One last time. Since you aren't connecting the dots for whatever reason, here it is as plainly as I can state it - Yes, people bought the record and listened to it.
Certainly, there were people that legitimately didn't like the record on its own merits. But, to say that there weren't those who were prejudiced towards the record is incredibly myopic.
Seems like he answered your question to me.
But unlike Clark Grizzwald, I can easily get out of that loop and not go around in circles. Have a nice day, Buzz.
Look kids, Big Ben, Parliament.
It's a yes or no question. Someone didn't like the answer, so they made up excuses. They were called on the excuses. I asked repeatedly for a simple yes or no answer. Never got it. You know why? Because he loses all leverage the second he gives it.
What else you got? I'm still waiting for the evil actions I took in the discussion mr bias.
It was a yes or no question and as was pointed out, I did answer it. I simply disagree that it is as simple as a yes or no question. I think there are many factors as to why the album didn't sell as much as it could have, and I don't think it's simply because the songs weren't good.
Ali
#764 Re: Guns N' Roses » Chinese Democracy now $1.99 » 735 weeks ago
And also Ali, let's not start that "who defines GN'R sound" argument, because it's beyond stupid.
We all know what Guns founded themselves on blues-rooted hard rock. Done. The world looks at it that way, it's their legacy, and it's a big reason that almost everyone outside of a fuckin' fan forum's reaction to CD was "what the hell is this shit?". TWAT & TIL are probably the closest out of the whole album to sounding like real GN'R songs.
metallex78 wrote:Olorin wrote:Robins trying to capture pain and heartbreak, and he nails it perfectly, I think its stunning.
When I first heard Robin's solo, it was like nails on a chalkboard t my ears, but it slowly began to grow on me, and now I love it. And you're right, it fits the mood of the song completely.
No doubt Slash would have come up with something great too, but Robin did a very admirable job there too.
I don't HATE Robin's solo either. I don't really hate anything he did, other than butchering the old songs live. His work in SOD & Better & TWAT is quite decent.
I just think GN'R could've done alot better. ALOT BETTER, in terms of recruitment. Let's be honest, the only reason Robin got the call was because Axl had such a hard on for NIN.
I don't care what Axl thinks, a "Pride & Glory"-era Zakk Wylde would've been alot better fit for GN'R in the late 90's.
Is it? To some people, the AFD sound is the definitive GN'R sound. To me, there is no one definitive GN'R sound, just like there is no one definitive U2 sound. Axl and GN'R have evolved other the years and changed their sound, like U2, Queensryche and other bands.
IMO, there is no one definitive GN'R sound when taking a step back and looking at the broad spectrum of their entire catalog.
Hell, there's already one person who thinks TWAT doesn't necessarily sound like old school GN'R, and while I think it has some UYI qualities to it, it doesn't sound like old GN'R. I actually think "I.R.S." is the closest sounding song to old school GN'R.
Ali
#765 Re: Guns N' Roses » Chinese Democracy now $1.99 » 735 weeks ago
James Lofton wrote:Ali wrote:It sounds "like GN'R"? In reference to what exactly? What is the baseline "sound" there you're referring to and who exactly determines that is the definitive or baseline sound for GN'R?
Ali
It's as close to a UYI epic as you can get without actually having the UYI lineup.
She knows what it means. It was a weak attempt to bait me into a discussion hoping she'd win one eventually.
Last time - HE. Have at least the common courtesy and maturity to use the proper pronoun when referring to someone.
It was an honest question. You don't want to answer it, fine.
Ali
#766 Re: Guns N' Roses » Chinese Democracy now $1.99 » 735 weeks ago
TWAT is great because for the most part it sounds like GnR. No need to complicate it with analysis.
It sounds "like GN'R"? In reference to what exactly? What is the baseline "sound" there you're referring to and who exactly determines that is the definitive or baseline sound for GN'R?
Ali
#767 Re: Guns N' Roses » Chinese Democracy now $1.99 » 735 weeks ago
Mikkamakka wrote:People still buy Greatest Hits. People bought a shitload of the new Metallica and AC/DC album. BB's only mistake was that they thought the public would accept CD as a true GN'R album.
I do think that's a big factor for sure.
I think everyone in classic GNR was important, but there's no doubting that the most iconic parts of the magic for regular people were Axl and Slash. So pretty much people want that.
That was exactly the point I was trying to bring up earlier, that a GN'R album without Slash was destined for preconceived notions and prejudice by some fraction of the public. Guess I'm not the only one who thought that 
Ali
#768 Re: Guns N' Roses » Chinese Democracy now $1.99 » 735 weeks ago
Ali wrote:misterID wrote:I think CD is the best album GNR has made next to AFD. I'd rather have the 2002 band over a original band reunion. Slash couldn't carry Bucket's guitar strap.
Since we're all stating opinions for zillionth time, and no one is going to change it, just some childish "I'm right, you're wrong", thought I'd add mine.
Agreed. I'd take CD over the UYIs any day of the week. Now, it would be interesting if the UYIs were condensed into a single record.
Ali
You know, the UYI as a single record argument is something that never gets old for me. One album with the best songs would have been better than AFD with another co-producer brought in to tighten it up. Getting the best songs to actually fit on a single album would be tough, though, without some serious editting.
Agreed. One single UYI album would surpass AFD in my opinion. As it stands now, I'll take CD over either UYI album because I think CD is far more even than either UYI album.
Ali
#769 Re: Guns N' Roses » Chinese Democracy now $1.99 » 735 weeks ago
Ali wrote:buzzsaw wrote:Ok, you don't have to just answer the question. Your refusal to answer the question is all the confirmation I need.
You're right - eerybody hated the album because of their bias. Only those that love it are objective. Good day, move along.
Well, I can see this whole dialog was unequivocally an exercise in futility as A) yes, I did answer your question. Very clearly in fact. B) I very clearly did not say "everybody" hated the album because of some bias. If you had actually read what I said, you would see I wrote, "Certainly, there were people that legitimately didn't like the record on its own merits. But, to say that there weren't those who were prejudiced towards the record is incredibly myopic."
I would ask you if you can see the difference between what you claim I wrote/said and what I actually wrote, but that would obviously be futile - you either can't or choose not to read and/or correctly interpret/comprehend what I write on this topic.
Ali
I would think you would be able to do the same with what I wrote. Sucks when the tables are turned on you, doesn't it?
Uh, not exactly. But, nice try.
Ali
#770 Re: Guns N' Roses » Chinese Democracy now $1.99 » 735 weeks ago
I think CD is the best album GNR has made next to AFD. I'd rather have the 2002 band over a original band reunion. Slash couldn't carry Bucket's guitar strap.
Since we're all stating opinions for zillionth time, and no one is going to change it, just some childish "I'm right, you're wrong", thought I'd add mine.
Agreed. I'd take CD over the UYIs any day of the week. Now, it would be interesting if the UYIs were condensed into a single record.
Ali
