You are not logged in. Please register or login.
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
#771 Re: Guns N' Roses » Chinese Democracy now $1.99 » 735 weeks ago
Ok, you don't have to just answer the question. Your refusal to answer the question is all the confirmation I need.
You're right - eerybody hated the album because of their bias. Only those that love it are objective. Good day, move along.
Well, I can see this whole dialog was unequivocally an exercise in futility as A) yes, I did answer your question. Very clearly in fact. B) I very clearly did not say "everybody" hated the album because of some bias. If you had actually read what I said, you would see I wrote, "Certainly, there were people that legitimately didn't like the record on its own merits. But, to say that there weren't those who were prejudiced towards the record is incredibly myopic." 
I would ask you if you can see the difference between what you claim I wrote/said and what I actually wrote, but that would obviously be futile - you either can't or choose not to read and/or correctly interpret/comprehend what I write on this topic.
Ali
#772 Re: Guns N' Roses » Chinese Democracy now $1.99 » 735 weeks ago
Ali wrote:buzzsaw wrote:You said you addressed it. So did I miss where you admitted people would be talking about how amazing it is? I must have, because all I see is you making excuses as to why the album didn't sell intead of answering a simple question. We're not talking about marketing or whether the songs sound the same as the band used to sound, we're talking about people buying and/or listening to the album. Keep up here...
Did people buy and/or listen to the album when it first came out? Yes or no?
Again, asked and answered already with regards to word of mouth.
Last thing I'll say on the topic is actually a quote from CR magazine on best songs of 2000-2009:
.........................
3. Better – Guns N’ Roses
From the 2008 album Chinese Democracy. After waiting seemingly centuries for the album to be released, wasn’t it inevitable that everyone would be initially disappointed with the results? Then you start to go back and discover this gem such as this, and slowly it dawns on you that Axl’s actually made a classic – but we’ve been too prejudiced to give it a chance.
.........................
If you can't keep up, or simply choose to ignore what I wrote, I see no point in continuing this dialog.Ali
So you refuse to answer? I expected that. It's your first step towards the cliff. Everybody's called you on the other one too. It's over, you're wrong. Good day.
Ha! Nice childish response. I guess this is some type of competition that someone has to win and someone has to lose
One last time. Since you aren't connecting the dots for whatever reason, here it is as plainly as I can state it - Yes, people bought the record and listened to it. But, as CR magazine openly admitted, many people were prejudiced based on the delays, change in sound and change in membership. Hence, they dismissed it outright from the get go. Therefore, a good portion of the word of mouth that a good record would get was negated to a certain extent.
Certainly, there were people that legitimately didn't like the record on its own merits. But, to say that there weren't those who were prejudiced towards the record is incredibly myopic. And that bias reflected in their assessment of the record, which in turn has an effect on word of mouth.
But, if you're intent on believing that your opinion is right and mine is wrong, I guess maybe it doesn't matter what anyone might say. Enjoy your myopia.
Ali
#773 Re: Guns N' Roses » The Tommy Stinson Thread » 735 weeks ago
Ali's a swinger dude. I'll cut a lot of people slack these days, but she's clinging and won't let go.
HE. And as MisterID said, again, "You decide to believe one thing, doesn't mean everyone has to agree with that."
I prefer to not put words in Tommy's mouth, that's all. Especially when he said in 2009, "it turned out great". He may think it was unnecessary to continue to re-record and add additional tracks to the songs, but still like the songs and the record itself. Those two concepts are not mutually exclusive, as you seem to think.
Ali
#774 Re: Guns N' Roses » Chinese Democracy now $1.99 » 736 weeks ago
Ali wrote:buzzsaw wrote:For Christ's sake, read what I said. I know what I said, you apparently do not.
For the third time:
Sold big first 2 weeks. Check.
Streamed for free on myspace. Check.
As a result of those 2 points, it is safe to assume people heard the album. Check.
So if the album was amazing, all of those people that heard it would have been talking about how amazing it was, right? Right?
If you don't follow it to this point, there's no point in continuing.
Already responded in the previous post, with respect to continual marketing efforts and the dismissing of the album simply based off different sound and/or band membership (see Megadeth-Risk, Metallica-Load/Reload, U2-Pop, Zooropa, No Line On The Horizon, etc.).
If you're going to discount all that, then you're right, there is no point in continuing. Your view is IMO very myopic and not considering all the factors at play.
Ali
You said you addressed it. So did I miss where you admitted people would be talking about how amazing it is? I must have, because all I see is you making excuses as to why the album didn't sell intead of answering a simple question. We're not talking about marketing or whether the songs sound the same as the band used to sound, we're talking about people buying and/or listening to the album. Keep up here...
Did people buy and/or listen to the album when it first came out? Yes or no?
Again, asked and answered already with regards to word of mouth.
Last thing I'll say on the topic is actually a quote from CR magazine on best songs of 2000-2009:
.........................
3. Better – Guns N’ Roses
From the 2008 album Chinese Democracy. After waiting seemingly centuries for the album to be released, wasn’t it inevitable that everyone would be initially disappointed with the results? Then you start to go back and discover this gem such as this, and slowly it dawns on you that Axl’s actually made a classic – but we’ve been too prejudiced to give it a chance.
.........................
If you can't keep up, or simply choose to ignore what I wrote, I see no point in continuing this dialog.
Ali
#775 Re: Guns N' Roses » The Tommy Stinson Thread » 736 weeks ago
Correct. He'd get fired for saying mess. So he said it without saying it. dense and mish-mash = mess.
Again, your interpretation. I don't agree at all. He said in 2009 it turned out "great" and "right". The record was out by then, so unless he explicitly says otherwise, there is no reason to think he's changed his tune. Unless, you're a mindreader, your claim is just your interpretation.
As Mister ID said, "You guys are now telling people to read between the lines of what he's saying, instead of what he's saying."
I'll leave it at that since that sums it up perfectly from my perspective.
Ali
#776 Re: Guns N' Roses » The Tommy Stinson Thread » 736 weeks ago
Yeah, Tommy really isn't saying anything new or anything that we haven't said... He's not saying the album is awful.
Exactly, and very simply, my point. It may be a subtle point to some, but to me there are very different connotations for the words "dense" or "mish-mash" or "layered instrumentation" and the word "mess".
Ali
#777 Re: Guns N' Roses » The Tommy Stinson Thread » 736 weeks ago
I remember that interview but think there was another one where he also ripped into Baker and others. Madagas or sic, gotta link to that?
Yes, there was the Bass Player April 2009 interview. He didn't say anything about the songs being a mess, the reporter who did the interview/wrote the article said, "Listening to Chinese Democracy, you can almost hear the last ten years in pastiche, as moments of singer / songwriter introspection co-mingle with down-tempo electronica and aggressive industrial grooves. Tune into Tommy and you'll hear a similar patchwork of influences: the melodicism of Paul McCartney, the confident swagger of ex-Guns bassist Duff McKagan, and the total tonal awareness of too many studio greats to name. "
http://www.gnrdaily.com/news_detail.asp?id=2066
Ali
#778 Re: Guns N' Roses » The Tommy Stinson Thread » 736 weeks ago
So you think that's what he's saying in the interview posted today? In that case, I give up.
Did I say that?
No, I was answering James Lofton's response.
In 2009, clearly, he said it turned out great.
Ali
#779 Re: Guns N' Roses » The Tommy Stinson Thread » 736 weeks ago
#780 Re: Guns N' Roses » The Tommy Stinson Thread » 736 weeks ago
Ali, are you a politician? He admits the finished album is a fucking mess and pretty sure he stated the same thing in that one interview in 2009 where he went into detail regarding the recording of CD.
Which interview are you referring to? The Gasoline magazine one?
This is what he said in that:
What took so fucking long?
"You know what? ... I don't know," Stinson divulges. "I really don't know if there was one thing. I think it was a multitude of things. That's my straight-up answer without getting into specifics, because I think if I get specific, it can be taken as sort of negative, and I don't want to go there." Inarguably, some discretion is required when talking about W. Axl Rose, a man infamous for his vicious disputes with his bandmates. But after some prying, Stinson loosens up. "I think the main thing is, we just didn't have a lot of help doing it. Geffen merged with Interscope; that definitely changed what was going down with the record. For whatever reason, because of the merger, it seems to me that that was the point when things slowed way, way, way down."
Now that Chinese Democracy has been released, Stinson looks at the album as two sides of a coin. "It's a little bittersweet. It took so long [to record the album], which is a drag, but the sweet thing is that it's actually out now, and people can actually check it out and judge for themselves on its worth or not." He then continues, "But ultimately for us, [the experience] was totally worth it. It turned out great, and I think it turned out right. I don't know if it would have turned out right a year ago or four years ago.
It doesn't seem to me that because he may think the songs are overly dense, he doesn't like the record is a bad one, or necessarily is a mess - which again has a very negative connotation.
Ali
