I completely understand what you're saying and agree. The frustration comes from being 100% sure through that period and before that when the album was announced that it would be Game On: the last massive, multi-million dollar, world-wide traditional release of an album, perhaps ever, before physical sales, singles, b-sides etc become a thing of the past.

I thought that when it hit we'd have Axl's 10,000 word explanation that was going to be printed in RS in 2000, plus an extra 10,000 words. I thought the band would be unleashed upon every magazine and tv show in the world yada yada, blah blah.

Going from that expectation to the reality we have sucks.

I'm feeling really bummed out but madagas and Big Bri are right. If we got to January and nothing had changed then the pessimism would be valid. For now I'll stick with frustration.

LOL. Point taken Olorin. I guess I've just fooled myself that when it was finally ready to come out, everything would just go right, and in fairness, the 2006 and 2007 tours were fucking superb and relatively problem-less once they got going.

What's weird is that there seem to be two completely apposite versions of how GN'R world works according to different people. Both insiders like Zutaut and lucky, cheeky buggers like MSL attest to the insanty, chaos, misinformation, paranoia and all the rest of it that explains a lot. Others attest to how brilliantly organised the whole thing is, how awesome Axl is in every way and that it's just loads of shit that keeps getting in the way of everything.

Wow. Amazing thread. Thanks to those who provided new info. May I ask, is the quote from the buckethead.tdk site actually by Bucket? It sounds like him talking about the situation in third person.

I'm absolutely gutted to hear that it's almost certain he wont return. It doesn't surprise me that he didn't click with Tommy. Tommy, who I spent time with on the Jesse malin tour 04, is personality-wise so opposite to Bucket and I can easily see him being a dick to him, juust taking the piss and being nasty about his eccentricities. I haven't heard that suggested anywhere, I'm just saying it wouldn't surprise me if some of the band made Bucket feel unwelcome in ways. All those private photos of the 2006 tour of Robin, Richard, Tommy etc with all their kids, hanging out, showed how much the band had gelled and how close they'd become. I imagine Bucket never ever got 'in' with them.

I am really hopeful, because of Axl leaving Bucket all over the album, because of the Dr Pepper comment, because of Bucket being treated like a proper member in the booklet, and because Bucket is no doubt all over many future tracks for the next albums, that Axl WANTS Bucket to come back, whether just to record or to tour as well.

I believe that Richard is going nowhere. He is probably the only person bar Dizzy who isn't really fazed by the delays etc. He's a session player and he's never complained like most everyone else has in some way.

The band NEEDS three live players, the new songs will not work with two and there is no way Axl will go out with twoand I think to suggest otherwise at this point is daft.

So assuming Richard is in for life, I would love to see Bucket return in a perfect world. It would simply be a case of whether he would accept Ron or not.

As for Finck, of course anyone should take Bucket over him any day but I think the slagging he's getting here sucks. He fucks up a lot like but for Chrissakes, his Blues solo is magnificent, Better is his song and it fucking rocks, especially the outro which is up there with the best moment on the record; his Twat work is also fucking awesome, right through the verses and joining with Axl into Bucket's solo. Give him at least some friggin credit for the songs you've loved for years now.

I'd also say that from front row at the Hammerstein shows and many Euro 06 shows that Robin and Axl had amazing chemistry on stage and there was more warmth between them than any of the others and Axl. I saw Robin put his head on Axl's chest during a solo as Axl stood by him. And he absolutely loved those shows, crowdsurfed, told Axl 'Thhis is what I live for' and I can tell you that the fans down in the front really appreciated the energy he brought to those first four shows. He had Bucket's'Slash's shoes to fill in terms of presence and being the focal lead and had to compensate for Ron basically flying by the seat of his pants.

I'll say this much: if this new band goes out without either Robin or Bucket then something will be seriously fucking wrong. Because you cannot put out this album as it is and then go play it without the two fucking main guitarists. If that happens I'll feel as cheated as someone who went along to the HoB expecting to see Slash.