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Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
Varys is by no means a "good guy", he cuts out the tongues of his little birds. But outside of Ned, Jon and Robb, I don't know if there are any good characters in the books/show. And the 3 I just mentioned could certainly be called "bad guys" from other characters point of view. That's what is so compelling about Martin's story, and why I get so irritated when the show fucks it up for reasons I can't understand. Like why has the show refused to follow Jamie's character arc?
I don't think the Targaryen's are the good people, so I fully expect Dany to become a villain of sorts. The First Men and Starks defeated the Others long before Valyria existed.
Wow, you need to post here more.
I'm going to start reading the series after this season. But yeah, I think Dany will be a villain.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
Randall Flagg wrote:Varys is by no means a "good guy", he cuts out the tongues of his little birds. But outside of Ned, Jon and Robb, I don't know if there are any good characters in the books/show. And the 3 I just mentioned could certainly be called "bad guys" from other characters point of view. That's what is so compelling about Martin's story, and why I get so irritated when the show fucks it up for reasons I can't understand. Like why has the show refused to follow Jamie's character arc?
I don't think the Targaryen's are the good people, so I fully expect Dany to become a villain of sorts. The First Men and Starks defeated the Others long before Valyria existed.
Wow, you need to post here more.
I'm going to start reading the series after this season. But yeah, I think Dany will be a villain.
Unless Dany turns out to be the daughter of Rhaegar and Lyanna, Jon is the center of the story. He's the only one who has the blood of ice and fire running through his veins. Everyone feels bad for Dany because her family was murdered and exiled from Westeros, but her ancestors were the villains. The Starks have ruled Winterfell and the North for over 8k years, and while the Arryns and Lannisters have Andal blood, they trace their ancestry to just as far back as the Starks. 300 years ago, Aegon Targaryen shows up with his 2 sister wives and 3 dragons and fucks up the continent. The Targaryen's were a lower house in Valyria and no one paid them any attention when they fled to Westeros and settled on Dragonstone.
It was through the Targaryen's that houses like the Tyrell's, Baratheon's and Tully's came to be the lords of their respective areas. So to view the Targaryen dynasty as some kind of joyous time, completely misses out on the destruction and harm they caused.
The theory I subscribe too more than others, is that Jamie and Cersei are the bastards of Johanna Lannister (Tywin's wife) and Aerys Targaryen. Cersei's obsession with wild fire, desire to burn down King's Landing and continual fall into madness are clear signs of this to me. She is the mad king's daughter. Ironically, if this is true, that would give their children a legitimate claim to the Iron Throne rather than pawning them off as Robert's.
I also think Varys is a Blackfyre/Targaryen not because of his support for Aegon/Dany (though that is certainly a good reason) but because we know that in the books and show, King's blood means something. The Red Priest Kinvara recently made mention of Varys being cut and his manhood being tossed into the fire and hearing the voice of a god. If Varys was just a normal bloke, would his blood have had any magical properties? Maekar the Cruel (I probably misspelled that) killed all the masons and carpenters who built the Red Keep, so that only the Targaryen's would know of all the secret passages in King's Landing. And who knows more about these passages than anyone?
- Smoking Guns
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- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
I've heard the Tyrion theory about being the Mad Kings kid, but I didn't even consider the twincest duo.
I spend way too much time reading this shit. Johanna Lannister was top hand maiden to Queen Rhaella (The Mad King's wife). It is no secret that Aerys lusted after Johanna, commenting to Tywin as much. Queen Rhaella dismissed Johanna saying "She was tired of Aerys using her hand maidens like whores" or something to that effect. Johanna leaves King's Landing and heads to Casterly Rock, with Tywin shortly behind her. Several months later, Cersei and Jamie are born. Guess who shows up a short time later to see "Tywin's" children? You guessed it, the Mad King.
That's the whole irony in this. Tywin loved Jamie and Cersei, but loathed Tyrion. Tyrion was his only true son, and as watchers and characters alike acknowledge, Tyrion is the most like Tywin. So while Tyrion killed his father, so did Jamie when he killed the Mad King. Others have done the math, and the Mad King was never near The Rock anytime preceding Tyrion's birth, and Johanna never returned to King's Landing.
If you guys are fans of the show/books and really want to go down the rabbit hole, I can't recommend enough the YouTuber Preston Jacobs. I don't agree with everything he says (He thinks Dany is the child of Rhaegar and Lyanna, not Jon), but god damn if they aren't very well researched and entertaining videos.
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
Preston is a little wacky, but I do find his review videos amusing even if the new format is a bit too much.
There's zero evidence whatsoever for Tyrion being a Targ in the story. It also cheapens his story arc/relationship with Tywinn. People are still clinging to the idea that 3 people are going ride dragons side by side into battle,
I can see why people cling to the Cerseri/Jamie theory, but that too just means too many characters with secret parents. I don't feel that twist is really necessary to the story.
Personally (and this is just my opinion) I'd like to see the story end with another battle of the trident. Danny marching north against Jon (after The Others arc. has been resolved) with the POV characters that are still standing split up between both sides. I just don't think a scenario were everyone teams up at the end to stand against The Others is really a satisfying ending or Danny dying in childbirth.
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
That Dany moment was so soapy. The way she just popped into the scene like she just came from the makeup chair and entered the set, which is probably exactly what really happened too.
Middling episode with some good scenes. We have definitely been in filler territory for the last 2 or 3 shows. Those dudes getting hanged reminded me a little of the similar scene from Lonesome Dove, which was cool. Clegane begging to cut off at least a hand was funny. I'd like to see more of those fellas in that cult.
- IRISH OS1R1S
- Rep: 59
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
That Dany moment was so soapy. The way she just popped into the scene like she just came from the makeup chair and entered the set, which is probably exactly what really happened too.
Middling episode with some good scenes. We have definitely been in filler territory for the last 2 or 3 shows. Those dudes getting hanged reminded me a little of the similar scene from Lonesome Dove, which was cool. Clegane begging to cut off at least a hand was funny. I'd like to see more of those fellas in that cult.
Kinda off topic, but Lonesome Dove was the best damn western ever made and possibly the best mini-series ever imo. I'm gonna have to watch it again now.
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
Fun fact... Danny was one of the few main actors/actresses that supposedly read the books. She supposedly had notes written through the books for future reference. Bet she wondered why she was naked half the time she was on screen in the earlier seasons. Bad idea, the writers don't like the cast reading the books.
Also it's just silly that they never had her dye her eye brows and always had her look like she came from a Salon in scenes where they in the desert. The hair straighteners/gel is silly.
The whole being immune to fire in the show and never exploring that she's a terrible ruler. Keep trying to make her look like a messiah. They backwashed Stannis, but they white washed Danny/Tyrion so the casual audience wouldn't be confused...
