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Re: North American Tour Stats for new Gnr
i think that's very true Intercourse, regarding Axl.
at the very least it highlights the fractured relationship of the 'band'. they weren't good friends but rather using each other to... i dunno, 'get out' or, get paid.
obv now i know, but they weren't really a garage band, or friends who started a band. they came together cause nobody else could work w/them & they clung on as they'd little left to hope for. & lo & behold they made enough money that they thought they didn't need the other guys anymore.
- Intercourse
- Rep: 212
Re: North American Tour Stats for new Gnr
I was in a band with a record deal a long time ago and our guitar player went to ego outer space and threatened to leave all the time if he didn't get his way. The thing was he was a brilliant song writer so we couldn't afford to loose him.
He taunted us and held this over us for so long I drank myself to oblivion to just find the patience to deal with him and not smack the fucker. When it was done and we'd failed, part of me was just so fucking relieved that I didn't have to deal with him anymore.
I often wonder were Slash & Duff so frayed with the walk outs, threats, walks offs, riots etc that the drink initially dulled the anxiety and helped them manage and carry on but then the drink became their new master and they got kicked to the curb by Axl for it.
Re: North American Tour Stats for new Gnr
They were alcoholics and drug addicts even before the band.
If you read Duff's book, you'll know that he had panic attacks since he was a kid and the way he found to control these attcks was drinking heavily, daily.
Slash and Adler were all over drugs and Steven's life goal was to "have an unlimited stash of pot and crack to always feel happy".
It's pretty unfair to put this on Axl.
He has a lot of responsability on what went on with GN'R, but to put someone else's addiction into his account is nowhere near true.
Re: North American Tour Stats for new Gnr
good post otto...just another thread to start the bashing. I actually just started the thread more as documentation of numbers so that when someone makes a crazy comment (both negative or positive) you can keep them in check with FACTS.
Somehow this got turned in to an Axl bash fest. Imagine that....I wish I had worldwide tour numbers to show the other side but those are VERY hard to come by.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: North American Tour Stats for new Gnr
Great original post. I appreciate those facts. Would be nice to see what Mötley, U2, and Slash did as well since they all have many of the same fans.
Re: North American Tour Stats for new Gnr
misterID wrote:Bullshit. Original GN'R was destined to crash and burn no matter what.
Completely disagree with that ID.
Look at what *should* have happened:
Axl - martyred on the alter of rock cobain style or in jail for killing someone in a temper
Steven - dies from long term drug abuse
Duff - drinks himself to death
Slash - accidental OD
but NONE of that has happened has it?
Axl found a way to keep himself within some kind of limits....Slash got clean and kicks ass now...duff is a marital arts god.....
Bottom line is if they'd only found a way to remain friends, and sort out their bullshit - which I fully blame both Axl AND slash for - there is a ton of amazing material they would have put out...and GNR would now be like U2 or the Stones....
Just like them doing everything right and getting off the dope, staying friends, none of that WOULD have or DID happened. End of story.
They were the Sex Pistols with the momentary popularity of Aerosmith in their prime and Queen. There was no longevity for that line up and people are just in denial about that.
And what does it matter? They put out great albums, they did what they wanted for that short period of time. Album sales and concert attendance don't matter anything, and shouldn't matter anything. If it did no one could ever be a fan of a band like Fugazi.
Re: North American Tour Stats for new Gnr
good post otto...just another thread to start the bashing. I actually just started the thread more as documentation of numbers so that when someone makes a crazy comment (both negative or positive) you can keep them in check with FACTS.
Somehow this got turned in to an Axl bash fest. Imagine that....I wish I had worldwide tour numbers to show the other side but those are VERY hard to come by.
I still keep my position, posted a few months back:
No matter what happens (tour, re-releases, live albums, different setlists, different approaches such as this residency, new site, etc) people will bash Axl until there's new music released.
Then, we'll discuss for a few months the album and the consequent tour. Axl will go into hiding again, reunion rumours will surface and be denied and the Axl bashing will restart untill something new is released.
This is the loop we're in after RNRHOF, unfortunately.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: North American Tour Stats for new Gnr
And what does it matter?
It matters creatively.
Axl's become artistically paralysed - putting out less than a song a year as he obsesses and re-records instrumental parts he never would have been responsible for in the day.
Slash puts out some of the finest guitar riffs still but often does so with musicans in his band or vocalists that are not at his talent level.
At the end of the day it means we get less art and art of a lower quality. That's what it matters.
- Intercourse
- Rep: 212
Re: North American Tour Stats for new Gnr
They were alcoholics and drug addicts even before the band.
If you read Duff's book, you'll know that he had panic attacks since he was a kid and the way he found to control these attcks was drinking heavily, daily.
Slash and Adler were all over drugs and Steven's life goal was to "have an unlimited stash of pot and crack to always feel happy".
It's pretty unfair to put this on Axl.
He has a lot of responsability on what went on with GN'R, but to put someone else's addiction into his account is nowhere near true.
You're right Otto, I just let my thoughts ramble off point. I stand corrected.
Re: North American Tour Stats for new Gnr
They needed to be taught how to balance drugs and alcohol with being bosses of a huge corporation - all at 23. They needed a mentor.
U2 had Paul McGuinness and Zep had Peter Grant, both men were crucial to the continued success of the bands as they transitioned from citizens to icons.
True,
In retrospect, Alan Niven did some pretty hair-raising things for them, like confront David Geffen regarding the UYI's. He got fluent in dealing with their addictions, he tolerated their antics. And it paid off.
No matter how you slice it, Axl's detest for another authority in Guns broke their relationship down. He must've listened to those "you can get along by yourself" -speeches by sycophants one too many times.
Axl didn't break the band. He contributed to a bad situation a lot more than many others, tho. By the time Doug Goldstein was instated, it was pretty much over from an artistic point of view.
