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Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
i told you before, statistics can prove anything.
i do understand you. i have made the effort to understand you.
you don't understand. your presumptions & automatic defensiveness PREVENT YOU from understanding.
i'm not trying to claim anything. where did i claim how morally superior i am? i admitted i enjoy guns ffs! it was axlin, who jokingly (perhaps), took the morally superior tone when he forgave people for misunderstanding his culture.
i've explained solutions.
i've said before guns aren't solely responsible. i'm not calling for americans to ban guns (as mrID claims). re-read my posts then maybe you'll understand.
a workable solution is stricter laws on who can obtain guns. a workable solution encompasses that w/better care & attention to those on the fringes of society & on the fringes of mental health. i'm just now repeating what i've already said.
there are solutions. you just seem to refuse to consider them, basing your beliefs on some absurd notions of 'freedom' or the idea that the american constitution and those who believe in it are exempt from change.
yea, people believe strongly in a flawed document that was written hundreds of years ago by powerful men who were corrupt & liars. explain to me what exactly is it that makes america so different from other people who believe in other old documents exactly?! "freedom"?!
freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.
freedom doesn't even enter into the debate. when kids can get their hands on guns so easily, when the mentally ill can get their hands on guns so easily, there's simply something wrong. you said people were trying to simplify the problem, well there it is. it is simple. there's right & wrong, there's decency & there's craziness, maybe even evil. freedom has no importance in a matter such as this. you fix the problem & move on.
fwiw - i know america isn't the wild west. i know it's entirely possible to go thru your life in america w/o coming across a gun or even getting into the political debate on guns - just like it's possible to live anywhere in the world & not be involved in certain matters of the state or certain dangerous situations. my point here is, again, america is not that different. it's just it's gun laws make a special case in it's society. irish society has it's only special cases & issues (abortion for example), the british you could say about their apparent disdain for the EU. whatever, every country has their own particular political issues, it doesn't mean people cannot relate & understand.
& in actual fact, it's been proven ( 
) that outside voices can help lend experience & knowledge to other societies & help them improve their safety & peace.
you just need to walk away from this discussion because you're not capable of helping come up with a workable solution. on top of that, you're not trying to; you're just trying to claim how morally superior you are.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
I could get mugged and stabbed in Vancouver no different than Seattle.
Sure you can, and you can go to Amsterdam and enjoy the heroin capital of the world.
But is the chance of you being slaughtered by some psycho mass murderer with easy access to guns just as high as if you stayed in the good old USA?.
No.
Not at all.
Far from it.
I'd take a good old fashioned stabbing over a machine gun spray any day. Won't you?
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
Also what were the guns like in the time of the founding fathers?
Like a hand packed rifle with a 2 min reload rime or something? Not sure if they had in mind people walking around with weapons capable of killing dozens in seconds.
Sociologically too it's interesting to ponder why we assume the founders had the best idea then for how to structure our society now - when you think about it - they're people who never even saw a car, a plane, the internet, travel between countries in hours, their society was so wildly different that at some stage one has to wonder exactly WHY their decisions are sacrosanct.
Meanwhile I'd invite my USA friends to live in Australia for a while, we're just like a suburb of your city....it's really not that different culturally......no one is using IRAN or places that ARE different as an example....but the way you think no one could understand is really surprising....i think if you spent some time here you'd realise we're very similar.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
i dont think anybody here is even is damning US society, and i have been to probably about 10 different states, and grew up within a stones throw of Michigan, visited there many a time, and drivin through from ontario all the way to tennessee (like 12 hours) also visited texas, in fact i am pretty americanized as a canadian, i grew up on Detroit television, (i even say Z not zed), i know feet, inches, miles, lbs, farenheit better than the metric equivialnts, i grew up on MTV not Much Music, I grew up on American rock radio not the canadian content crap you see up here
anyway you guys are throwing the "you provide no viable fixes" we arent trying to fix anything, but when kids get shot in a school you'd think a reasonable person would think about trying to do something to make the youth safe....its sad that it has even come to this level tbh, and it makes me sad that the citizens of the USA, supposedly "the most civilized country in the world" and the answer is more guns and give them to teachers? take a step back and think about that shit...its fucked and i cant beleive you guys dont see it
and all of us outsiders have said we know your country wont have an easy time of it and that it would take decades but you guys just gloss over that part of our posts
all we have been doing is citing examples of gun control in our own countries of origin...ultimately its gonna come down to the US citizens deciding what is gonna work best..and god help us all at the decision...i have a feeling it'll be the same ol same ol, and every once in a while a mass murder will happen...eventually somethign has to give though...schools should be a safe haven for children...and its been a long time in the US when things have been safe in Highschools...now the parents in the USA have to worry about elementary schools too...when is enough enough? thats somehting for you americans to decide...i wont deny its gonna be a long hard road either way
all Canada is, is USA with stricter gun and liquor control, universal health care, a fucked up Gov't system, weird football rules and a bad army 
Divney is right tho....u guys are right on the defensive about this stuff, take a step back and see if things are the way they should be....if you are happy with your freedoms good and bad then who are we to make you change? its a very sad and unforunate situation though 
i had to attend a funeral for an infant not too long ago...that shit tore me up man, to see a little baby that didnt get a chance to do anything? man oh man one of toughest things ive ever had to do...now imagine doing that for 20 odd kids...its fucking terrible and shit like this shouldnt happen and any procaution needs to me made to stop it from happening again, these people will never hug their children again...and its not cuz of mental illness, its cuz some crazy bastard managed to get a god damn glock...an instrument designed soley for the purpose of killing humans...from his mother....if you are not in the army and stationed somewhere then you do not need a fucking glock....nothing you say will change that fact
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
i've said before guns aren't solely responsible. i'm not calling for americans to ban guns (as mrID claims). re-read my posts then maybe you'll understand.
a workable solution is stricter laws on who can obtain guns. a workable solution encompasses that w/better care & attention to those on the fringes of society & on the fringes of mental health. i'm just now repeating what i've already said.
And that's exactly what we've said in this thread.
I haven't said arm teachers. But I would like to see a police officer stationed at every school. All my schools had one growing up.
This discussion would have gone a lot smoother if the "what the fuck is wrong with you Americans" attitude didn't pop up, and the aggressive stance that we don't know what we're talking about with OUR OWN COUNTRY. And yes, that makes us defensive when we understand the situation very well. We live here, this is our home, we know the score better than anyone else outside this country. There is more going on than us protecting our right to bear arms, as some of you think. We're being realistic in that our situation is very different than other countries. I'm not saying we're better than anyone else. I'm saying Australia and England had much different circumstances than us. I do not know why that is so hard to understand.
And it's more than culture, it's also our poltical and judicial systems - about banning guns, and that's what a few of you WERE talking about. You're forgetting about our supreme court, who have the last say in these matters and are strict constitutionalists. And people will not give up their right to defend their home.
Again, both Buzz and I are not opposed to strict gun laws and restrictions -- what has been ignored is the effect of the guns that are already circulating will have, which you guys have no answer for. That's what WE HAVE TO LIVE WITH in this country. You don't. So it's easy to throw easy answers out there and say "I know it won't be easy" but then you act like it is so easy.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
No what's been lost is you feel there is no solution while others have offered beginner steps to begin making changes. You don't wanna hear it though because first of all you have a "can't" attitude and secondly you feel you are so unique and we could never grasp what Americans are all about or what you have to deal with. Such nonsense on your part.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
I think what surprises me most, except this gun debate, is how you won't even listen to people living on your doorstep. One thing is to slag off Scandinavians with our liberal this and that, strict gun control and strict alcohol policies, another thing is to push out Bono and Neemo, people so American there ain't no difference between them and a handful of Americans in your own country. That surprises me plenty.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
And people will not give up their right to defend their home.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
See Monkey those deaths from that graphic are the ones that I think guns controls are most likely to reduce. Not the mass shootings but all those "one on one" type of deaths where easy access to a gun has much more "permanent" consequences than other types of weapons.
Now as I said before the USA is different in that they have more guns and a different culture to most other places. BUT if they wanted to make a difference, albeit that it might take 1-2 generations plus and a whole heap of other changes not just guns controls, then these deaths are the ones that they could significantly impact on.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
Guns in the US is a bit like the cold war. One have a nuke, the other got a nuke. One got two nukes, the other get three nukes. Up until the point where everyone can destroy the planet 100 times over. Then they realized it perhaps was a bit of an overkill when they saw how a threat it had on our entire world, and decided to put some nuke control into action. Still not fixed entirely, but in some form of control since the late 80s.
But, it's not nukes that kill people. People do.
