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Re: Chinese photos show moon's surface in vivid detail
Admittedly, it is one heck of an accomplishment. I remember asking an older guy I worked with if there was talk of a conspiracy right away, he said no that came more like 5 or 10 years later. I then asked him about JFK, and if there were conspiracies on that, he responded "Yeah, the next day!"
Other than the Holocaust(and maybe WWII in general), the assassination of JFK was the biggest tragedy of the 20th century and easily the century's most monumental occurrence. Technically there was only one victim but the entire world was never the same afterwards. We still feel the effects of that tragedy to this day and will for the foreseeable future.
Re: Chinese photos show moon's surface in vivid detail
Bill Woods transcript:
"10 other programs of similar size; like the C5A, large submarine orders, or aircraft-carrier orders, all of the proposals were between 5,000 pages & 86,000 pages; with an average of 36,000 pages. And yet we see this one, standing there all by itself, at 110 pages. And it appeared to be, to me, that this may have been a situation where they knew that if anyone checked, that someone would say "well, in order to win this, you had to submit a proposal, right? so let me see the proposal."
1. It's actually more plausible with 60s tech to do it than to fake it. Doing it requires strapping yourself onto a zillion tons of TNT and hoping for the best. Faking it well requires video toys they didn't have.
That's why they had to do this:
2. Why fake it 9 times? Why not do it once and declare there's nothing there? Every time they fake it the level of cover up required gets more implausible.
Because it sounds a lot more credible of course, and why not use the set when you already have it built? Expensive to restart a tv show once it goes off the air.
3. Surely the soviets or someone else would have called them on their BS if there was even the slightest chance it was fake - given the rivalry at the time.
Soviets have their own skeletons:
Radio Moscow claimed that a Soviet cosmonaut, Yuri Gagarin, had been sent up into space on the morning of 12 April, 1961 with the space-rocket Mostok. According to the official announcement, he had already landed and was in fine health. The whole world believed this except for the Western intelligence services. They had not managed to register any radio communication between Gagarin and the space centre.
This hoax was sloppily orchestrated. Polish newspapers announced already on the morning of 12 April that a Soviet cosmonaut had been in space. Newspapers in other countries did not report Gagarin's flight until 13 April.
In a book written for the West, Soviet propagandists claimed that simple peasants recognized Yuri Gagarin soon after he landed in a field and enthusiastically shouted: "Gagarin, Gagarin!" But nothing about his "space journey" had been reported at that time, no pictures of him had been published and his name had not been mentioned. The message from radio and TV was sent out 35 minutes after the alleged journey. Were the peasants psychic?
The newspaper Sovetskaya Rossiya claimed that Gagarin was wearing a blue flightsuit when he landed. In his memoirs, Gagarin himself claimed he was dressed in an orange flightsuit.
At his press conference, Gagarin read from notes when he "related" his journey. During the press conference, he made several crucial mistakes. Gagarin stated that weightlessness was no problem. Everything seemed just normal. We now know that this is not the case. The cosmonaut German Titov, for example, had difficulties with his balance and had heart problems. American astronauts experienced similar symptoms.
Gagarin then made his most serious mistake, despite the fact that he was constantly assisted by experts, who often spoke about discoveries in space. He said: "Then I saw South America".
This is impossible. At that time it was night in South America, which meant that it could not be seen at all. According to the official reports, Gagarin began his "space journey" at 9:07 Moscow time. He was supposed to have flown over South America at 9:22 Moscow time. In Chile, the time would have been 2:22, in Brazil 3:22. He could never have reached South America in 15 minutes. For other cosmonauts it took 45 minutes.
Foreign journalists wondered: "When will the photographs that Gagarin took in space be published?" Gagarin was silent, thought for a moment and answered: "I didn't have a camera with me!"
Even unmanned Soviet space probes had photographic equipment on board. It would have been an important propaganda triumph to publish Gagarin's pictures from space. The Soviet Union would never have missed an opportunity like that. Shepard's pictures were cabled out immediately. Parts of his flight were also shown on TV.
China never released the pictures, but they did claim to have found evidence of the Apollo missions in 2010, with a probe they had sent to the moon. http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/sci/2 … 393210.htm
Yes, the old we have evidence but of course we are not going to show it.
Re: Chinese photos show moon's surface in vivid detail
That 'staging moon orbit' footage. I saw it years ago. was a tad fishy. Its either a rehearsal for the real thing or the hoax itself. Flip a coin. They make a good point about how that shitty quality broadcast is all that was allowed and the higher quality footage was never shown. If the moon landings really happened, they're hiding something. They seem to have a habit of doing things like this. The average person doesn't realize that the general public has never viewed the original Zapruder film either.
One thing I never liked about the whole thing and always gave me doubts is how in the living hell were they able to get OFF the moon back up to the probe? Yes I've heard the official story but I don't see how it is feasible in those conditions. You've had ZERO experience doing it, you only get ONE chance, and it goes off without a hitch.
Getting man to the moon, while extremely difficult and maybe impossible, is the LEAST of your worries. It's getting them BACK that is the big problem. What were their plans if they couldn't get them off the moon? If this is 100% legit, there had to be contingency plans in place. What were they?
Re: Chinese photos show moon's surface in vivid detail
The guy steering that must have been about as nervous as a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs.
Was just scrolling through a site that debunks the conspiracy. I had a feeling they'd do a good job on everything but the Van Allen belts. I was right.
The first US satellite into space was called Explorer 1. It had a simple geiger counter on board to detect radiation in space. As it was the very first of its kind, nobody knew how many counts of radiation hits would be recorded and so didn't know how to calibrate the equipment. The leading scientist of the time expected around 10-100 counts a minute. The geiger counter was set for that. After achieving orbit, the hits were higher and went off scale. It could mean 101 hits per minute or 1,000,001. The next satellite to study it (Explorer 4) would be calibrated better. But in the meantime the press were asking tough questions and wanted answers. The higher figure was constantly quoted for the headlines and let to an impression that space was full of deadly radiation that would kill a human in a few hours. This radiation zone became known as the Van Allen Radiation Belt after the scientist who interpreted the results. Later satellites proved this not to be the case. Part of the belts did have higher counts but as any spacecraft would only be in it for short periods, it didn't matter too much.
Bart Sebrel on the documentary said 'Hardly anybody knew about the Van Allen Radiation Belts...' Oohh really? Pick up any book on astronomy printed since around 1958 and there it all is. It was no secret.
Funny how they intentionally leave out the part where years later it was discovered that the belts are far more dangerous to humans than previously thought.
Why do tests need to be done on how it will impact humans when we should already know how humans can handle it due to missions forty years ago? Shouldn't it be easy as pie now that the technology has rapidly advanced?
edit: I love that comment on the vid when talking about new advanced shielding that will be "put to the test" to try and protect the craft from the VA belts.....
Why not just use the shielding that was used for the Apollo missions? 
NASA engineer: "Shielding will be put to the test as the vehicle cuts through the waves of radiation. Sensors aboard will record radiation levels for scientists to study. We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of space."
Re: Chinese photos show moon's surface in vivid detail
RaZor wrote:China never released the pictures, but they did claim to have found evidence of the Apollo missions in 2010, with a probe they had sent to the moon. http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/sci/2 … 393210.htm
Yes, the old we have evidence but of course we are not going to show it.
It's not unusual for China to withhold things from their own people and the world, they're known to be a very secretive government. They're also a government that likes to stick it to the US every chance they get. They challenge US naval power with their subs, and they build relationships with countries the US doesn't get along with. So them confirming the US's greatest accomplishment is kind of a big deal.
They're also not the only third party that has confirmed the moon landing. In the 90's, after the Cold War ended, Russia confirmed that they had tracked Apollo 11 on radar until it was out of range. In 2008, Japan sent a probe to the moon, released new high resolution pictures, and the landscapes matched those of the apollo images. There might be more, but that's all the comes to mind right now.
Re: Chinese photos show moon's surface in vivid detail
@James - I'm no expert, but none of this stuff about the Van Allen belt seems to be solid proof that the moon landing didn't happen. NASA knew about the belt, and about solar radiation, and shielded for it. It's possible they underestimated how strong the radiation was, but from what I've read about it, the problem with the belt had to do with long term exposure - it began to interfere with satellites. so further research maybe needed for the safety of long term space missions.
Again, I'm no expert, but that seems like a much more plausible explanation to the perceived discrepancy, than a far reaching conspiracy. Especially when there is such an orgy of evidence that supports that it actually happened, and other theories that were debunked.
Re: Chinese photos show moon's surface in vivid detail
polluxlm wrote:RaZor wrote:China never released the pictures, but they did claim to have found evidence of the Apollo missions in 2010, with a probe they had sent to the moon. http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/sci/2 … 393210.htm
Yes, the old we have evidence but of course we are not going to show it.
It's not unusual for China to withhold things from their own people and the world, they're known to be a very secretive government. They're also a government that likes to stick it to the US every chance they get. They challenge US naval power with their subs, and they build relationships with countries the US doesn't get along with. So them confirming the US's greatest accomplishment is kind of a big deal.
They're also not the only third party that has confirmed the moon landing. In the 90's, after the Cold War ended, Russia confirmed that they had tracked Apollo 11 on radar until it was out of range. In 2008, Japan sent a probe to the moon, released new high resolution pictures, and the landscapes matched those of the apollo images. There might be more, but that's all the comes to mind right now.
The simplest answer for why they wouldn't expose each other is because nobody would believe it. In some African countries it is common to hear conspiracy theories about how the west created AIDS to kill blacks. Just the magnitude of the claim is enough to be dismissed out of hand. American propaganda is not believed in Russia, just like Russian propaganda is not believed in America.
Despite being adversaries on the world stage they are still concerned with appearing like peaceful, proper countries, and engaging in conspiracy theories about the Apollo missions would quickly land you among the North Koreans and Iranians when it comes to international credibility. And naturally the USA has no interest in exposing Russian and Chinese versions of technological bread and circus, as that would only put their own efforts under the microscope.
In my opinion the rapid advances in flight and rocket technology during WWII lead governments to believe that everything was now within reach. They set out to conquer space. But it proved more difficult than they had imagined. So they faked it just because the public relations reward was too great to pass up. In a time of nuclear war scares, political assassinations, the Vietnam war, civil rights movement and hippie culture, the Apollo program was exactly what the government needed to put some national pride back into the citizenry.
Re: Chinese photos show moon's surface in vivid detail
But they had the option to not say anything at all, so that explanation doesn't really make sense.
They also had the option to show the pictures. Why even bring America into it if all they want to do is dazzle their own people? Because it is directed at the international stage, and few headlines would be better than "China revisits Apollo site", if they had the pictures that is.
Re: Chinese photos show moon's surface in vivid detail
RaZor wrote:But they had the option to not say anything at all, so that explanation doesn't really make sense.
They also had the option to show the pictures. Why even bring America into it if all they want to do is dazzle their own people? Because it is directed at the international stage, and few headlines would be better than "China revisits Apollo site", if they had the pictures that is.
There could be any number of reasons for them not wanting to release a photo, and that still doesn't take away from the fact that they didn't have to say anything at all. But they did.
