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Re: US Politics Thread
http://nypost.com/2017/10/25/why-doesnt … s-treason/
What’s the difference between the infamous Russian dossier on Donald Trump and that random fake-news story you saw on Facebook last year? The latter was never used by America’s intelligence community to bolster its case for spying on American citizens nor was it the foundation for a year’s worth of media coverage.
Then again, you get what you pay for. We now know Hillary Clinton and the Democratic National Committee paid as much as $9 million for the discredited dossier on Trump.
According to The Washington Post, a lawyer named Marc Elias, who represented both the 2016 Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee, had hired Fusion GPS, a DC firm working on behalf of the Russian government to soften sanctions at the time, to provide opposition research for them. The firm then hired a former British spy named Christopher Steele who reportedly purchased salacious rumors about Trump from the Russians.
Now, you might expect that the scandalous revelation of a political campaign using opposition research that was partially obtained from a hostile foreign power during a national election would ignite shrieks of “collusion” from all patriotic citizens. After all, only last summer, when it was reported that Donald Trump Jr. met with a Kremlin-linked Russian lawyer who claimed to be in possession of damaging information about Clinton, there was widespread condemnation.
Finally, we were told, a smoking gun tied the Trump campaign to Vladimir Putin. Former Democratic vice presidential candidate Tim Kaine went as far as to suggest that the independent counsel begin investigating treason.
Treason! Trump Jr. didn’t even pay for or accept research.
The Clinton crew, on the other hand, did. They didn’t openly push the contents of the dossier — probably because they knew it was mostly fiction. Instead, Fusion GPS leaked it to their friends in the media.
The dossier ended up in the possession of most major news outlets. Many journalists relied on Fusion GPS to propel coverage. BuzzFeed even posted the entire thing for Americans to read, even though it was more than likely its most scandalous parts were hatched by a foreign government.
The memo dominated newsrooms that were convinced Trump was a Manchurian candidate. No fake-news story came close to having this kind of impact.
Democrats in Washington are now pushing the “Honest Ads Act,” which creates a raft of new regulations and fines for Web sites that don’t do enough to combat fake news. Attempting to control the flow of information into our screens is the hobbyhorse of would-be censors. But since they’re at it, when do we get a bill that fines institutional media organizations that readily embrace bogus foreign dossiers?
Because the dossier didn’t just awaken the Russia-stole-our-democracy narratives in the media. It’s just as likely that the dossier was used by Clinton’s allies in the government.
The Obama administration reportedly relied on the dossier to bolster its spying on US citizens. We know of at least one case where the information was used to justify a FISA warrant on a Trump adviser. And let’s not forget that Steele had reached an agreement to be compensated for his efforts by the FBI.
SEE ALSO
Complaint claims Clinton, DNC broke the law by hiding dossier payments
Complaint claims Clinton, DNC broke the law by hiding dossier payments
None of this excuses the actions of Paul Manafort and others who may have benefitted from their relationship with the Russians. Yet, using the very standards Democrats have constructed over the past year, the Fusion GPS story is now the most tangible evidence we possess of Russian interference in the American election.And at some point, Democrats will have to decide whether it’s wrong for a political campaign to work with foreigners when obtaining opposition research or whether it’s acceptable. We can’t have different standards for Democrats and Republicans.
Otherwise people might start to get the idea that all the histrionics over the past year weren’t really about Russian interference at all, but rather about Hillary losing an election that they assumed she’d win.
Fuck Trump.
Fuck Trump yesterday, fuck Trump today, fuck Trump tomorrow.
If anything, the election of Donald Trump is a reminder that Americans don’t know what the fuck they want or what they’re doing.
The disgusting hypocrisy of a people who wake up in the morning and say, “hooray for me and fuck you (Peurto Rico, environment, healthcare, black people, immigrants, black people again, John McCain, Barack Obama, and anyone who would ever vote for Hillary).
I’m so disgusted with your hateful hypocrisy RF, but I at least admit that your group of hateful misfits are in control right now.
I’m seriously considering not voting in any elections for the foreseeable future. I think the knuckle draggers need to feel the pain of their temper tantrums.
So long as there are people in this word who wake up in the morning, turn on Fox News, wrap themselves in the American flag like a security blanket and say “I matter because I’m an American”....this country is never the imperfect masterpiece that that our forefathers strives for...
In the end, it’s just a bunch of selfish people who don’t care about their neighbors...in fact, Americans have nothing but disdain for each other.
That’s right...a disgusting culture of people who don’t want healthcare but do want a new big screen TV. That’s what we call freedom in this country. The “freedom” to make hateful, self-destructive decisions. The freedom to point at people who are not exactly like you and say, “you’re not a true American.” The freedom to go to McDonalds even though you have diabetes.
And finally, the freedom of the lowest classes of society to elect Donald Trump and watch Fox News everyday to be told what to think and how to consider something as an accomplishment instead of a failure.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: US Politics Thread
Randall Flagg wrote:http://nypost.com/2017/10/25/why-doesnt … s-treason/
What’s the difference between the infamous Russian dossier on Donald Trump and that random fake-news story you saw on Facebook last year? The latter was never used by America’s intelligence community to bolster its case for spying on American citizens nor was it the foundation for a year’s worth of media coverage.
Then again, you get what you pay for. We now know Hillary Clinton and the Democratic National Committee paid as much as $9 million for the discredited dossier on Trump.
According to The Washington Post, a lawyer named Marc Elias, who represented both the 2016 Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee, had hired Fusion GPS, a DC firm working on behalf of the Russian government to soften sanctions at the time, to provide opposition research for them. The firm then hired a former British spy named Christopher Steele who reportedly purchased salacious rumors about Trump from the Russians.
Now, you might expect that the scandalous revelation of a political campaign using opposition research that was partially obtained from a hostile foreign power during a national election would ignite shrieks of “collusion” from all patriotic citizens. After all, only last summer, when it was reported that Donald Trump Jr. met with a Kremlin-linked Russian lawyer who claimed to be in possession of damaging information about Clinton, there was widespread condemnation.
Finally, we were told, a smoking gun tied the Trump campaign to Vladimir Putin. Former Democratic vice presidential candidate Tim Kaine went as far as to suggest that the independent counsel begin investigating treason.
Treason! Trump Jr. didn’t even pay for or accept research.
The Clinton crew, on the other hand, did. They didn’t openly push the contents of the dossier — probably because they knew it was mostly fiction. Instead, Fusion GPS leaked it to their friends in the media.
The dossier ended up in the possession of most major news outlets. Many journalists relied on Fusion GPS to propel coverage. BuzzFeed even posted the entire thing for Americans to read, even though it was more than likely its most scandalous parts were hatched by a foreign government.
The memo dominated newsrooms that were convinced Trump was a Manchurian candidate. No fake-news story came close to having this kind of impact.
Democrats in Washington are now pushing the “Honest Ads Act,” which creates a raft of new regulations and fines for Web sites that don’t do enough to combat fake news. Attempting to control the flow of information into our screens is the hobbyhorse of would-be censors. But since they’re at it, when do we get a bill that fines institutional media organizations that readily embrace bogus foreign dossiers?
Because the dossier didn’t just awaken the Russia-stole-our-democracy narratives in the media. It’s just as likely that the dossier was used by Clinton’s allies in the government.
The Obama administration reportedly relied on the dossier to bolster its spying on US citizens. We know of at least one case where the information was used to justify a FISA warrant on a Trump adviser. And let’s not forget that Steele had reached an agreement to be compensated for his efforts by the FBI.
SEE ALSO
Complaint claims Clinton, DNC broke the law by hiding dossier payments
Complaint claims Clinton, DNC broke the law by hiding dossier payments
None of this excuses the actions of Paul Manafort and others who may have benefitted from their relationship with the Russians. Yet, using the very standards Democrats have constructed over the past year, the Fusion GPS story is now the most tangible evidence we possess of Russian interference in the American election.And at some point, Democrats will have to decide whether it’s wrong for a political campaign to work with foreigners when obtaining opposition research or whether it’s acceptable. We can’t have different standards for Democrats and Republicans.
Otherwise people might start to get the idea that all the histrionics over the past year weren’t really about Russian interference at all, but rather about Hillary losing an election that they assumed she’d win.
Fuck Trump.
Fuck Trump yesterday, fuck Trump today, fuck Trump tomorrow.
If anything, the election of Donald Trump is a reminder that Americans don’t know what the fuck they want or what they’re doing.
The disgusting hypocrisy of a people who wake up in the morning and say, “hooray for me and fuck you (Peurto Rico, environment, healthcare, black people, immigrants, black people again, John McCain, Barack Obama, and anyone who would ever vote for Hillary).
I’m so disgusted with your hateful hypocrisy RF, but I at least admit that your group of hateful misfits are in control right now.
I’m seriously considering not voting in any elections for the foreseeable future. I think the knuckle draggers need to feel the pain of their temper tantrums.
So long as there are people in this word who wake up in the morning, turn on Fox News, wrap themselves in the American flag like a security blanket and say “I matter because I’m an American”....this country is never the imperfect masterpiece that that our forefathers strives for...
In the end, it’s just a bunch of selfish people who don’t care about their neighbors...in fact, Americans have nothing but disdain for each other.
That’s right...a disgusting culture of people who don’t want healthcare but do want a new big screen TV. That’s what we call freedom in this country. The “freedom” to make hateful, self-destructive decisions. The freedom to point at people who are not exactly like you and say, “you’re not a true American.” The freedom to go to McDonalds even though you have diabetes.
And finally, the freedom of the lowest classes of society to elect Donald Trump and watch Fox News everyday to be told what to think and how to consider something as an accomplishment instead of a failure.
Mitch, I feel you on much of what you say and I also agree with the article RF posted. The article is correct and much of what you say is also correct. Even though the article makes great points, it doesn’t make me like Trump. But I am objective to see there are different rules for Hilary vs Trump.
Re: US Politics Thread
mitchejw wrote:Randall Flagg wrote:http://nypost.com/2017/10/25/why-doesnt … s-treason/
What’s the difference between the infamous Russian dossier on Donald Trump and that random fake-news story you saw on Facebook last year? The latter was never used by America’s intelligence community to bolster its case for spying on American citizens nor was it the foundation for a year’s worth of media coverage.
Then again, you get what you pay for. We now know Hillary Clinton and the Democratic National Committee paid as much as $9 million for the discredited dossier on Trump.
According to The Washington Post, a lawyer named Marc Elias, who represented both the 2016 Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee, had hired Fusion GPS, a DC firm working on behalf of the Russian government to soften sanctions at the time, to provide opposition research for them. The firm then hired a former British spy named Christopher Steele who reportedly purchased salacious rumors about Trump from the Russians.
Now, you might expect that the scandalous revelation of a political campaign using opposition research that was partially obtained from a hostile foreign power during a national election would ignite shrieks of “collusion” from all patriotic citizens. After all, only last summer, when it was reported that Donald Trump Jr. met with a Kremlin-linked Russian lawyer who claimed to be in possession of damaging information about Clinton, there was widespread condemnation.
Finally, we were told, a smoking gun tied the Trump campaign to Vladimir Putin. Former Democratic vice presidential candidate Tim Kaine went as far as to suggest that the independent counsel begin investigating treason.
Treason! Trump Jr. didn’t even pay for or accept research.
The Clinton crew, on the other hand, did. They didn’t openly push the contents of the dossier — probably because they knew it was mostly fiction. Instead, Fusion GPS leaked it to their friends in the media.
The dossier ended up in the possession of most major news outlets. Many journalists relied on Fusion GPS to propel coverage. BuzzFeed even posted the entire thing for Americans to read, even though it was more than likely its most scandalous parts were hatched by a foreign government.
The memo dominated newsrooms that were convinced Trump was a Manchurian candidate. No fake-news story came close to having this kind of impact.
Democrats in Washington are now pushing the “Honest Ads Act,” which creates a raft of new regulations and fines for Web sites that don’t do enough to combat fake news. Attempting to control the flow of information into our screens is the hobbyhorse of would-be censors. But since they’re at it, when do we get a bill that fines institutional media organizations that readily embrace bogus foreign dossiers?
Because the dossier didn’t just awaken the Russia-stole-our-democracy narratives in the media. It’s just as likely that the dossier was used by Clinton’s allies in the government.
The Obama administration reportedly relied on the dossier to bolster its spying on US citizens. We know of at least one case where the information was used to justify a FISA warrant on a Trump adviser. And let’s not forget that Steele had reached an agreement to be compensated for his efforts by the FBI.
SEE ALSO
Complaint claims Clinton, DNC broke the law by hiding dossier payments
Complaint claims Clinton, DNC broke the law by hiding dossier payments
None of this excuses the actions of Paul Manafort and others who may have benefitted from their relationship with the Russians. Yet, using the very standards Democrats have constructed over the past year, the Fusion GPS story is now the most tangible evidence we possess of Russian interference in the American election.And at some point, Democrats will have to decide whether it’s wrong for a political campaign to work with foreigners when obtaining opposition research or whether it’s acceptable. We can’t have different standards for Democrats and Republicans.
Otherwise people might start to get the idea that all the histrionics over the past year weren’t really about Russian interference at all, but rather about Hillary losing an election that they assumed she’d win.
Fuck Trump.
Fuck Trump yesterday, fuck Trump today, fuck Trump tomorrow.
If anything, the election of Donald Trump is a reminder that Americans don’t know what the fuck they want or what they’re doing.
The disgusting hypocrisy of a people who wake up in the morning and say, “hooray for me and fuck you (Peurto Rico, environment, healthcare, black people, immigrants, black people again, John McCain, Barack Obama, and anyone who would ever vote for Hillary).
I’m so disgusted with your hateful hypocrisy RF, but I at least admit that your group of hateful misfits are in control right now.
I’m seriously considering not voting in any elections for the foreseeable future. I think the knuckle draggers need to feel the pain of their temper tantrums.
So long as there are people in this word who wake up in the morning, turn on Fox News, wrap themselves in the American flag like a security blanket and say “I matter because I’m an American”....this country is never the imperfect masterpiece that that our forefathers strives for...
In the end, it’s just a bunch of selfish people who don’t care about their neighbors...in fact, Americans have nothing but disdain for each other.
That’s right...a disgusting culture of people who don’t want healthcare but do want a new big screen TV. That’s what we call freedom in this country. The “freedom” to make hateful, self-destructive decisions. The freedom to point at people who are not exactly like you and say, “you’re not a true American.” The freedom to go to McDonalds even though you have diabetes.
And finally, the freedom of the lowest classes of society to elect Donald Trump and watch Fox News everyday to be told what to think and how to consider something as an accomplishment instead of a failure.
Mitch, I feel you on much of what you say and I also agree with the article RF posted. The article is correct and much of what you say is also correct. Even though the article makes great points, it doesn’t make me like Trump. But I am objective to see there are different rules for Hilary vs Trump.
Thank you SG....I needed that this morning.
Re: US Politics Thread
But I am objective to see there are different rules for Hilary vs Trump.
I'm not asking 'you' directly here, more of an open ended question, but do you think Hillary was a poor choice as candidate to run, or do you think she had a bad campaign strategy?
Re: US Politics Thread
Smoking Guns wrote:But I am objective to see there are different rules for Hilary vs Trump.
I'm not asking 'you' directly here, more of an open ended question, but do you think Hillary was a poor choice as candidate to run, or do you think she had a bad campaign strategy?
C) All of the above
Re: US Politics Thread
PaSnow wrote:Smoking Guns wrote:But I am objective to see there are different rules for Hilary vs Trump.
I'm not asking 'you' directly here, more of an open ended question, but do you think Hillary was a poor choice as candidate to run, or do you think she had a bad campaign strategy?
C) All of the above
Copout. lol
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: US Politics Thread
Smoking Guns wrote:But I am objective to see there are different rules for Hilary vs Trump.
I'm not asking 'you' directly here, more of an open ended question, but do you think Hillary was a poor choice as candidate to run, or do you think she had a bad campaign strategy?
I don’t think she was a bad candidate. In that I can’t think of anyone more qualified, informed and capable. But she’s always had a sense of entitlement that rubs many the wrong way, and this manifested in her campaign strategy. She ignored the backbone of this country and her own record in order to appeal herself to the progressives, and it failed. Identity politics is not a winning solution, as it results in everyone competing to be the biggest victim; it encourages people to focus on obscure differences rather than common similarities.
Clinton felt she was owed the Presidency and never assessed her weaknesses. If you’ve read her book, this is objectively true. For me, a huge part of leadership and management is ownership. Owning your failures and mistakes and learning from them to enhance future successes. Hillary refuses to accept ownership of all her faults. And that’s a fundamental similarity between her and Trump. We saw this with the email scandal, but it’s never been more apparent than in her refusal to acknowledge her campaign failures and ultimate loss.
I wonder if the end result in terms of legislative failures would be any different if she had won. I’m inclined to believe it’s self evident she wouldn’t own the failures to get her reforms through congress - she’d blame others. And in that end, I don’t make a distinction between calling people “losers” over Twitter or saying “X doesn’t care about Y and wants them to die by not passing this bill”. They’re both intellectually dishonest and are meant to appeal to low information voters who want a talking point to regurgitate. I don’t think putting lip stick on the pig changes the fact it’s still a pig. But some people, predominately on the left, believe that by changing the vocabulary the accusation is some how less offensive. Only the weak minded accept this train of thought.
Re: US Politics Thread
Smoking Guns wrote:But I am objective to see there are different rules for Hilary vs Trump.
I'm not asking 'you' directly here, more of an open ended question, but do you think Hillary was a poor choice as candidate to run, or do you think she had a bad campaign strategy?
There was a lot wrong...
1) the arrogance to try and run up the score and campaign in places she had no chance of winning (how did she repeatedly go to Texas but never stepped foot in Wisconsin/Michigan?).
2) I think men have difficulty voting for a woman in some parts of this country.
3) interesting fact: trump won Wisconsin with almost the exact vote total as Romney. Obviously Romney lost Wisconsin. It’s interesting to me because it shows how many less people actually voted in 2016.
4) trump wasn’t afraid to promise the world to his voters knowing full well he could never deliver.
5) I think her senate run turned some people off...she moved to NY and became a resident just to further her political career.
6) the dnc playing favorites really unmotivated likely Hillary voters
7) Bernie voters taking their ball and going home
Just a few thoughts...
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: US Politics Thread
https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk
The files have been released.
If Hilary was black she would have one. She lost because the black vote didn’t show up.
