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- Communist China
- Rep: 130
Re: If Finck is gone.....
James Lofton wrote:I don't know if I would call that "stable".
well the same lineup was together for almost 2 years without changes....thats what i meant it has to be some kind of modern era gnr record
I don't know, doesn't Brain's departure count?
Re: If Finck is gone.....
Richard and Ron could easily handle the reamains themselves, but if you'd ask me personally, they need a third person.
Is that person Buckethead? Is that person still Robin?
I have no idea - but I hope that they'll be able to fix this, and I hope they'll be able to fix it good.
Things were shaping up to be so goddamn good (at least it seemed that way) and something like this just have to happen. It's so typical.
And we don't even know what's going on at the moment. We can only guess.
I've got the same feeling now as I did back when the shows in South Africa got cancelled.
- DoubleTalkingJive
- Rep: 74
Re: If Finck is gone.....
Neemo wrote:well this most recent lineup olled somewhat stable so not sure what turned the tables to cause him to leave
It lasted through 06 until the cancellations in late 06/early 07, the SA fuckup, various other postponements and cancellations. Not to mention an unfinished album.
I don't know if I would call that "stable".
Maybe he just got fed up. He is a musician. He wants to create music and release it. He isn't getting any younger, his resume is small, and there's no sense in wasting his talent any longer because one man cant seem to move forward.
Exactly what I said in the support Finck thread. I mean how many years are these musicians supposed to wait and do play the same shit over and over.
Re: If Finck is gone.....
I agree with Supaplex, 1 shredder is enough, I wouldn't want BH & BBF in the same band & stage. Although I do hope BH rejoins. I don't see it happening.
As for Robin, could it be his contract is now over. Maybe he was 'under contract' until the album was finished. Axl has said the album is finished. So, as a free agent, with no contract for GnR that is paying him or to tour, he accepted NIN's offer. Maybe he just said 'Fuck it, I'll do it.' Does anyone know for a fact that the bandmates are getting revenue off of album sales or could they have strictly been paid a salary.
Re: If Finck is gone.....
I have to say if Finck is gone - I hope Bucket Head doesn't come back.
Now hear me out on this one.
Whilst I think he is a magician on the guitar and I really love his work on what I have heard on the leaks - I simply don't think his weird antics/ pathetic look are right for this band.
I think back to the days when he was in the band and I would have discussions with friends about GN'R. After I got past the conversations and comments like "are they still around?" , or "what? Isn't Slash in the band anymore?". When I did come accross people that knew what was happening and that Bucket Head was in the band, they would usually talk about GN'R and BH with such derision! And this was from people who were once big fans of the band.
Once BH left and Finck lost his goth look - they actually looked like a band, you know a group of guys that fit the image of Guns N' Roses. I think the current lineup went quite some way to mending some bridges and gaining some acceptance as a band and GN'R.
But seriously, if we are gonna go back to chicken coops, puppy shit, nunchaka's and a mute wearing a KFC bucket on his head and a phantom of the opera mask - pesonally I think it kills the bands credability and reduces the acceptance of this band on more of mainstream level.
No question BH has ability and I would love to hear from a CD point everything he brings, but if I want to see a freakshow or weird shit of people in masks etc I will go to the circus, or go to a Lordi or a Slipknot concert. I just think having him in the band really affects the credability of the GN'R name (yeah I know you could argue Axl has done more to drag the name thru the mud than anyone else - but you get the idea).
At least the current lineup looked like a band you could call GN'R - with BH 
I'm sorry it just doesn't work for me and I think it hurts them because on a more universal level it is harder for Joe Average Fan to accept.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: If Finck is gone.....
If Fink is gone it would allow the band to put the silly 3 guitarists concept to bed once and for all.
95% of the songs Axl plays live were written with 2 guitar parts: a rhythym part, and a lead part that bounces off it. Playing these songs with 3 guitarists either causes people to be on stage doing fuck all for 1/2 a song, and/or duplicating the rhythm part already being played - which does nothing except mess up the balance of a sound that was designed for 2 part harmonies.
Yes 1 or 2 of the new songs have parts that utalise 3 guitars at once (Maddy comes to mind). However this needn't be an issue...they could still have overdubs on the album. Live, well, just play the strongest lines audiable in the mix (which is basicly what 90% of bands do anyway when peforming songs live). The same way that Axl will sing 1 vocal line live when on the albums he mirrors his own parts in backup/harmonies/overdubs etc. Most of the time the playing of the 3 guitars at once live just leads to a blur of sound or mixing problems anyway. Especially in maddy.
So now that you all hate me for saying all that. Why don't we address why we have 3 guitarists on the album anyway? Is it part of some grand political statement from the band? I don't believe so. I think its basicly because Robin - as talented as he is - is NOT good enough to be the lead guitarist in GNR. Or he refuses to play in the traditional style for those songs. Now I know I'll get flamed to hell for saying that. But hear me out. Robin has some definate skills and beautiful sound - which I guess is why he was never fired from the band - hell he wrote "better" which is a kickass song, and the AWESOME solo in the "The Blues", and i'd guess some other great stuff on the album. So i'm not a total hater of him.
But he has his problems too. I'm not sure why - if its just differences in his style or whatever - but he either can't or won't do justice to MANY of the solos on the old records. And I find that really shocking from the lead guitarist. I think its why many people winge about reunions - those guitar lines are classics just the way the lines of the singing melody are. If VR sang a GNR song and changed the tune dramaticly they'd be boo'd, hell even if axl did it, there would be some eyebrows raised. You don't mess with the lyrics to things that are famous like that. Likewise...some of those solos are famous the same way - and they need to be reproduced faithfully. Perhaps not note for note - but at least with most of the key phrases of the record intact with some room for improvisation to keep it fresh and fun each night. As long as it still honours the bits we know as "the song". Yet robin often gets up there and plays solos that are drasticly different from the 'official' version. true I think some people hate him just cos he isn't slash - but I also think if he (or some other GNR guitarist) played the songs closer to how they actually used to sound there would be far less complaints. Richard does this to an extent - and I think tharts why he cops less abuse about his solos. Anyway - for whatever reason robin doesn't play them "right". It was even worse and outright shocking to me in 2000-2 (I was surprised they would even play a public gig like that) - and i'll grant him that theres been improvments of late - ie 2006 and 2007. But its still some of the issue.
So getting back to my point. I think bucket was essentially brought in, in the first place to do the things robin can't. Robin has some great bluesy tone (love his solo spots he does on stage) - and that went part of the way to replacing slash (which as much as slash is a bad word on GNR forums - lets face it - Robin the man was hired to replace the lead guitarst) - but he doesn't have the speed slash has. So you bring in bucket - a man who can outplay slash in speed many many times over. But robin had obviously contributed much in the way of the bluesy solos in the new songs (eg the blues) and 'better' and whatever else we dont know of. So it made no sence to get rid of him. So why not keep both. Hense we have 3 guitarists. Hell - when robin left last time - axl all but said that now robin was gone they'd be able to use better and more technically skilled guitarists. he said something about "taking the parts that step further" and that he hasn't been rude enough to say it to robin previously.
Anyway...if he is gone again. The need for 3 guitarists vanishes again. All this could be solved by choosing a lead guitarist that is appropriate to the style of the old music. I don't think bucket is the man for the job - although he has skills to mop the floor with slash - as in general his shred style and electronic tone don't suit many of the old songs. True he can play with beautiful emotion when he wants to. But will he want to? He turned the nighttrain outtro into a shred-off....which i'll grant is kinda cool...but would he do that to all the songs if he was the only lead guitarist? Also as the poster above says...much of his gimick just doesn't gell with GNR.
Ron has more potential to work. I think a Ron/Richard combo could be interesting. Although I must say when i saw ron live i thought his tone was WAY too processed. He had that electronic sound happening. Also - i'd be happier if whoever the lead guitarst became took the time to learn everything associated with the band - even if theres fuck all chance of axl playing some of it. I mean some people say its "bullshit" when fans call for a reunion. But then I ask what is it when one of the 2 lead guitarists in GNR doesn't know what "Double Talking Jive" is? Its not like its some demo or B-side song either. I mean its not "cornshucker" or something...we're talkign about a track from one of the bands massive albums. that's the bullshit. And when people call for slash some of them probably want slash - but I think others are just offended at this kind of thing, or at robin stlyle re-arrangments of guitar parts that are world famous. Get ron to play them all live, and honour the style of them (which is is easily proficient enough to do) and I think the reunion nonsence would go away.
I'm not anti ron - he joined the band way fast and in a strange replacment role of the 2nd lead guitarist. And he does have amazing guitar skills, and is fan-friendly, and the 'don't cry' thing shows he does have some respect for the older stuff. So i'm not anti Ron - I think he could be interesting if given the chance to be the real lead guitarist. But even he isn't quite a perfect fit to me - unless he adapts what he does - which he might.
However...the need for 3 players could have been avoided all along if someone versitile like him had been recruited in the beginning. Someone like Doug Aldrich - who can shred with the best of them - so he can play the shreddy bits axl wants in the new songs - but he also can play the blues in a style that would be respectul to both slash and robins recorded works. He could nail that stuff and it would be as good or better than the originals I think. If robin is gone. thats what GNR needs to do - go back to 2 guitarists and hire someone like Aldrich who can cover all bases and is actually a proper fit with the band.
Well...I bet you all hate me now!! Watch my karma go to like -100 overnight.
Re: If Finck is gone.....
its a pretty good post..but i think that part of the reason ron sounds so processed is cuz hes so accurate with his finger placement
anyway gnr wont go back to 2 guitarists...its been a long dream of Axl's way back from the early 90's and i think its more than just madagascar that has been written for 3 guitars...actually like a couple people have said, it was written for 3 guitars (rir 3 actually had axl as a 4th guitar for maddy) then brian may added some stuff, Richard added stuff and ron added stuff...its possible that we may hear tracks that have up to 7 different guitar players with parts on it 
i also agree that there are times when the sound gets a bit muddy
Re: If Finck is gone.....
it seems the attitude over there is that regardless of who is in the band this week, you're supposed to leap into blind worship mode
Yeah it's rather retarded.
I vote for Buckethead. GNR never sounded better than when he was in the band playing his solos. It was magic.
But I think it's close to impossible to bring him back.
But please do, he's a fucking magician.
Bumblefoot and BH wouldn't work though. Giants in the playground.... 
Re: If Finck is gone.....
So now that you all hate me for saying all that. Why don't we address why we have 3 guitarists on the album anyway? Is it part of some grand political statement from the band? I don't believe so. I think its basicly because Robin - as talented as he is - is NOT good enough to be the lead guitarist in GNR. Or he refuses to play in the traditional style for those songs. Now I know I'll get flamed to hell for saying that. But hear me out. Robin has some definate skills and beautiful sound - which I guess is why he was never fired from the band - hell he wrote "better" which is a kickass song, and the AWESOME solo in the "The Blues", and i'd guess some other great stuff on the album. So i'm not a total hater of him.
Now, I'm a stern supporter of Robin and his personal style. But.
While a part of me might hate to admit it, you do have a point there. While Robin has a distinctive style, stage presence and some obvious writing skills, he's not the kind of guy you put next to Slash. One reason for this is obviously apples and oranges; Slash is the bona fide guitar hero, one of the worlds finest in what he does. To challenge that sort of a monster is daunting for anyone, and to make matters "worse", Robin in many ways has different semantics as player. He's not Slash and if anyone dares to think otherwise, he's quick to put such illusions to bed.
I think the reason Robin has been in the band for so long (particularly vital is his return in '00), is that Axl got into his playing and decided to devise a new GNR sound partially around it. If Brian May and Dave Navarro would've been involved during his Fragility stint because Axl considered Robin to be a total slacker, he would've never been re-hired. His parts would've been redone by someone else, while he would've gotten some writing credits.
There's another reason for Navarro, May and Bucket coexisting with Robin, I believe. And that's really the simple equation: Robin, while a capable performer and song writer, isn't a guitar hero the way that term can be applied to the aforementioned chaps (and Slash). If you listen to the '99 demos of IRS and TWAT (by Axl/Robin/Huge/Tommy/Freese/Dizzy), you get basically the same songs, only without the riveting Bucket solos. It's not a question whether guys like Robin, Paul and Tommy couldn't write solid songs. It's just that the band was still lacking that secret ingredient which was Slash in the days of Coma, Estranged and November Rain. It's a tall order to record a solo that would not only compliment the existing work, but also elevate it to a stage where people could say it can be put against any similar GNR song of the old days, without people going "where's Slash?"
It's not about beating Slash in his own game. It's more about the fact that GNR has always had a rather traditional (yet solid) song structure underneath, above which are Axl's distinctive vocals and Slash's solos. While Robin & co were able to provide the foundation for that work, they fell short in creating solos that could truly provide a counterpart for Axl's long wails. After trying old favorites Navarro and May, Axl struck gold with the inclusion of Buckethead, who was able to go just as outlandish as Axl dared to ask - he was truly the 'Slash of the new lineup', so to speak, having the moniker of a guitar hero while fitting into this particular fold much better than Slash would've ever did.
It was also a pleasure to see Robin and Bucket together. Robin seemed to have caught up fast; he was the 'leading man', while Bucket was the bands secret weapon, who was able to make the bands overall sound much better without appearing tacked-on. Guess Robin was relieved about it as well - he got the best of both worlds, playing lead in GNR while maintaining his personal sound. For everything else, there was Bucket. He probably sounded even a bit too confident about it with the "interpretation" of the solos you speak of. Would be nice to know how Bucket's resignation affected Robin, as a player and a band member.
But I take it Robin knows what he is and what he's not. With some of his versions of the old songs, he would've been a bad fit to the old band. Just as Slash would be a bad fit to this one.
But maybe two guitars is enough.
Robin and Bucket. For heightened effect, there's always Pittman, ready to deliver a preprogrammed boost.
And if we'd now be down to Richard and Ron in a live setting, all I can say is that the combined talent and potential in the band just took another step down.
