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- NY Giants82
- Rep: 26
Re: The NFL 2007-08 Season thread
How many years does the guy get a free pass with growing pains? The guy was handed the starting job without even earning it. Fuck growing pains. If the Giants felt he was ready to carry the franchise, then I think year 3 is time to stop the excuses. They had a proven QB at the helm(Warner) and just tossed him aside mid season so Eli could have some growing pains and because his last name was Manning. Here we are three years later, the team has went downhill in that time frame, and Coughlin is REALLY close to losing his job there.
The team has slid in the Eli era. He is as predictable as a sunset. Plays ok early in the season, starts sucking, and then the Giants slide. repeat every year. I do think they will make the playoffs, but if the usual Eli regression happens, there is a chance they will miss the playoffs. A few teams are right on their trail.
As a hardcore Giants fan, I want to ask you this question: How many more years of "growing pains" are allowed before you are willing to call him a bust and have the team try and pick up the pieces?
Different QBs develop at different rates. In fact, I think Eli has developed nicely. Would I like him to have to developed quicker? Sure, but he is fine as of now.
Warner was brought in as a stop gap and to make the transition easier for Eli. He came in knowing what he was being brought here for. They Giants got Eli in the draft, and then signed Warner shortly thereafter. He knew what he was coming in for. And it has nothing to do with his last name. You dont get drafted based on your last name. NFL teams dont draft that high based on name alone. This isnt the NBA.
This is the third year Eli has started. The Giants are also on their way to making the playoffs for the third straight year. Eli has nothing to do with that, right? They won the division his first year starting. Nothing to do with that either? Also, can you tell me how they slide every year under Eli? They started the season in 2005 6-2, the second half they were 5-3. Yeah they sure slid then didnt they. In 2006, 6-2 to start, and finished 2-6. Yes that did suck, but there were other factors involved if you really want to get into that.
Re: The NFL 2007-08 Season thread
In Eli's defense the same thing happened with QB;'s named Alex Smith, Rivers, Palmer, Leftwich, Vick, Grossman, Marc Bulger ec... Young QB's given the franchise & not doing a whole lot with it right now. Well, Vick isn't young, but he was basically GIVEN the starting job in ATL automatically in year 2, & they let him play no matter how bad he would get.
thanks for doing that, i was gonna yesterday but i didnt get the chance. but yeah that was my assesment too, seems QBs are taking longer to develope these days, but rothesburger is prolly the mosdt accopmplished young QB in recent years but even the SB year the steeelers had he had loads of help around him
I thought Smith was going to be amazing but the rest of the team is so shit in SanFran that its hard to say how good he really is
Grossman is hugely disappointing, Ei is way better than him
Palmer puts up great numbers but i dont understand why Cinci cant do anything 
Rivers is on the verge, but its make or break for him in the next season or two i think, if the Chargers dont make it to the Superbowl soon then they'll move on IMO
- NY Giants82
- Rep: 26
Re: The NFL 2007-08 Season thread
PaSnow wrote:In Eli's defense the same thing happened with QB;'s named Alex Smith, Rivers, Palmer, Leftwich, Vick, Grossman, Marc Bulger ec... Young QB's given the franchise & not doing a whole lot with it right now. Well, Vick isn't young, but he was basically GIVEN the starting job in ATL automatically in year 2, & they let him play no matter how bad he would get.
thanks for doing that, i was gonna yesterday but i didnt get the chance. but yeah that was my assesment too, seems QBs are taking longer to develope these days, but rothesburger is prolly the mosdt accopmplished young QB in recent years but even the SB year the steeelers had he had loads of help around him
I thought Smith was going to be amazing but the rest of the team is so shit in SanFran that its hard to say how good he really is
Grossman is hugely disappointing, Ei is way better than him
Palmer puts up great numbers but i dont understand why Cinci cant do anything
Rivers is on the verge, but its make or break for him in the next season or two i think, if the Chargers dont make it to the Superbowl soon then they'll move on IMO
Roethlisberger was put in a perfect situation. He went to a team that had a great defense, great running game, and a coaching staff that brought him along correctly and didnt ask too much of its young QB. That means a lot.
Smith was coming along last year with Norv Turner tutoring him. Since he left, I dont know really what happened. He doesnt seem to have much help on offense.
I was never impressed with Grossman at the collegiate level, but thought he might be able to develop similar to how the Steelers brought Roethlisberger along. Maybe the early injuries in his career hampered him. He also lets things get to him too easy (media and fan criticism).
Palmer is the best of the young QBs. The Bengals problem has been a defense that is terrible. I think he is the next elite QB.
Rivers could go either way. In the situation and system he was in last year, he looked like he was going to be a very efficient QB. He had the best RB in the game, probably the best TE in the league (a QBs best friend), and a great defense to give him great field position. This year the whole team seems to be falling apart. Norv is just not Head Coaching material. A coaching staff can make or break a QB and his development. We'll see where the Chargers go the rest of the year and so on.
Re: The NFL 2007-08 Season thread
Jameslofton wrote:How many years does the guy get a free pass with growing pains? The guy was handed the starting job without even earning it. Fuck growing pains. If the Giants felt he was ready to carry the franchise, then I think year 3 is time to stop the excuses. They had a proven QB at the helm(Warner) and just tossed him aside mid season so Eli could have some growing pains and because his last name was Manning. Here we are three years later, the team has went downhill in that time frame, and Coughlin is REALLY close to losing his job there.
The team has slid in the Eli era. He is as predictable as a sunset. Plays ok early in the season, starts sucking, and then the Giants slide. repeat every year. I do think they will make the playoffs, but if the usual Eli regression happens, there is a chance they will miss the playoffs. A few teams are right on their trail.
As a hardcore Giants fan, I want to ask you this question: How many more years of "growing pains" are allowed before you are willing to call him a bust and have the team try and pick up the pieces?
Different QBs develop at different rates. In fact, I think Eli has developed nicely. Would I like him to have to developed quicker? Sure, but he is fine as of now.
Warner was brought in as a stop gap and to make the transition easier for Eli. He came in knowing what he was being brought here for. They Giants got Eli in the draft, and then signed Warner shortly thereafter. He knew what he was coming in for. And it has nothing to do with his last name. You dont get drafted based on your last name. NFL teams dont draft that high based on name alone. This isnt the NBA.
This is the third year Eli has started. The Giants are also on their way to making the playoffs for the third straight year. Eli has nothing to do with that, right? They won the division his first year starting. Nothing to do with that either? Also, can you tell me how they slide every year under Eli? They started the season in 2005 6-2, the second half they were 5-3. Yeah they sure slid then didnt they. In 2006, 6-2 to start, and finished 2-6. Yes that did suck, but there were other factors involved if you really want to get into that.
So if he was Eli Jones he would have went just as high? I don't think so.
As far as the Warner/Eli thing, you may be right as I am not much of a Giants fan, but I remember Warner being pretty pissed about that fiasco. Didn't his wife even make some comments regarding that situation? In my opinion, Warner should have remained the starter for at least two years. That gives Eli time to learn the system on the sideline, and would be more comfortable once he is brought in as the starter. Warner almost passed for 500 yards on Sunday. He clearly still has the skills, so giving up on him just to throw Eli to the wolves was a bit ridiculous.
Yeah, QBs take different amounts of time to develop, but like I asked you earlier, when do you give up and start looking elsewhere? Its obvious year 3 isn't your threshold. Year five? Six?
Re: The NFL 2007-08 Season thread
MIAMI - Ricky Williams' latest comeback lasted one game.
The Miami Dolphins running back will miss the rest of the season with a torn chest muscle, according to his agent, Leigh Steinberg.
Williams was hurt Monday at Pittsburgh, when he played in his first game in nearly two years. He returned following a 1 1/2-year suspension for his latest violation of the NFL drug policy.
Steinberg said the arm will be in a sling from four to six weeks and the rehab will take five months.
But Steinberg said Williams expects to be ready for next season.
"It's sad given how hopeful Ricky had been about his return to football and given the amount of effort Ricky had put into his rehabilitation. But he's optimistic and hopeful for the future."
With a winless record, the Dolphins were desperate for help and eager to showcase Williams in hopes of increasing his trade value. Coach Cam Cameron decided to play Williams only a week after he joined practice.
"My No. 1 concern coming into the game, when you hurry a guy back, obviously he could get hurt," Cameron said after the game.
The team was off Tuesday, and a spokesman for the Dolphins said they had no comment on Williams' status. Miami is 0-11 and plays the New York Jets on Sunday.
Williams was injured in the second quarter Monday on a play when he fumbled. After being tackled, he was accidentally stepped on while chest-down on the ground.
Williams left the game, returned briefly and departed for good after one more carry. He finished with 15 yards in six carries, and the Dolphins lost 3-0 on a last-minute field goal.
Miami running back Jesse Chatman sat out the second half with a neck injury, and his availability for the Jets game is in doubt. The Dolphins' other running backs are Patrick Cobbs and rookie Lorenzo Booker.
The Dolphins lost starter Ronnie Brown for the season to a knee injury last month.
Williams, the 2002 NFL rushing champion, has played in only 13 games since retiring in the summer of 2004. He has tested positive for marijuana at least four times since the Dolphins acquired him in 2002, and their franchise-record playoff drought began that same year.
Williams hasn't missed an NFL game because of an injury since 2000 when he was with the New Orleans Saints.
Re: The NFL 2007-08 Season thread
The latest power rankings. These get more interesting by the week, and I like how they don't just use records to determine your spot late in the year. Interesting that the Giants moved down a bit, Eagles moved up, and Detroit and Tennessee dropped from the top 12 even though they are currently in a wild card position(well, in Detroit's case anyways). They must have looked at Detroit's remaining schedule and have come to the same conclusion as me that they aren't going to the playoffs.
'¢ 1. Patriots (11-0)
'¢ 2. Packers (10-1)
'¢ 3. Cowboys (10-1)
'¢ 4. Colts (9-2)
'¢ 5. Steelers (8-3)
'¢ 6. Jaguars (8-3)
'¢ 7. Bucs (7-4)
'¢ 8. Seahawks (7-4)
'¢ 9. Browns (7-4)
'¢ 10. Chargers (6-5)
'¢ 11. Giants (7-4)
'¢ 12. Eagles (5-6)
the rest:
13. MINNESOTA (5-6, previous rank: 19) - Vikings QBs have passed for fewer yards than opposing QBs in all 11 games this year.
14. TENNESSEE (6-5, previous rank: 9) - After turning in three straight 100-yard games during a three-game win streak, RB Lendale White has totaled 29 carries for 81 yards and 2.8 YPA over Tennessee's three-game losing streak.
15. DETROIT (6-5, previous rank: 12) - The Lions' top four WRs (Roy Williams, Calvin Johnson, Mike Furrey and Shaun McDonald) are on pace for a combined 3,420 yards.
16. NEW ORLEANS (5-6, previous rank: 22) - WR Marques Colston has 584 receiving yards and 42 catches over his last five games.
17. WASHINGTON (5-6, previous rank: 16) - Another rough season in Washington gets unfathomably worse with the death of Sean Taylor.
18. HOUSTON (5-6, previous rank: 18) - With four Quality Opponents left to play (Tennessee, Tampa, Indy, Jaacksonville), the Texans are longshots to reach .500, let alone the playoffs.
19. ARIZONA (5-6, previous rank: 15) - The Cardinals rank 10th in passing yards (2,820), but just 28th in yards after catch (833).
20. CHICAGO (5-6, previous rank: 23) - The Bears lead the NFL with 32 dropped passes.
21. CINCINNATI (4-7, previous rank: 25) - Carson Palmer's INTs are up sharply since last season (2.5 percent of throws in 2006, 3.6 percent in 2007) despite a dip in sacks (2.3 per game in 2006, 1.4 per game in 2007)
22. DENVER (5-6, previous rank: 17) - Brandons (Stokley and Marshall) have accounted for 51.4 percent of the Broncos' passing yards.
23. BUFFALO (5-6, previous rank: 20) - The Bills have been outgained by an astounding 4,163-2,941 margin this season.
24. KANSAS CITY (4-7, previous rank: 21) - Team nickname is 'Chiefs.'
25. ATLANTA (3-8 previous rank: 24) - Starting tailback Warrick Dunn averages 3.2 YPA, backup Jerious Norwood 5.7. In 2006, it was Dunn 4.0, Norwood 6.4.
26. OAKLAND (3-8, previous rank: 30) - A scrambler no more: QB Daunte Culpepper has rushed for 40 yards on 20 carries this season.
27. BALTIMORE (4-7, previous rank: 26) - The Ravens have registered just 22 sacks this year, and Terrell Suggs leads with four. In 2006, four different Ravens had chalked up 10+ sacks.
28. ST. LOUIS (2-9, previous rank: 29) - Isn't Gus Frerotte a little old (36) to still be playing like a rookie (51.8 passer rating)?
29. NEW YORK JETS (2-9, previous rank: 27) - Of the Jets' first 12 drives vs. Green Bay, 11 of them were four plays or less.
30. SAN FRANCISCO (3-8, previous rank: 31) - The Niners' 37 points vs. Arizona was only 23 less than they'd scored in their previous seven games combined (60).
31. CAROLINA (4-7, previous rank: 28) - Why so low? Carolina has been outscored 133-50 in its five games since their bye (all losses).
32. MIAMI (0-11, previous rank: 32) - Just when the Dolphins remember how to play defense (36 points allowed in their last four games), their offense falls apart (27 points in four games).
- NY Giants82
- Rep: 26
Re: The NFL 2007-08 Season thread
NY Giants82 wrote:Jameslofton wrote:How many years does the guy get a free pass with growing pains? The guy was handed the starting job without even earning it. Fuck growing pains. If the Giants felt he was ready to carry the franchise, then I think year 3 is time to stop the excuses. They had a proven QB at the helm(Warner) and just tossed him aside mid season so Eli could have some growing pains and because his last name was Manning. Here we are three years later, the team has went downhill in that time frame, and Coughlin is REALLY close to losing his job there.
The team has slid in the Eli era. He is as predictable as a sunset. Plays ok early in the season, starts sucking, and then the Giants slide. repeat every year. I do think they will make the playoffs, but if the usual Eli regression happens, there is a chance they will miss the playoffs. A few teams are right on their trail.
As a hardcore Giants fan, I want to ask you this question: How many more years of "growing pains" are allowed before you are willing to call him a bust and have the team try and pick up the pieces?
Different QBs develop at different rates. In fact, I think Eli has developed nicely. Would I like him to have to developed quicker? Sure, but he is fine as of now.
Warner was brought in as a stop gap and to make the transition easier for Eli. He came in knowing what he was being brought here for. They Giants got Eli in the draft, and then signed Warner shortly thereafter. He knew what he was coming in for. And it has nothing to do with his last name. You dont get drafted based on your last name. NFL teams dont draft that high based on name alone. This isnt the NBA.
This is the third year Eli has started. The Giants are also on their way to making the playoffs for the third straight year. Eli has nothing to do with that, right? They won the division his first year starting. Nothing to do with that either? Also, can you tell me how they slide every year under Eli? They started the season in 2005 6-2, the second half they were 5-3. Yeah they sure slid then didnt they. In 2006, 6-2 to start, and finished 2-6. Yes that did suck, but there were other factors involved if you really want to get into that.
So if he was Eli Jones he would have went just as high? I don't think so.
As far as the Warner/Eli thing, you may be right as I am not much of a Giants fan, but I remember Warner being pretty pissed about that fiasco. Didn't his wife even make some comments regarding that situation? In my opinion, Warner should have remained the starter for at least two years. That gives Eli time to learn the system on the sideline, and would be more comfortable once he is brought in as the starter. Warner almost passed for 500 yards on Sunday. He clearly still has the skills, so giving up on him just to throw Eli to the wolves was a bit ridiculous.
Yeah, QBs take different amounts of time to develop, but like I asked you earlier, when do you give up and start looking elsewhere? Its obvious year 3 isn't your threshold. Year five? Six?
Sure having the Manning name added some intrigue, but a team is not going to use a number 1 pick, or in the Giants case, trade as much as they did, based on name alone. I saw plenty of him in college to believe that he could be special. I still think he can.
Nah I dont think Warner's wife was pissed when he was benched for Eli. She made a stink though when he was benched for Bulger in St Louis. Yeah he pased for almost 500 yards Sunday, but look at who he was throwing to, versus who he had when he was with the Giants: Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin as your starters in Arizona or Amani Toomer and Ike Hilliard as your starters in New York. Look at his numbers when he was with the Giants. The offense with the Giants was much different than what he has now.
He does have to start showing something, that I agree. But he has shown flashes of greatness in his time as a starter. There have been some amazing performances and amazing comebacks with him at the helm. I can honestly say I never feel out of a game with Eli as my QB. I never felt that way with Warner or Kerry Collins as our QB.
Re: The NFL 2007-08 Season thread
Warner just wasn't given enough time in NY to shine. He had a proven track record and should have been allowed a legit shot at taking that team somewhere. Could they have won an SB with him? Probably not, but considering how murky the NFC has been the past few years, he might have got them there.
I just think the Giants were too quick to pull the trigger on making Eli the starter. Some QBs can come out of the gate swinging, while others need a few years on the bench. I think Eli falls into the latter category.
I have not watched college football in many years. Was Eli in an entirely different type of system in college? Maybe that is part of the problem. Having trouble adapting to a system he is not comfortable with.
- NY Giants82
- Rep: 26
Re: The NFL 2007-08 Season thread
The system was a little different. The system he is in now is a very complicated one. It is based totally on reads and everything has to be nearly perfect for it to work. The OL has to be on the same page as the QB. The QB and the recievers have to see the exact same thing. All the offensive line calls/protection calls are made by the QB. It is very simialr to what Peyton runs. I dont think it is a very good system for a young QB personally. Take Roethlisberger for instance. He had a lot of success right out of the gate. I think much of that lied in being in a very young QB-friendly offense/system. Pittsburgh brought him along at a very good pace and let him rely heavily on his RB. Eli's has been the total opposite. Eli, for instance, in 2005 (his first full year as a starter) threw for the most passes in the league that year, trailing only Favre on total pass attempts. I think thats nuts for a young QB. I think that has been part of his problems.
