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- Communist China
- Rep: 130
Re: GnREvolution Music Madness - Discussion and Results Thread
Giving Estranged credit over Sandman for being a commercial flop is odd. Just because people don't like it doesn't mean it's good.
Re: GnREvolution Music Madness - Discussion and Results Thread
Of course that's not true, but Estranged is really a bad song? Really? So is it worse than My World? Or... Reckless Life? Or Back Off Bitch?
The biggest complaint i've ever heard against Estranged is it's overblown, overindulgent, overproduced. But on a basic music level, i've never seen anyone bring their bagged lunch to the table, to talk turkey about why the song is a bad, or not so good song, beyond overproduction. So it's overproduced. Where's the bad lyrics? Bad vocals? Bad guitar playing? Bad key playing? Bad drums? Bad melody? Etc.
I've heard alot of those same people trash Think About You also, simply 'cause it's not SCOM. Estranged suffers from "it's not NR" syndrome. Doesn't mean that either of them aren't good songs, simply because they didn't hit with mainstream culture.
- Communist China
- Rep: 130
Re: GnREvolution Music Madness - Discussion and Results Thread
In a competition to find the best song being 'not NR' is enough of a complaint to boot Estranged.
The song builds to nothing. That guitar riff is the whole song, once it's played once, it's there. The song has nowhere to go - so 9 minutes and it's peak is about 20 seconds in? If you're going to play for 10 minutes, I expect building tension, and Estranged is the only long Guns tune to fail that test (NR, Breakdown, Civil War, Coma all build up wonderfully).
Of course, if Estranged drifted away that'd be cool too, but it just flatlines energy wise. It's like overblown 80s hair-metal meets jam band.
And I dispute the claim that if released at the time NR was released it'd have done well. Sure, earlier release with fewer dolphins would've helped, but it would have never been what november rain was, and is.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: GnREvolution Music Madness - Discussion and Results Thread
If Estranged would've been released BEFORE November Rain, it would've gotten the same fan fare. It's an amazing song. The problem was, casual audiences had OD'ed on the overindulgence of the Illusions by the time the Estranged came out, and it was kind of given the treatment of "one epic ballad too many". In the eyes of the casual audience, Don't Cry & Rain were enough.
I also think part of the problem is that Estranged's subject matter is much heavier and less easy for the general public to deal with. Like "Don't Cry" is a pretty straight forward love song, and "November Rain" while it has some dark undertones is a very easy song to emphaise with - a love lost etc - but "Estranged" is coming from a much darker place.
While there are no doubt countless people who have felt suicidal and can relate to the confusion and distress in those lyrics as well, there's also a ton of people who arn't emotionally sensitive enough or just arn't wired that way to really ever comprehend being in the kind of position the protaginist of Estranged is.
Which, I think in terms of being a hit to the masses makes it less popular.
It's a brilliant song overall, amazing lyrics, beautiful and haunting guitar passages. I love it. But I do see it as somewhat of an Art Piece - it's not for everyone. It's just not as accessable to the average listener as a more 'mainstream' song. Which doesn't make it bad at all, but it is a certain genre.
Re: GnREvolution Music Madness - Discussion and Results Thread
I think "Estranged" is their best song, but I don't think it ever had the potential to be bigger than "November Rain", it's just not that universally commercial.
- Mikkamakka
- Rep: 217
Re: GnREvolution Music Madness - Discussion and Results Thread
I think u shouldn't have included GNR considering this is a GNR foum and u know they are going to win
Would be interesting to see what other song would win.
I predicted when the tournament started that Estranged would win. What else than a GN'R song could win and since Estranged won all the Survivors at the various sites, it wasn't a wild guess on my part.
- Mikkamakka
- Rep: 217
Re: GnREvolution Music Madness - Discussion and Results Thread
The song builds to nothing. That guitar riff is the whole song, once it's played once, it's there. The song has nowhere to go - so 9 minutes and it's peak is about 20 seconds in? If you're going to play for 10 minutes, I expect building tension, and Estranged is the only long Guns tune to fail that test (NR, Breakdown, Civil War, Coma all build up wonderfully).
I love Estranged, one of my favourite GN'R songs ever, but I agree with you. The song has no structure, coming from nowhere and going to nowhere. (Side note: that's one of the biggest problems with the whole CD album, too.) As much as I love Estranged it's only good and interesting, but random piano playing with huge guitar solos here and there. But I think these are so good that make the song a monster.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: GnREvolution Music Madness - Discussion and Results Thread
I think "Estranged" is their best song, but I don't think it ever had the potential to be bigger than "November Rain", it's just not that universally commercial.
While I enjoy estranged, maybe my tastes are too comerical, as I think it's far from the best overall GNR track. But then that's difficult anyway as you have to seperate the rock type ones from the ballads.
I'd love to see what happens if we did this game without GNR in the future too. 
Re: GnREvolution Music Madness - Discussion and Results Thread
I think Estranged is a masterpiece. It peaks and dips in all the right places and has all the players performing at the peak of their powers. The lyrics are a state of mind, I guess you have to be in that place to really get the song.
From the piano to the drums to bass to the guitars - its all fucking perfectly constructed and pieced together.
Its fucking BS that it wouldnt even be recognised anywhere else, I have seen it in the top 20 VH1 rock songs and it also tops the charts on UK rock channels top 50 whatever run-downs, last I checked those wernt Guns N Roses exclusive channels.
