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- Jimmy Zig Zag Bobiadis
- Rep: 25
Re: The year I learned how to stop caring and love the wait
There will come a time when Tommy begins to question why he is in Guns N Roses. He has dedicated 10 years of his life (almost) to a band that has officially released no original material to date. Instead of touring the world coverings songs which he had no input in creating he could be touring the world playing his own back catalog of Mats material with Westerberg.
Is Tommy honestly that happy playing only 3-5 NewGNR songs per set with the remainder being filled up with Appetite covers? He certainly didn't seem happy throughout the last tour (I specifically recall joining in a chant at Hammersmith, London of "Cheer Up, Tommy!" ~ a chant that Axl started if I'm not mistaken.)
As each day passes Guns N Roses seem to be becoming less relevant in todays market, constantly unable to move forward. The Replacements on the other hand seem to generate an even larger cult status, the kind of status that record labels have been offering to pay large sums of money for (though not quite enough according to Paul). If Axl doesn't stop this stalemate bullshit with the record label next year I see Tommy walking...
With any luck it will walking straight into a Replacements reunion with Paul that will sell-out worldwide (albeit to smaller venues), not to mention pressing an album within months that will receive critical acclaim.
edit part deux : My memory is a little fuzzy from all the dope but didn't Tommy join Guns N Roses in April 1998? When April swings around next year that will be ten years since Tommy joined GNR. Ten years and no album. Hardly something to celebrate in my opinion.
Jeez, I'm being a miserable bastard tonight
Tommy's been in the band for 10 years so I'm sure he's already considered why he's in the band and he's still there! I don't think these guys look at playing the old material as covers, they are playing GnR songs, its part of the gig... they knew this going into it. Honestly, they could continue to keep touring on the old material and I wouldn't be the least bit disappointed as they've put on the best shows I've ever seen in my life. With that said, I'm sure the album situation is frustrating for everyone in the band.
- Mikkamakka
- Rep: 217
Re: The year I learned how to stop caring and love the wait
I guess that Tommy and Robin has a lot to think about. It's something like Game Theory. You put a lot of effort, energy and creativity into this project. You have a chance to be well-known, well-respected and rich if it'll be successful. On the other hand there is a significant chance that it'll never get released or get released too late, and they'll lose everything they put into this project, and they'll be too old to have a career.
But... if they leave, they lose every chance to succeed with GN'R. When should you leave? When can you realize that it's over? Axl's been feeding them with his 'it'll come out soon' bullshit for years. I'm sure none of them believes in Axl's promises and plans anymore. (BTW it's a big problem in a band.) But as I see things and (probably) they see things Tommy and Robin realized that they still don't have better chance than GN'R, so they are waiting. As soon as something good pops up, they'll leave.
Re: The year I learned how to stop caring and love the wait
I don't think these guys look at playing the old material as covers, they are playing GnR songs, its part of the gig... they knew this going into it.
I disagree. These guys were fed a ton of crap, especially during the first half of this wait. This wasn't supposed to be a nostalgia band. It was supposed to be a fresh start, a new beginning. A different era. I'm sure they figured they would play a few classics here and there, but it wasn't supposed to be like this. Any Axl interview from 1999-02 will confirm this. He was gonna bring us along into a new era for the band.
Instead of all the things Axl talked about doing since mentioning Chinese Democracy in 1999, he has just smothered his band with something they didn't create. Whatever vision this project had when these guys jumped on board clearly doesn't exist anymore. Probably the only thing keeping them there is the time invested in the project, but eventually even that wont be enough to make them stick around.
All these guys are eventually going to come to a fork in the road. They're all in their late 30's/late 40's, and at some point they are going to want to actually do something while they are still able to be productive.
Re: The year I learned how to stop caring and love the wait
This wasn't supposed to be a nostalgia band.
'Tis true.
What really irks me is how things ultimately turned out for Robin. He was the NIN lead guitarist in '94-95, Cirque de Soleil musical director '96-97, worked with Axl on CD mk. 1 in '97-99, and toured again with NIN in '99-00. While an impressive roster for the time when NIN had just become Big and CD still had the aura of mysticism surrounding it, Robin was left without a crowning achievement. He was supposed to come back to GNR in late '00 for a June '01 album release. GNR could've capitalized on the myth and Robin would've once again been there, on stage with one of the biggest bands in the world.
Paul Tobias was the lucky one. He played four live shows with the ultimate lineup and still managed to quit while he was ahead. Granted, he never had much of a professional career to begin with, but to his credit, Paul could've kept receiving the checks. He could've hung around with the likes of Robin, Tommy and Bucket, tour the world with them and reap the benefits of being in the right place at the right time. While Paul's resignation was said to be about touring issues, why the hell didn't he quit before the summer, when Axl was inches away from unvealing CD and taking on a European tour? While dates were shuffled to December (with a South American leg mentioned by Beta to take place in early '02), Paul was still hanging around.
If you look at it that way, the departure of Paul comes across like a guilt exclusion. The band was simply too good on every other area for him to stick around. Whether it was Axl or Paul himself who would've arrived to this conclusion we may never know. But there's one thing we will know; If anyone quits the band next year, the curse of Paul Tobias (resignation in every two years, starting from '02) is still going strong. Robin, Tommy or Pitman? Who'll stand up and walk out the door next?
Re: The year I learned how to stop caring and love the wait
It's never really that simple.
We're fast approaching the one-year anniversary of Axl's open letter, in which he announced the tentative release date of March 6th, 07 for CD. He mentioned minor, minor additions were left to be made, while Merck in a subsequent open response revealed a deal would still have to be with the label. Merck also said they'd "needed the money [from the European & US tours] to be able to complete the album and keep the band alive"; the project had been self-financed for several years now, and wasn't about to change at the last minute. "The record company refused to conclude the renegotiation until we were ready to hand over the finished album and refused to prepare a marketing campaign or commission video treatments until they had it in their hands."
One year later, there is no album out. It's said to be finished but Universal wasn't about to strike a deal last year before Axl had delivered. The reasoning that follows now is "no album this year, no new deal with the label, no album turned over to the label".
The album may be finished, you say. Damn straight, could be. Last we heard was in 02/22, when Del James descended from the mountain where the fire hasn't ceased to burn in well over a decade. Recording was completed, and the band had begun the mixing process. Baz had integrated himself into the recordings seamlessly and will have his presence felt. In other words, Axl heard him sing a chorus for Sorry after putting out his open letter and realized he could chalk it under those minor additions.
That's one of those things that stand up when looking at the CD saga. More than once, Axl's taken fancy of something and started to figure out how to implement it on his record(s), in atleast one of the songs. This I Love had a friggin harp added to it when the song was over twelve years old; not to mention the oft-rumored Prostitute which's been described as a hard-hitting rock track, despite having everything aside the kitchen sink crammed in due to the modest orchestration by Paul Buckmaster (ten 1st Violins, eight 2nd Violins, six violas, and eight cellos).
They also toured this past year. Mexico, Australia, New Zealand and Japan (with apologies to South Africa); all very easy markets, where the enthusiasm for GNR today equals if not surpasses that of Europe. Merck said the touring money was needed when the label refused to budge. No doubt the album wasn't turned over by the summer, as touring without the album in those markets is best explained by the overall lack of funds. In that case, I hope Axl arranged his extravagant afterparties out of his own pocket instead of blowing some hard-earned dime from the band's war chest.
Axl has quite obviously put his own money into the project eversince February 2004. By now, he probably realized it's not a very healthy investment and by touring, he could get back the money he'd invested on top of Universal's $13 million. Even with royalty checks coming in, it's hard to believe Axl could sustain both the financing and his standard of living for years on without getting a bit worried. There are a few choices to resolve the matter; complete CD as well as possible with the money you're currrently willing to invest (which could mean no Baz sessions, btw) and crawl back to Universal - or tour, forget label money, cover your past expenses and perhaps even generate some surplus. In this digital day and age, touring already appears to be the main source of revenue of many artists. What a pioneer spirit Axl would thus be - generate money by touring and pour it all down to an album which a great many people will download, thus stealing you from the money you invested in the first place.
The problem only comes to play if Universal still takes as hard a stance as Merck suggested. No deal with Axl before CD means Axl could continue to negotiate with them and simultaneously finalize his album as long as he'd like, but they wouldn't give a damn before he'd actually turn it over. Every time he goes on tour, he buys more time. Every time the fanbase cares less. One might compare the situation to the Halloween parties he tends to host in Malibu.
Axl throws a costume party every Halloween for friends and their families. Enormous pumpkins ring the swimming pool, and spider webs hang in the trees. Specially built mazes and forts rattle with squealing children. Almost as excited as a child, Axl himself has been known to dash around and toy with every attraction. One past guest gets the impression that Axl is trying to re-create his own childhood, albeit one better than his actually was. The Halloween scene in the past few years hasn't been what it once was. "His parties have been getting smaller and smaller," recalls one recent guest. "The ever-shrinking universe." - RS, 2000
Of course, there's an exit. Various ("final") mixes of several songs do exist; the catch-22 is that they are behind a lock and key due to Axl's (n)ongoing negotiations with the label. If you'd ask the band, the response would be that there are no "final mixes", because those'd be the ones that would eventually be featured on the album. But then there are these "work-in-progress final mixes", which are an excellent way to measure the public interest regarding the project, and the only way imaginable to shift the pressure back to the label's end. "Release it before it all leaks, along with your $13 million."
If, by now, Axl has a trilogy of discs being readied, he has a good amount of potential tracks that might trickle out in the times to come. Those three tracks on Angel Down were nothing if not a short run of leaking Sorry. As long as the stalemate persists, Axl needs to remind everybody of what they're waiting for in the first place. That's the only real way to keep the audience on his side, and he does need to gather some major outside interest if he'd want to impress Universal.
Next year, the stakes get even higher as Axl's not getting any younger. 46 in less than two months, man. Isn't it time to take the stage again and say just one word?
"Sorry."
Great post sic. A+.
Re: The year I learned how to stop caring and love the wait
few things are more annyoing that a pitty party for a bunch of grownup men who made their own decision and entered into to a contract that has, to date, offered them lots of money and acclaim while still offering the oppurtunity to do their solo work in down times. those poor babies.
Re: The year I learned how to stop caring and love the wait
Tommy is much more successful now than he ever was with the Mats. Financially, he didn't make a dime from them. Artistically, he is probably frustrated. But in the end, he is a grown man who has to make a living.:ummm:
