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- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Slash and Duff working on CD II according to MSL
Listening to CD today, pitman is all over that bitch with over production that is simply not needed and at times silly.
I remember when the album came out I liked a lot of these touches compared to the demos as at first I thought it was helping to add to a "finished" sound. However, as i've adapted to these versions of the tracks I've come around to your type of view - I love all the orchestration from Marco Beltrami and Paul Buckmaster - however most of the other synth type stuff seems redundant. At times it feels a lot of this stuff is added because of lack of a really solid guitar melody - there's a lot of little guitar shred fills and tricks and gimmicks - but not really much you'd hum in the shower.
If I could re-do the production the things I think would help it immensely are:
1. More cohesive guitar parts. The rhythm guitars are heavily edited together and it shows. Different tones, different ambiences, obviously dozens of performances - some clearly date from alternative versions of the songs that were in different styles! Some of this cut and pasting is good for establishing a demo and songwriting - but then I would have recorded start-to-finish takes of the songs - like how they were performed live in 06 and 09 - rather than cutting the first two chords in the progression played on a telecaster in 1999, with the third chord played on a strat in 2004 in a different room.
2. Lose the drum machines. If there's one thing that makes the album sound amateurish it's the 8-bit sounding drum sounds in the background. It's nice when the real drums kick in over the top at times. Good example is IRS - the drums at the start over the soft bit would be better to not exist and then the drums could kick in when the physical drums do. These pollute almost every song and have the sound of seeing the pencil outlines on a fully painted drawing. Even if those beats were instrumental to the writing phase...they served their purpose. Lose them. It sounds like someone just forgot to mute the scratch tracks. In general the drumming on CD is far less effective than on UYI or AFD - there's a reason for this - Brain and Frank are neutered by the presence of the digital crap.
Re: Slash and Duff working on CD II according to MSL
I really liked Going Down, aside the cut n paste guitar solo. Sounds a lot more organic than most of CD.
Other than the fact it feels like a VGH track...this is the main reason I believe it was meant to be but pulled at the last second..maybe because Axl/GNR didn't want their first song in eons to be on a solo project...etc. It sounds nothing like anything we've heard from the CD sessions and I'm not talking about its quality. Like you said...other than Ron's addition....it has not been put together like a damn puzzle. It sounds like they went in there...boom...whipped it up in three shakes of a lamb's tail.
I might be in the minority, but actually I prefer Ray Thomas Bakers work more than Beavens on CD.
Wow. If true, why do you complain about all the countless layers on the tracks? He is the reason for that....and the continuous delays. As a nutswinger of the 2000-02 era, seems like you'd be steamed at how Baker approached the project.
I remember OMG wasn't well received by most but I think those lyrics are awesome, and the venomous way Axl delivers it all
I vividly remember hearing OMG for the first time on the radio, being really excited that GNR was back, and then thinking " OMG, what just happened?" It seemed like such a mess.
Here's one of the main problems with OMG and its not the song....its how Axl/GNR/Uni handled the reaction to it and it was a sign of many things to come. Axl promoted it(remember the thesis) and when it went over like a walrus turd served during Thanksgiving dinner.....the excuses started coming...."It's just a demo..."
Who was complaining about the song? Fanboys/girls on newsgroups....which shows even back then they were concentrating too much on the hardcore forum bubble. In reality it was just one song on a soundtrack in a movie very few people cared about. Most who bought the soundtrack likely bought it for Korn, Eminem, Everlast,etc.
OMG didn't need to send the project into a tailspin. They overreacted to its reception. 1999 also saw Live Era and of course Big Daddy. I've also wondered how much of an impact This I Love being rejected for that film had on everything.
I wish OMG had never been released and instead of that, CITR winds up being put on a soundtrack which would have been great timing as May had been talking about his work with GNR at the time(positively). It might have changed the course of where it was heading.
Well, the ones I can make out are pretty awesome, yes. I still have no idea what he's singing for half the song.
11day...we have a section here up above that has every GNR song listed including lyrics....
http://www.gnrevolution.com/song.php?id=3034
TWAT is perfect. The only thing over produced on CD is the amount of guitars going at any given time that buries Chris's work. If you listen to the 99 demos of TWAT and IRS Chris's work is clear and phenomenal.
Tommy's bass is buried on CD. He got the Jason Newstead treatment on the album...and yeah some of Pitman's work is buried too(the title track especially). I agree with SG on some of the album's intros....not needed at all and I don't care if Axl, Pitman, or Pee Wee Herman created them. Riad intro ok I suppose(even if they7 ripped it off) and I like the addition of the crowd noise and IMO its a jab at fans who pissed and moaned about the live bootlegs of it for years. First thing I thought of when hearing that. The intro on the title track is good and bad. It's a bit creepy, foreboding, whispers, and of course that killer scream letting you know he's back.....but it wasn't needed. As a single it was dead and amazing it even charted. It would be white noise on the radio and most would change the channel before you even hear Axl.
I always thought the solo from Sorry was a direct rip of the Floyd.
I'm in the group that think Bucket's work on Sorry and his TWAT outro are a tribute to Slash..
I also love his work on If the World. When it leaked some fans swore up and down it was Finck but Bucket fans like me and Bri could tell it was Bucket and I had a feeling he was "out-Fincking" Finck. Its like he took Finck's style to a level only Bucket can take it.
If you listen to the 99 demos of TWAT and IRS
I can go the rest of my life without hearing either of those. If there's anyone out there who doubts the need for Bucket on this project need look no further than that 99 version of IRS. Bucket turned chickenshit into chicken salad.
Re: Slash and Duff working on CD II according to MSL
misterID wrote:Smoking Guns wrote:Listening to CD today, pitman is all over that bitch with over production that is simply not needed and at times silly. Into to Twat is one of those times. Sounds like a jungle scene with a huge drums and a parrot in the tree. Anyway listening to the Solo, Slash could play an Anastasia style solo there and it would fit perfectly.
Sorry, holy fuck, as we all know that is about Slash, but what I find more crazy is that Bucket plays pretty much the Slash style to a T. This had to be intentional. Not sure if Axl told him to but that is basically a Slash solo.
Riad, this could be a real rocker with stripped down production and Slash and Duff in it.
There are no drum parts Sorum couldn't nail honestly.
I have no idea what you're talking about. TWAT is perfect. The only thing over produced on CD is the amount of guitars going at any given time that buries Chris's work. If you listen to the 99 demos of TWAT and IRS Chris's work is clear and phenomenal. And a lot of that in the intro to TWAT could be Axl.
Sorry is a perfect Bucket song. He doesn't just shred. Anastasia... Ugh.
I still like the album version of Twat. And I love those solos. Was just saying Slash could do them justice, no doubt. The Anastasia solo is pretty damn good, not sure why you dislike it. I like the Sorry guitar solo too.
After Slash's first Solo album everything felt really generic, and I don't know if that was Myles, his songwriting partners or production, and thats why I didn't like Anastasia. It was a ball of everything I hated about his solo work put into a song. I think his first solo album was good, musically, but the wreak link were the singers. I don't think it's a coincidence that he wrote those songs by himself and submitted them to people, and the records that followed were collaborations with Myles and his backing band. I think that's my issue with Slash, it's who he surrounds himself with.
My absolute favorite Slash moment was his cover of "Hey Joe" with Steve Winwood. I swear I want an album with those two.
Re: Slash and Duff working on CD II according to MSL
He got the Jason Newstead treatment on the album...and yeah some of Pitman's work is buried too(the title track especially). salad.
Though Tommy's Bass is pretty good and it's a shame it's buried under the guitars (obviously Bumblefoot). Pitman actually plays bass on the album on If the World/Madagascar as well (not just sub-bass that people bring up as a dig despite that they can't hear it). Tommy isn't even listed as playing on If the World.
Has Andy Wallace ever commented post release on what ended up happening with this?
Even though I like the album version of "There Was A Time" the only addition I don't like apart from the unnecessary extra guitar is that what someone once called the "cookie monster" in the background during the chorus.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: Slash and Duff working on CD II according to MSL
Smoking Guns wrote:misterID wrote:I have no idea what you're talking about. TWAT is perfect. The only thing over produced on CD is the amount of guitars going at any given time that buries Chris's work. If you listen to the 99 demos of TWAT and IRS Chris's work is clear and phenomenal. And a lot of that in the intro to TWAT could be Axl.
Sorry is a perfect Bucket song. He doesn't just shred. Anastasia... Ugh.
I still like the album version of Twat. And I love those solos. Was just saying Slash could do them justice, no doubt. The Anastasia solo is pretty damn good, not sure why you dislike it. I like the Sorry guitar solo too.
My absolute favorite Slash moment was his cover of "Hey Joe" with Steve Winwood. I swear I want an album with those two.
One of his most iconic moment ever.
- Major Mayhem
- Rep: 6
Re: Slash and Duff working on CD II according to MSL
Is there a thread where all the leaks are contained in chronological order?
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Slash and Duff working on CD II according to MSL
My problem with the drumming is that the very first drum hit on "Right Next Door to Hell" sounds better than the entirety of the drumming on Chinese Democracy.
I think CD has some of Axl's best vocals and lyrics. However the songs would be so much more interesting without a computer and with a cohesive 5 piece band just playing the melodies.
- Major Mayhem
- Rep: 6
Re: Slash and Duff working on CD II according to MSL
My problem with the drumming is that the very first drum hit on "Right Next Door to Hell" sounds better than the entirety of the drumming on Chinese Democracy.
I think CD has some of Axl's best vocals and lyrics. However the songs would be so much more interesting without a computer and with a cohesive 5 piece band just playing the melodies.
I agree. My only real complaint, and not really a complaint, but a wish, is that the drums were louder on CD.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Slash and Duff working on CD II according to MSL
After Slash's first Solo album everything felt really generic, and I don't know if that was Myles,
I think it is mostly Myles.
The actual guitar riffs are straight up rockers that could have been on UYI.
I think they need an Axl to add more dynamic lyrics, and maybe even a bit of structural change as I'll agree they are a little 'verse, chorus, verse' at times. I see them as awesome templates for GNR songs though - if you'd had the others to add their magic too.
I didn't like Anastasia. It was a ball of everything I hated about his solo work put into a song.
To me Anastasia is the stand-out track that's not identical to the others. Same with Wicked Stone on his next album - there's something about those two tracks that's superior to the others.
The second half of the song live is amazing:
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: Slash and Duff working on CD II according to MSL
monkeychow wrote:My problem with the drumming is that the very first drum hit on "Right Next Door to Hell" sounds better than the entirety of the drumming on Chinese Democracy.
I think CD has some of Axl's best vocals and lyrics. However the songs would be so much more interesting without a computer and with a cohesive 5 piece band just playing the melodies.
I agree. My only real complaint, and not really a complaint, but a wish, is that the drums were louder on CD.
Yep. The album sounds dated really. The drums etc sound so fucking sterile. The music does breathe or have any live to it.
