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#131 Guns N' Roses » Chinese Whispers - The Secret History of the New Studio Album » 868 weeks ago
- sic.
- Replies: 96
Whatever can be said of Chinese Democracy, the man himself spoke the greatest truth of them all.
To say the making of this album has been an unbearably long and incomprehensible journey would be an understatement. - W. Axl Rose
The lofty goal of Chinese Whispers is to document this journey as well as possible with whatever factual information available. This has meant spending long hours going through various articles, message board posts and other tidbits to place every other comment into proper context; what year were the people interviewed involved, and how do their opinions correspond with the stage at which both the band and the album were at that point.
While it tries hard to provide answers, it does not attempt to serve as the absolute truth on all things GNR following the Use Your Illusion world tour. What it does offer, however, are interesting snapshots in time which illustrate Axl and his crew laboring over a myriad of songs with various producers, hoping to complete their work to a satisfying degree, only to find release plans foiled time and again for reasons that often remain undisclosed to this day.
It is a tale of madness, obsession and creative endeavor of gigantic proportions. While the light in which the core players are represented may not always be flattering towards them, one thing is certain: everyone involved tried very hard to make the best album possible, despite almost unsurmountable pressure from the record company, the music press and most importantly, the long-suffering fanbase.
At the end of the day, the music will speak for itself. However, as the story behind the music has no equal in the history of rock, Chinese Whispers will hopefully provide with some entertainment value while waiting for that Best Buy exclusive and Axl Rose's own, unabridged account of what truly happened.
This is not the truth.
This is the story as we know it so far.
Click any link for the events of the said year.
#132 Re: Guns N' Roses » Chinese Democracy Liner Note Discussions *EXTREME SPOILERS* » 868 weeks ago
Big surprise is Dizzy's hefty contributions. No one expected that.
*cough*bullshit*cough*
#133 Re: Guns N' Roses » Moved due to album details revealed. » 869 weeks ago
sic. wrote:Axlin08 wrote:I wonder who the mysterious contributor is? Paul? Izzy?
Mr. Dizzy Reed.
Seriously.
Why would that be mysterious? He's been a fuckin' bandmember since 1990, and both Axl & Chris both have talked before about Dizzy's contributions to the album.
It's not a shock.
Many people have downplayed the amount of work Dizzy and Paul Huge put into the project over the years. Those two guys came with most song structures, ideas upon which multiple instrumental layers were thrown. In the older songs, the core writing was split between Axl (and his piano compositions) and Paul & Dizzy.
Pitman wrote a lot as well, as we know by now. And that's the same guy who was the butt-end of numerous jokes made about the new band. Axl's trustee, the guy who's kept tinkering with the layers to the Huge/Reed songs, who'd inherited the Billy Howerdel spot.
The guys you might expect to have written songs (as opposed to merely their own parts) haven't actually done that much in the big picture; Robin should get some credits, as well as Bucket, but I have a feeling they won't be the main writers.
Wouldn't be surprised if main engineer Caram Constanzo will keep getting credited in every other song as well.
#134 Re: Guns N' Roses » So what's going to happen to the forums once CD drops... » 869 weeks ago
If we could see tomorrow
What of your plans
It is said of the original lineup of the band that poverty brought them together and helped them bond with each other. When they hit paydirt, things just weren't the same anymore. They just lost the sense of camaraderie, which is what often happens in relationships. Hearts grow out of the old framework and people either move on or remain dwelling in the past, yet never I've met a person not feeling even the slightest sting of fuzzy nostalgia and old warmth for the times they once had with people who've ceased to exist as the personalities they were back then.
The same with us, really. The common bond we all have here is the anticipation of the mythical album. For years now, we've been the last line of defense; everyone else had given up, if not hope, than at least the wait. We've been the ones who've endlessly debated, analyzed and speculated every other rumor, interview, leaked track, what have you. Now this thing is gearing up again, and while we all may experience a degree of relief and satisfaction, I think it's safe to assume I'm not alone in feeling that we're on the brink of losing something precious to the world by far and wide, as the mythical album will soon enter global consciousness and mass-media consumption.
I know the things you wanted
They're not what you have
With all the people talkin' it's drivin' you mad
When everyone else gave up, CD begun yet another phase in its curious half-life as a music history curiosity. It got into an even greater self-censoring secret, an almost esoteric phenomena available only to those who'd care. We all cared, perhaps sometimes more than we should've, and eventually, we were rewarded. We got the first dips on everything, we were all there when the leaks happened; like kids in a candy store, the Great Leak Night is one of my most treasured memories of GNREvo. It was just so much fun to log in, check out the chat room and find all my online friends and rivals unified behind the single fact that this was the night our collective hearts skipped a beat.
Of course, we had to adjust to a lot of things. Prostitute was the first trial by fire for many of us on the road to a release. That track'd been around for over a decade, doing rounds in Axl's studio, with a handful of comments by the press and the studio crew building it into the song that'd encompass both CD and Axl's talent, direction and future success. The baggage was simply too great for any track to endure, as they could exist as all things to all people solely under the pretext of never being heard in public. It was a well-earned slap in the face to come to terms with what Prostitute actually was and what it stood for, as it was not our track to begin with.
However, the general gut reaction to the idea of Song #2 being Prostitute speaks volumes of how the gears are already shifting in our midst. Chinese Democracy is about to become reality and the dream album will die at the minute the first units are sold.
I thought I could live in your world
As years all went by
With all the voices I've heard
Something has died
What now remains is for us to see this thing through and come to terms with the fact that the myth is now a Best Buy exclusive. Over the years, CD has received numerous tags, definitions and punchlines, yet I hope I'm not out of my depth to say it also represents (in varying amounts) all the things many of us have sought in life, the dreams unfulfilled. Things we wait on for, things that'll brighten our day and make our plight more bearable. For Axl, it may be just an album. But seriously, who here in their right mind can say that after all these years, for them, CD has always 'just an album'?
You don't wait for 'just' an album for so long. You don't spend all this time delving the matter for 'just' an album. In the 21st Century pop culture mythology, CD represents the return of the conquering hero, the man who once was king. Ulysses, who'd been away for 20 years, returns to his home isle of Ithaca and re-establishes his kingdom which had fallen into astray, killing the unwanted suitors and claiming his loyal wife Penelope as his rightful spouse. In mythological terms, I believe that's the core of CD's lure. We bought into the stories long ago about Axl coming back and setting the record straight (forgive the pun), and clung to it like mad. And frankly, I think the CD saga makes for a pretty good story on its own.
But now, as Ulysses sheds the disguise of the beggar, we're about to see that the outcome is nothing we've ever hoped for. What will come of the band and the album now is anyone's guess. The only certainty is that we will now have to learn to live with the fact that the king is finally out there, doing battle against the suitors of his fair lady, and ultimately, there's very little the few disgruntled loyalists can do to aid his cause in the grand scheme of things. This is one battle Axl needs to win on his own - otherwise, he could never reclaim the imaginary mantle again.
And when you're in need of someone
My heart won't deny you
So many seem so lonely
With no one left to cry to baby
Again, where does this leave us? Will we find our camaraderie shattered beyond repair, will the smart ones jump ship in the first moments of crisis, will the rest remain maintaining an illusion of yesteryear, distancing from one another each day?
Honestly, I can't say. While I've personally invested a great deal of personal spare time to the forums and GNREvo in particular, I've never let James go before acknowledging the fact that I'll be around 'as long as it's fun'. I think most of us are here for the same reason. When/if it gets tedious, when something fun turns into a chore or an obligation, that's the day you quit. On a hindsight, that may sound a bit harsh, but the fact is that no-one's getting much anything else out of this than a sense of belonging into a community which is greater than the sum of its parts. If you grow out of it, it's best for everyone to take the high road and explore other avenues in life. I tend to attribute that to not only GNREvo, but other parts of my life as well. And this forum really is a part of my life, no matter how pathetic it may sound to people more insecure than yours truly.
Maybe, just maybe, we're about to experience a coming to age as a community. No more do we need to cite Ulysses, as we'll now have the opportunity to try being a little bit more normal fans. People who go to the gig in a city near them, buy the latest album, see the new video, read yet another promotional interview, etc. Maybe we'll manage to reassess our relationship to Uncle Axl.
Some people will bail out, some newcomers will stick. What the number of regulars will eventually be, I won't try guessing. But I think, as the long day closes, the community will still stand tall.
Except for one thing.
Nothing will ever be the same again.
#135 Re: Guns N' Roses » Moved due to album details revealed. » 869 weeks ago
I wonder who the mysterious contributor is? Paul? Izzy?
Mr. Dizzy Reed.
Seriously.
#136 Re: Guns N' Roses » (OLD NEWS!)The Limewire Leaks Discussion » 869 weeks ago
I believe it was one of the engineers who said it was a simple piano ballad (which it is). James gets confused sometimes.:lol:
Ah, so he meant Howard Karp.
For the record, I think Karp at least half-liked the song (piano-only version).
I wonder if Axl is the pianist on "This I Love".
I have a gut feeling saying he is.
#137 Re: Guns N' Roses » How many stayed strong? » 869 weeks ago
I listened to IRS as the original crappy leak three-four years ago.
Then the '06 leaks came around and I realized how desperate it was.
Then I got the '08 unofficially mastered leaks and noticed how proper mixing/mastering makes all the difference in the world. The '06 leaks started to feel muddled and completely aghasting.
Now I'm 3,5 weeks shy of getting final versions of Sorry, Scraped and This I Love. Why should I settle for second-best once more?
#138 Re: Guns N' Roses » (OLD NEWS!)The Limewire Leaks Discussion » 869 weeks ago
Ezrin was spot on with this track. It wants to be a November Rain but it falls short. Not even close to the 'heaviest' thing he's done, but obviously the track is held up to that standard by him for personal reasons.
Um, what'd I miss?
When has Bob Ezrin commented This I Love?
#139 Re: Guns N' Roses » Chinese Democracy First Tour Dates (FAKE) » 869 weeks ago
Thanks James,
It seems NIN is taking a break from touring from mid-December to late February. Robin - if he so chooses - can jump ship at that point.
Let's be honest...the only person required to show up is Axl Rose.
True that, but I'd hate to see Finck go with the finish line in sight.
If we're lucky, Robin's doing the '99 routine again; leaving while the album was almost 'done', touring with NIN and returning just in time to do RIR3.
#140 Re: Guns N' Roses » Chinese Democracy First Tour Dates (FAKE) » 869 weeks ago
I wouldn't trust any tour dates prior to 12/14/08.
For the record, neither MTS Centre or Big Sandy have confirmed those dates on their official websites, although both are available.
However: Huntington date
Will have to keep an eye on NIN in the following month.
Our Canadian members could just call MTS Centre to see if there's a date booked.