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#671 Re: Management » An STP Section » 906 weeks ago

We don't have a Jizzy Pearl section, either.

He was in a band with a founding GNR member and is now on tour with a current member.

#672 Re: The Sunset Strip » Favorite foreign films » 906 weeks ago

I remember Wishing Stairs. A terribly underwhelming film.


Been watching Kurosawa lately. Saw Seven Samurai and Ran only a few days apart. For the uninitiated, Seven Samurai is a textbook example on how to do a siege film. A village consisting of feeble peasants gain knowledge of a ensuing attack by travelling bandits and hire seven swordsmen for their protection. That's the story in a nutshell, but don't let the simplicity fool you - Seven Samurai pushes all the rights buttons at all the right times. While the deceptively easygoing first half of an over three-hour film consists of the formation of the group and establishing their individual personalities and interpersonal relationships, the latter half is in contrast as gripping and relentless, as Kurosawa stages his action scenes like a master craftsman. Kurosawa also realized how significant it is to lighten up the story with minor humorous occurences every now and then, mostly supplied by the slightly buffoonish Kikuchiyo (Toshiro Mifune in his most memorable role), either by fault or his knack for comedy.

The party's personalities would later re-emerge in various genre films, as they round up a colorful group dymanic. There's the sage old leader Kambei (Takashi Shimura), his reliable right-hand man Shichiroji (Daisuke Kato), Kambei's first lieutenant Gorobei (Yoshio Inaba), the cheerful good old boy Heihachi (Minoru Chiaki), Katsushiro, the young man anxious to prove his worth in battle (Isao Kimura), the taciturn but unsurpassably deadly Kuyzo (Seiji Miyaguchi), and the aforementioned Kikuchiyo, who'll rise from a rejected laughing stock into a brave warrior worthy of his peers.

Originally released in 1954, it was picked up and remade stateside by John Sturges as The Magnificient Seven in 1960. The remake only further proves the mastery of Kurosawa's original, as the themes explored in detail in Seven Samurai (such as the forever remaining rift between those who apply force and those who yield underneath it) can be said to be universal in nature, not to mention the screenplay itself reflects some of the basic ideas of dramaturgy, as it can be switched around into American gunslingers in a pueblo with relative ease. The remake, however, fails to capture the operatic nature of Kurosawa's masterpiece. Others, including Kurosawa himself, have tried, with mixed results.

I personally consider Ran (1985), his King Lear-adaptation set in feudal Japan, ultimately superior to Seven Samurai in many ways. As Seven Samurai has steadily followed in the coat-tails of Citizen Kane on every other 'Greatest Film Ever Made' list for the past 40 years, this should come as no small compliment.

#673 Re: Guns N' Roses » The last minutes in Philly » 906 weeks ago

madagas wrote:

Sic, I tend to believe Axl was paid a big advance on the tour (like Geffen did on the next Gnr record), then once things didn't go as planned CC tried to strong arm Axl and ask for some money back. Axl got pissed, said fu, CC said fu back and they cancelled it. You don't just not show up for a sold out show.

Definetly, definetly. MSG was the zenith of the '02 tour. The band was gelling and they'd just began getting great reviews. A sold-out show in Philly with a solid performance would've turned heads, as Axl could've proved the past show wasn't a fluke.

And then there was this:

GUNS '˜N' ROSES TO ATTEMPT WORLD RECORD IN PHILADELPHIA

Guns '˜n' Roses will attempt to enter the Guinness Book of World Records in Philadelphia, PA, when they become only the second act to play back-to-back shows at the First Union Center (December 6) and trek 758-feet, nine-and-a-half inches across the parking lot to the neighboring First Union Spectrum (December 8). Tickets for the newly added second date go on sale on Saturday, November 16 at 10 a.m. - 11/11/02


More mighty fine publicity to take advantage of. Even after the riot, people were still expecting good things from Axl. MSG had sold out, with Boston, Philly and Chicago all selling over 11,000 tickets well in advance. By the way, how many remember they were lined up to play in Col. Sanders' neighborhood? Not Louisville, but Lexington, anyway. There was a date chalked up for 11/22/02, which is still visible in the early press releases.

I can understand why Axl might've wanted to start his tour in smaller, more out of the way places like Fargo in order to have the band grow their tour legs and ease off the edges, so that they'd peaked in front of the mass audiences. That particular lineup had played only six shows so far, five of them on festivals in very friendly markets. While a good way to warm up, it's still hardly sufficient to make it a routine. I can imagine (and this comes from experience) that when the band arrived to do a show after a long hiatus with new crew personell/band members, there's a whole of technical issues that suddenly become a big deal, a lot of things that need to be ironed out in a live setting. Unless you do a rehearsal in a live venue (like bands such as NIN have done in the past), you'll have to wait until the day of the first show to really work out the bugs in the system.

But MSG stood as proof that Axl's mic problems and similar issues had by then been taken care of to a satisfiable degree. The band finally had everything going for them, with several shows still lined up in East Coast metropolitans. If Axl had gotten depressed over how the tour was going, you'd think he would've done so a whole lot earlier.


This is why CC throwing a wrench into it seems so plausible. And that was a result of poor planning, over-confidence in the AFD lineup (on behalf of the promoters) and quite simply, greed. If Axl truly had a claim in his contract to get over $400k per show, it just goes on to show how ClearChannel was duped (by their own money-hungry attitude, or the snakeoil salesmen Mercuriadis and Goldstein) into signing on to the tour.

Of course Axl's not the innocent one here. At times during the tour he seemed completely off his trolley, willing to do live interviews only if the pre-presented questions would steer away from topics such as Slash, showing up late, ranting on stage against the very former band mates whom he'd little before boasted to have gotten over... And Vancouver was just embarrassing. If the whole band would've been en route and would've been delayed by bad weather, that's one thing. But with the band actually on the venue, celebrating Robin's birthday, one has to wonder whether first show jitters took the better of Axl, making him to postpone his flight to the last possible minute.

That's something Axl still apparently does. I understand he arrived to Helsinki (07/05/06) from London via helicopter, while everyone (incl. me) were already waiting for him in a sold-out arena. So it might've been bad weather combined with just general tardiness that made Vancouver end the way it did.


Neemo wrote:

if axl stayed home cuz he was mad at the promoter...its still not right...all those people were excited to see that gig

Well, that's Axl for you. Face it, the man can be pretty headstrong in such a situation. During the UYI tour, fits like that were unfortunately rather common. Not to mention he's done with Universal numerous times.

Axl's one of those guys who often seem to go on with emotion rather than reason. I've met similar types in the music world, they can be pretty aggravating to work with.

#674 Re: Guns N' Roses » The last minutes in Philly » 906 weeks ago

This is something I picked up from HTGTH:

It has been said that Clear Channel gave Axl 1 million dollars prior to the tour as a pre-tour bonus.  After the Vancouver riot and repeated late arrivals on stage, Clear Channel insisted that Axl return the million as insurance that he would "behave" for the remainder of the tour.

If Axl did not comply, CC threatened to pull the plug on the tour.  Axl refused and stayed in his NYC hotel room watching a basketball game as a helicopter sat atop the hotel waiting to wisk him away to Philly.  The other band members were in the building in Philly waiting for Axl to show.

Clear Channel banked on Axl giving in as they allowed the opening acts to take the stage in Philly.  Axl was only an hour away via a helicopter ride.  Clear Channel knew days in advance that they were gonna try and strong arm Axl.  They hired people to walk around the arena and sell non-refundable $10.00 tickets to the second show that was to occur the second night in Philly.  CC took advantage of fans knowing that the second concert would not go on as planned.


I remember hearing the story other way around; CC asking for a $1M insurance deposit from Axl for each show. Giving the money to him as an advance and then asking for it back is certainly more plausible. Axl was indeed in NY with a helicopter ready, while the band was in Philly, Center City Ritz-Carlton to be exact. If CC knew days in advance they'd take strong measures against Axl, the ticket sales hadn't lived up to their expectations so far. They hadn't; the average gross for the first 11 shows was around $340,000.

Again, it's like madagas said. CC didn't exactly start off by making fortunes with GNR, on the contrary, they'd been losing money for three weeks straight already and Axl's $1M would've now been money they considered he owed them. That's really the best explanation I've heard for the cancellation so far, with CC and Axl locking horns afterwards and the balance of terror preventing either party to go into detail about what happened publicly.

If true, Axl certainly stands falsely accused for the tour cancellation (if not Philly). While he may be stubborn, he might not be the monster some people (and media outlets) like to picture him as.

#675 Re: Guns N' Roses » The last minutes in Philly » 906 weeks ago

I agree with you on that, man.

However, the last five shows averaged at around $550,000, if going with the overall ticket price average of the tour ($46.72). Because we're talking about population centers, the prices were bound to more than that, which leads me to estimate the average gross in reality was around $600,000.

Had the tour been planned better to truly capitalize to the safe bets and had Axl behaved, there would've been a good deal of money to be made. In '06, Axl himself was a completely different story, but they still had several odd choices in their itinerary, like four shows in the state of Florida.

#676 Re: Guns N' Roses » The last minutes in Philly » 906 weeks ago

One needs to put the Pollstar and Billboard numbers into perspective. Pollstar recorded first ten shows, which is from Vancouver (or Tacoma) to Cleveland (or Columbus). That leaves shows like Toronto, Boston and New York down for a count. Billboard on the other hand, recorded nine shows (out of sixteen).

Pollstar's average for ten shows was at 7,344 attendants; this equals a total amount of 73,440 tickets. Billboard's nine shows reported 70,086 tickets sold. Vancouver was estimated to have had around 8000-9000 concert goers present before the cancellation. So it's a bit tricky to compare those numbers.

But anyone, who still thinks the '02 tour ticket sales stank all the way to high heaven, should read this first:

Tickets for the North American leg of the GUNS N' ROSES 'Chinese Democracy' World Tour went on sale this weekend in New York, Chicago, Philadelphia and Boston with an overwhelming response from ticket buyers. The New York date set for December 5 at Madison Square Garden sold out in fifteen minutes with the other cities doing close to capacity business. 'We are thrilled with the sales,' stated Arthur Fogel, president of Clear Channel Entertainment's Touring Division. 'We knew this was going to be a big tour but this even exceeded our expectations.' - 10/01/02


The final Pollstar numbers, which cover all 16 shows actually played, show an average of 8,660 tickets sold per show with a total amount of 138,564, with the average gross of $404,611.

Compare this to the first 10 shows (again, with Pollstar numbers):

First 10 shows sold 73,440 tickets, with an average of 7,344 tickets per show.

Last 6 shows sold 65,124 tickets, with an average of 10,854 tickets per show.


Ok, now you're going to say MSG distorted the numbers, as it was "the easy sell-out." If on full capacity, MSG holds 20,000 attendants. Scratch that from the amount and divide by five shows.

From Albany to Hartford, 45,124 tickets sold, with an average of 9,025 ticket per show.


So yeah, MSG does affect, but so does Columbus, the first of the last six shows. It had an attendance of roughly 6,000. Note that and the four shows leading up to MSG averaged with a near 10,000 concert-goers.

The tour was definetly picking during the final shows, once they started to hit the population centers.

#677 Guns N' Roses » The last minutes in Philly » 906 weeks ago

sic.
Replies: 23

I've been looking into putting the CD history from the ROV days back together again. Quite a lot of work, that one, as there were any backups; the whole thing always existed solely in cyberspace. Some of those things have since passed on to the great beyond, as they can no longer be found via Google or Internet Archive.

Which is a bummer.

But I figured I could whip out something to cover the fifth studio album's history from '94 up to late '02. The silent era is what took most of the blow with the awol sources, before that, GNR's progress (or lack of thereof) has been well-publicized in various media outlets.

Meanwhile, I ran into a couple of little things on Philly '02. They fit together quite nicely and accomodate each other, which is why I decided to plaster them together for the hell of it. Of course, we don't find out whether Axl refused to do the show because he was watching a Lakers game, got depressed because of a review at the Howard Stern show, or wasn't let into a nightclub the previous night because he was wearing a fur.

But that's really inconsequential. Philly was squarely Axl's fault, while Clear Channel were the ones cutting off the remainder of the tour. After having heard what people like Tom Zutaut, Youth and Moby had said about Axl's mental well-being little before that time, it's not a stretch to picture him to have been in a very sensitive state during the '02 tour.


Blender has discovered that Rose sulked and was depressed following the previous night's triumphant return to a sold-out Madison Square Garden in New York City. - Blender

According to Philadelphia news stations, the opening act at the First Union Center date performed for two hours before the show was called off. - Billboard, 12/21/02

*  *  *

"We were informed around 8 p.m. or so [Friday night] that Axl Rose was still in Manhattan and a helicopter was being sent to get him," explains Peter Luukko, president of Comcast-Spectacor Ventures and chairman of Global Spectrum, management company for the First Union Center. - Billboard

With a helicopter waiting on the rooftop of his hotel to take him on a brief 40-minute flight to Philadelphia for that night's show at the First Union Center, a dispirited Rose refused to budge. - Blender

"I went to the GUNS N' ROSES show tonight at the First Union Center in Philly, it was sold out and everything. Well, I got there at around 8:30 and MIX MASTER MIKE was still on stage. He kept saying how GUNS N' ROSES would be on in a minute, yet never left the stage for another 30-45 minutes. Everyone started kidding around saying that Axl wouldn't show up again. Well, MIX MASTER MIKE ended at around 9:15-9:30." - Blabbermouth

*  *  *

Things went awry shortly after the opening act, Mix Master Mike, ended its set about 9:45. Witnesses said about a half-hour later, fans began to realize something was amiss when stagehands began packing up their equipment and leaving. - Philly.com, 12/07/02

"At 10, no sign of the show starting. Word was spreading that Axl hadn't arrived yet. Then we found out that the First Union Center had put a stop on all beer sales '” kind of odd for them to do so before the main act went on. So it got to be 10:30, and still no band - people were starting to see what was coming. In between every song that was being played, the booing got louder and louder, and chants of 'asshole' began that were really loud. At that point, you knew GUNS N' ROSES wouldn't be playing." - Blabbermouth

*  *  *

Promoter Clear Channel and venue managers Comcast-Spectator set a firm deadline of 10:45pm for Rose to say whether or not he would show up to play. Rose's longtime manager, Doug Goldstein, reached at Rose's New York hotel room, glumly reported 'He's not coming.' - Blender

"Basically we were in touch with band management as to what the progress was, and at 10:45 we were informed [Rose] wasn't coming." - Billboard

*  *  *

Venue representatives boosted security to avoid a repeat of the riot that occurred when GN'R failed to turn up for their opening-night show in Vancouver on November 7. - Blender

"At that point a decision was made to make an announcement at 11:15, giving us a half-hour to get security in place and police backup from the city of Philadelphia," Luukko says.  - Billboard

"Finally, when people saw the soundboard guys cover up their equipment, all hell broke loose. People started ripping binoculars off the seats and throwing them down on the floor, people were chucking their drinks and food at security around the stage as they took the equipment away, people rushed the stage, a fight broke out, folding chairs were turned into launching pads." - Blabbermouth

*  *  *

At 11:15, the 15,000 strong audience was told the show was not going to happen 'due to illness in the band.' Fans were asked not to take their anger out on the staff or the facility. Some of them threw chairs and attacked the lighting, sound, and video crews, but no arrests or injuries were reported.  - Blender

"An announcement FINALLY came on at around 11:15 saying that the show had been cancelled due to 'health reasons' and that tickets were valid whenever the show would be rescheduled. - Blabbermouth

"It's very simple. We were informed Axl was ill and wasn't going to appear in the building, and we made an announcement," said Peter Luukko, president of Comcast Spectacor Ventures, which owns and operates the center. - Philly.com

"That really set people off, and chairs started flying at the soundboard and up on stage. It was not a pretty site. However, a good amount of people did leave and outside seemed to be quite calm in comparison to what was happening inside. There was a large police presence outside, but thankfully they were not instigating anything with angry fans. Who knows what happened, but I can tell you while I'm shocked, I'm certainly not surprised. I also think Philadelphia fans handled the situation quite well considering the circumstances and the past history with riots." - Blabbermouth

"We did have some chairs thrown and some damage in the building, but all in all, considering the difficulty of the situation, we were able to get people out with no major injuries." - Billboard

*  *  *

Attendance at other venues was underwhelming according to figures reported to Pollstar, ticket sales for the tour's first 10 dates averaged 7,344 a night for arenas that hold between 15,000 and 20,000.  - Blender

Several shows did come off, albeit to mixed critical and commercial reception. Nine shows reported to Billboard Boxscores grossed $3,228,311 and sold 70,086 tickets out of a possible 118,611 capacity, topped by $733,525 from 13,639 at Allstate Arena near Chicago. - Billboard

#678 Re: Guns N' Roses » AXL ROSE Negotiating For More Money Before Releasing 'Chinese Democrac » 907 weeks ago

Again, good points elmir.

elmir wrote:

one thing that CR article showed is that Rose is after a perfect selection of people....clean, non smokers, non drug users...non porn watchers....weird when they need to be...but "normal" at any other time....yes men...deep pocketed record execs....and the list goes on....

Basically, the polar opposites of GNR members. To this day, Axl feels drugs ruined the band and he appears to be quite critical towards substance abusers.


elmir wrote:

the irony of the whole lot is how he doesn't appear to mind belting out Jungle and ISE and cashing in still to this day on those sings which were fuelled by nothing other than substance abuse.....that energy seems to suit him just fine....

When you put it that way, Axl seems to have more of an issue the UYI's than with Appetite.


Rose: [...] I have re-recorded "Appetite" and-- [...] why do that? Well, we had to rehearse them anyway to be able to perform them live again, and there were a lot of recording techniques and certain subtle styles and drum fills and things like that that are kind of '80s signatures that subtly could use a little sprucing up... a little less reverb and a little less double bass and things like that.

[...] I don't know what I'm going to do with it, exactly, when I would be putting that out. But you know, it has a lot of energy. Learning the old Guns songs and getting them up, you know, putting them on tape, really forced everybody to get them up to the quality that they needed to be at. Once the energy was figured out by the new guys, how much energy was needed to get the songs right, then it really helped in the writing and recording process of the new record.  - MTV, 1999

Axl seems to think AFD represents all the positive things about the old band, and in order to tap into that energy, the '99 lineup needed to sink their teeth into those recordings and get into the 'vibe' that's evident in the album. While it is an album depicting a reckless lifestyle, substance abuse and what-have-you, it's also the best point of reference towards what Axl thinks the old band got right in the first place.

When compared to UYI's, it's "the better of two evils".


Loder: When you listen to that stuff back now, do you think, "Wow, that was a great band, that was a great time," or are your feelings clouded?

Rose: For me, when I hear certain things on the "Use Your Illusion" tour, I... on that record, it's... since I'm in it, I can hear a band dying. I can hear when Izzy was unconsciously over it. I can hear where the band was leaning away from what Guns N' Roses [had] originally been about.

People may have their favorite songs, and it may be on "Use Your Illusion," but most people do tend to lean towards "Appetite" as being the defining Guns N' Roses record, and I can hear how, in the sound, it was moving away from that there. There's just so much I was able to do in keeping that aspect together. - MTV, 1999

The UYI era is what greatly contributed to what Axl came to be in the latter years, losing friends left and right and alienating the band, which is something he's wouldn't like to relive all over again.


elmir wrote:

one thing i didn't see anyone mention as a potential hurdle is when Sharon Maynard (Yoda) died in early 06....this was the year we all expected the record....and her death must have sent him into a never-ending spin....what the fuck is he going to do now without his spiritual security guard...

Yoda passed on on 01/18/07, while Axl had made it to New York to finish up the recording. Whether or not she'd had health problems before the event or whether that information reached Axl's ear in late '06 is anyone's guess.

But Axl did lose both Merck and Mrs. Maynard when the finish line was finally in sight. Now he'll have to handle it by himself.

#679 Re: Guns N' Roses » AXL ROSE Negotiating For More Money Before Releasing 'Chinese Democrac » 907 weeks ago

elmir wrote:

or, it could also be that he only owes them one record...but he wants to flog 3...or even 4....at the same time....so he wishes to sell them all off at once, whereas Interscope may want only one of them, to meet their honoured clause in the contract....which again requires a whole new contract..

Good point.

Neither Axl or the label originally set off to make a trilogy. The label simply wanted an album, now Axl comes back after all these years to finally show off a concept that spans through three separate albums. He'd obviously like to ensure all the albums will see the light of day; in the worst case scenario, Uni would release the one contractually obligated album (provided Axl only owes them one), drops GNR from their roster and keeps all the other songs from the CD sessions in the vault. The songs were ultimately done in order to make ends meet, i.e. to deliver an album to Uni, whom therefore are the likely owners.

If Axl would go on with CD's release on a record deal that only requires one (or two) albums, his grand vision might end up falling flat on its face if the sales wouldn't soar in the current industry climate. Therefore he would obviously express his desire to release the trilogy in full.

madagas wrote:

The only thing Axl really owes them are the tapes and masters if he has them. They belong to Geffen. However, even that is an issue now as Axl has paid for the recordings since 2004. What a fuckin mess.:haha:

Interestingly, Merck & co. were rather adamant about all the substantial recordings dating between 2003-5. Therefore the tapes Axl owes include the album versions worked on with Sean Beavan and Roy Thomas Baker. The "finished" versions of the recordings might've been actually produced on his own dime completely, except for the Buckethead material.

Universal owns Bucket.

The idea that follows is that Buckethead will unquestionably be on the first album, given there is a total of three albums being prepared and that the current recording agreement requires atleast one new studio album. However, Axl has had enough time to figure out a contingency plan to extricate the Buckethead material from subsequent albums in case Uni would refuse to make a new deal in order to release them and would seize control over the '97-'03 recordings. In that case, Ron would likely replace Bucket on the following album(s), as he could do the work on Axl's money.

#680 Re: Guns N' Roses » AXL ROSE Negotiating For More Money Before Releasing 'Chinese Democrac » 907 weeks ago

This is the natural course of things.

The album is done and now they have to sit down and talk about who'll pay what. Both the label and Axl knew this day would (probably) come the minute funding was shut down. Anyone who might've thought all it takes is Axl finishing up is sadly mistaken. That's the usual way of doing things, but the window of opportunity closed on 12/31/03. He finished the album four years late of his last chance to remain in the label's good graces. Had the label continued to fund this merry-go-around, getting the album in 2006 might've been possible. And then again Axl might've gladly continued to his carefree search of the perfect sound in stops and spurts... for a few years more.

And the money Axl's asking wouldn't likely go into the album itself, as it's said to be done now. It'd be a bit silly for him to ask his money back, as Geffen made it quite clear in their letter that Axl is now responsible of finishing the job, no matter the cost. If Axl's asking for more money, he's not happy with the offer Universal has made him, which at this point likely refers to promotional campaigns, video shoots et al. Axl doesn't want to spend anymore of his own money on the album.

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