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Re: The last minutes in Philly
I agree with you on that, man.
However, the last five shows averaged at around $550,000, if going with the overall ticket price average of the tour ($46.72). Because we're talking about population centers, the prices were bound to more than that, which leads me to estimate the average gross in reality was around $600,000.
Had the tour been planned better to truly capitalize to the safe bets and had Axl behaved, there would've been a good deal of money to be made. In '06, Axl himself was a completely different story, but they still had several odd choices in their itinerary, like four shows in the state of Florida.
- Intercourse
- Rep: 212
Re: The last minutes in Philly
I heard that from a manager friend in NYC that Axl was looking for a 'personal appearance fee' that made the band price very high each night. Promoters wouldn;'t touch him after Philly and Vancouver, GNR management knew their business stance was fucked with Axl being so unpredictable.
I noted in '06 that he was mostly on time and on form in gigs so either 2002 to 2006 was used to get him therapy to bring him back into line (let go of CD and get out there) or maybe Uncle Axl had finally realised that he had to man up and get out and play on time everynight so he could pay to finish CD.
Damn he must be frustrating to work for....
Re: The last minutes in Philly
I was at that show, and man was I pissed. Anyway, the quotes are a pretty accurate detail as to what went on. MiMaster Mike did seem to go on long. Ending at 9:45 was odd. Then arount 10:30 people started questioning it, chanting asshole etc. But it wasn't until 11:15 that it was official. That's when the soda's & beer flew down from the upper level. I was sitting on the floor, a few seats from the soundboard (which isn't much of a soundboard anymore). In hindsight I should rushed the stage & looked to see if any guitars were up there as security was long gone.
I have a detailed post about the events on HTGTH. I'll look for it & copy & paste it here. I really don't feel like writing about it again.
Re: The last minutes in Philly
Dec 6th - 5:30, leave work.
7:00 Meet up with friend Sean
7:30 Leave for Wachovia Center
8:00 Arrive in parking Lot, drink beer or two.
8:10 Lock up car, begin journey into venue.
8:14 Run into guy selling {counterfeit} shirts, $17 each. Offer $20 for 2, deal made.
8:20 Enter show, hear Rush's 'Tom Sawyer playing. Turns out it's not the house music, but the Beastie Boys DJ as the opening act.
8:25 Wait in line for $6 overpriced, stale beer.
8:45 Find seats, on the floor, back near the soundboard.
9:00 Anticipation builds. 2 attractive girls sit next to me.
9:01 I tell Sean he picked the wrong seat, hahaha, j/k.
9:10 Cheers start.
9:12 Cheers fade.
9:15 Talk begins..
9:30 Cheers begin.
9:33 Cheers fade.
9:45 Talk begins again... {can't be true}
10:00 Cheers begin.
10:05 Cheers fade.
10:10 This is odd (I'll tie into this later) Girl next to me get's call on her cell phone, I hear her say "He's not coming???" She hangs up, says something to her friend and they prepare to leave. Hearing what she said, I ask "Is the band not playing?" She says that's not it, it was something else, and leaves..
10:15 Fans begin boooing and throwing things from the 2nd level (Sodas, popcorn etc).
10:25 Booing stops.
10:30 Cheering begins.
10:40 Cheering silences. At this point a significant amount of the crowd begins leaving. In Philly Unions are strong, and no concerts can extend past midnight. Alot of us begin realizing this show isn't going to happen. But, maybe he'll work it out & pay some extraordinary fines, right???
10:45 Booing, screaming, F-Bombs, throwing stuff continues. More people leave.
11:00 Nearly the whole stadium stands in shock, anger, disappointment. WTF??? No one sits down again.
11:15 That's it, it's over. Now, we were seated at the floor, and I remember looking up, and just seeing a massive amount of soda's popcorn, trash, etc being thrown down. I see the stadium ushers basically run for cover (I can't blame them, they're paid $9/hr to keep crowds under control for when concerts HAPPEN. Not for when Axl throws a hissy fit and doesn't show up). This is when the "riot" begins. More like a mini riot. Sean and I were among them. Sitting on basically fold up chairs on the B-ball & hockey ring floor, we & others nearby, pick them up, and throw them at the closest object, the soundboard. Grab more, and maybe 20 of us throw a total of 20-30 towards it. Maybe 5 make decent contact. People are running thru the halls creating a ruckus, grabbing shirts, stealing stuff I'm sure. In hindsight, I wish I had ran upstage and looked for one of their guitars.
11:30 Leave the stadium, pass by about 30 of Philly's finest (cops) about to enter tthe stadium with the look of fear on their faces. I walk by and pat one of them on the shoulder and say "F$%& Axl!!" They are unsure themselves of what exactly is occuring and I think one of them asked. We tell them the band never showed. One joked back "Bet you'll never see those guys again" (At the time I fully agreed, but if he came back, yeah I'd probably go) I remember the look on a black, female police officers face, and how she did not want to be there. I tell them it's not THAT bad inside, everyone's pretty much left. We walk on & begin to call friends, brothers etc about what happened.
8:30AM Sat Here's where it all ties together in an odd way. I chose to go snowboarding the next day and leave for the Pocono's early in the morning, disappointed. On the way, I listen to the local Sports Talk Radio station, being December, I suppose to hear about the Eagles (Football team, not the band) Maybe they will bring this Philly kid happiness.) Oddly enough, the host is talking off & on about the concert and how Axl was a no-show. So a guy calls up who says he is a limo driver, and had parked his limo in a VIP section last night. He got to talking to some of the GnR crew or roadies or whatever, and they told him he probably shouldn't bother, and should call his clients and ask they leave before something happens. Axl isn't there. Confused, the driver calls his clients and says "He's not coming" Hmmmm, do you think he called the girls next to me??
Re: The last minutes in Philly
This is something I picked up from HTGTH:
It has been said that Clear Channel gave Axl 1 million dollars prior to the tour as a pre-tour bonus. After the Vancouver riot and repeated late arrivals on stage, Clear Channel insisted that Axl return the million as insurance that he would "behave" for the remainder of the tour.
If Axl did not comply, CC threatened to pull the plug on the tour. Axl refused and stayed in his NYC hotel room watching a basketball game as a helicopter sat atop the hotel waiting to wisk him away to Philly. The other band members were in the building in Philly waiting for Axl to show.
Clear Channel banked on Axl giving in as they allowed the opening acts to take the stage in Philly. Axl was only an hour away via a helicopter ride. Clear Channel knew days in advance that they were gonna try and strong arm Axl. They hired people to walk around the arena and sell non-refundable $10.00 tickets to the second show that was to occur the second night in Philly. CC took advantage of fans knowing that the second concert would not go on as planned.
I remember hearing the story other way around; CC asking for a $1M insurance deposit from Axl for each show. Giving the money to him as an advance and then asking for it back is certainly more plausible. Axl was indeed in NY with a helicopter ready, while the band was in Philly, Center City Ritz-Carlton to be exact. If CC knew days in advance they'd take strong measures against Axl, the ticket sales hadn't lived up to their expectations so far. They hadn't; the average gross for the first 11 shows was around $340,000.
Again, it's like madagas said. CC didn't exactly start off by making fortunes with GNR, on the contrary, they'd been losing money for three weeks straight already and Axl's $1M would've now been money they considered he owed them. That's really the best explanation I've heard for the cancellation so far, with CC and Axl locking horns afterwards and the balance of terror preventing either party to go into detail about what happened publicly.
If true, Axl certainly stands falsely accused for the tour cancellation (if not Philly). While he may be stubborn, he might not be the monster some people (and media outlets) like to picture him as.
Re: The last minutes in Philly
Sic, I tend to believe Axl was paid a big advance on the tour (like Geffen did on the next Gnr record), then once things didn't go as planned CC tried to strong arm Axl and ask for some money back. Axl got pissed, said fu, CC said fu back and they cancelled it. You don't just not show up for a sold out show.
Tommy, Mysteron and a few others confirmed multiple times that they could not talk about the cancellation due to legal issues. They were obviously trying to settle their differences out of court as suit was never filed. You can only assume it was over money.
Re: The last minutes in Philly
I dunno, but I would think it might have something to do with insurance stemming from the Vancouver no-show. Insurers probably felt Axl was liable for the no-show and they shouldn't be responsible for covering the costs. GnR & mgmt probably felt they were, blaming the inability to leave the US in time. However it went down in the end, the insurance company likely dropped coverage, and no other insurance company was willing to pick it up.
- christina_rose
- Rep: 15
Re: The last minutes in Philly
I was there. Its funny, I was just thinking about this the other day.
I was going to go to the show by myself, but I wound up going with a friend of mine, now my husband. He was going to sit in the car, but I decided to see if I could get him a ticket. I'll never forget when I walked up to the window and asked if there were any tickets left, and was told I could have 2 seats on the floor. Thinking I was just very lucky, I bought them. I'm glad I didn't go by myself. Being on that floor was just scary. I refused to leave. When the booing and chanting and cursing started, I crossed my arms, and just waited. I watched people leave, and shook my head. Sure, I was nervous. But I came there to see a concert, and I wasn't going anywhere. When the stage was being packed up, my heart finally sank. I still didn't want to leave. Then came the binoculars, and the sodas, popcorn, and whatever else. And people were pulling up the chairs on the floor. It was so surreal. I was just frozen. My husband had to pick me up to get me to move. He carried me off the floor and over the wall. We made our way outside, and it just made me sad to see so many people so pissed off. Outside was just as crazy. I couldn't remember where I parked, so we had to walk around the building twice. I remember passing people with t-shirts in a pile on the ground that were on fire. Then the police came, and the helicopters came. I was very thankful when I got into my car. The whole thing just didn't seem real. I'll never forget that night, and how angry and upset I was.
Re: The last minutes in Philly
wow that the first i heard of the advance...and its definately a plausible reason for the tour being dropped...but if axl stayed home cuz he was mad at the promoter...its still not right...all those people were excited to see that gig
looking back on 2002...i feel extremely lucky that i got to see them
