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- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: Need Stats: Terrorism under Bush
We all know 911 happened under Bush, but prior to that terrorism wasn't anything like it is now. We had the first WTC bombing and USS Cole under Clinton, but we still didn't know he extent of our problems. After 911 when we "woke up" can we name the stats in terrorist attacks in the West under the Bush era? Can we them compare to the time after Bush? I know the war was stupid, and many nations lost many lives, however the fight stayed there. Seems like after he left office the shit spread like wild fire. Is this only because we stopped the war there or simply because the terrorists changed strategy and decided to do this.
Just making an observation.
Re: Need Stats: Terrorism under Bush
We all know 911 happened under Bush, but prior to that terrorism wasn't anything like it is now. We had the first WTC bombing and USS Cole under Clinton, but we still didn't know he extent of our problems. After 911 when we "woke up" can we name the stats in terrorist attacks in the West under the Bush era? Can we them compare to the time after Bush? I know the war was stupid, and many nations lost many lives, however the fight stayed there. Seems like after he left office the shit spread like wild fire. Is this only because we stopped the war there or simply because the terrorists changed strategy and decided to do this.
Just making an observation.
The war radicalized a big portion of Islam who were waiting for something like that so they could enter a holy war with the West. A lot of groups were formed directly because of the war, such as Isis. The burgeoning Social media and the internet also played a role, where they can now reach people all over the world they couldn't before.
We've gotten better at fighting terrorist cells, that's why there are so many low level lone wolves committing these acts, this is what Isis is calling for because theyre big plans are harder and harder to carry out, so they turn to these people to crudely make attacks with whatever they can.
It's hard to gauge because there are many attacks that are stopped we will never know about.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: Need Stats: Terrorism under Bush
But they were radicalized pre Bush, See Cole, WTC bombing, Israel... We just didn't see it coming like it came. Hell they were pissed about Bush 1 war. So maybe the war made more radicals but there were already radicals.
I think the war kept the fight there.
Re: Need Stats: Terrorism under Bush
But they were radicalized pre Bush, See Cole, WTC bombing, Israel... We just didn't see it coming like it came. Hell they were pissed about Bush 1 war. So maybe the war made more radicals but there were already radicals.
I think the war kept the fight there.
How did it keep them there? The Boston bombers weren't fighting in Iraq. Iraq helped form and establish the groups, they are recruiting outside their home countries. Keeping the war going would have done nothing to stop any terrorist attacks, it might have helped recruit more, though.
The goal has always been to attack within Western countries.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: Need Stats: Terrorism under Bush
Smoking Guns wrote:But they were radicalized pre Bush, See Cole, WTC bombing, Israel... We just didn't see it coming like it came. Hell they were pissed about Bush 1 war. So maybe the war made more radicals but there were already radicals.
I think the war kept the fight there.
How did it keep them there? The Boston bombers weren't fighting in Iraq. Iraq helped form and establish the groups, they are recruiting outside their home countries. Keeping the war going would have done nothing to stop any terrorist attacks, it might have helped recruit more, though.
The goal has always been to attack within Western countries.
Correct. But there are a lot more attacks now than under bush. That is my point.
Re: Need Stats: Terrorism under Bush
misterID wrote:Smoking Guns wrote:But they were radicalized pre Bush, See Cole, WTC bombing, Israel... We just didn't see it coming like it came. Hell they were pissed about Bush 1 war. So maybe the war made more radicals but there were already radicals.
I think the war kept the fight there.
How did it keep them there? The Boston bombers weren't fighting in Iraq. Iraq helped form and establish the groups, they are recruiting outside their home countries. Keeping the war going would have done nothing to stop any terrorist attacks, it might have helped recruit more, though.
The goal has always been to attack within Western countries.
Correct. But there are a lot more attacks now than under bush. That is my point.
Because... The floodgates were opened during the war. It created a shit load of terrorist groups that did not exist pre war... Which, along with the internet, helped recruiting to carry out more lone wolf attacks. If this is another lame attempt to blame this on Obama... It ain't gonna work. Terrorism has changed.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: Need Stats: Terrorism under Bush
They were radicalized pre 9-11, but Iraq gave them an environment to rally behind and to. We were winning while in Iraq. Jihadist came there to fight the great American devil. It was bloody, but it was largely contained. Notice you didn't have a refugee crisis, despite this.
Obama followed Bush's withdraw timeline, but did nothing in the region to leave any kind of contingency. Radicalism took root in Syria, returned to Iraq, and here we are. Drone strikes and air campaigns won't solve this. And you can't half ass retaliation. Everyone has an opinion, but few are willing to sacrifice to accomplish it.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: Need Stats: Terrorism under Bush
Terrorist attacks went up 6,500% (literally) since the start of the war, how anyone can think it was better back then, under Bush, is crazy.
Terrorist attacks for who? Excuse me if I don't get as upset when Arabs blow up other Arabs for not agreeing on who succeeded Mohammed.
These attacks jumped up in the west following the 2011 American withdraw from Iraq. The west can't stop Arabs from beheading anyone in their countries they dislike. They have an obligation to their citizens however to keep bad people out of their countries and prevent such attacks. And the DNC just removed the requirement to speak English to become a citizen. Really smart people at work behind the scenes. Keep following Merkel.
Re: Need Stats: Terrorism under Bush
At some point this is going to go too far and someone like Trump but a little less crazy is going to get all the support he needs by promising to take it to the radicals instead trying to be their friends. The only thing that can stop this (and I've said it before) is the non-radical Muslims taking their religion back. There's literally nothing we can do short of nuking the whole middle east to stop this, and I'm not sure that would work either (not to mention all the other reasons that is a bad idea).
