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Re: Old WWF question...
I was going back through some of the old WWF pay per views, and it caused me to analyze (probably over-analyze) what was going on in the WWF from 1992 to 1993...
This may be getting too detailed for some of you, but I hope others may take some interest in the topic.
The roster turnover over the span incurred massive turnover...allow me to describe even further.
In September of 1992, The Macho Man was champion and he was feuding/befriending Warrior in a rather interesting angle that clearly put them in the front and center of the WWF at that point. Hulk Hogan was showing up for pay per views, not much else, but he was still around. There were guys like Repoman, Papa Shango, Skinner, Berserker. Wrestlemania that year saw Piper vs Hart for the Intercontinental title. The Big Boss Man was in the midst of a strong push through out 1992. Ric Flair spent considerable time in 1992 as champion, including a Royal Rumble win. Mr. Perfect was making a serious push toward main event status...the list goes on.
Why am I telling you all of this? What happens in the final months of 1992 and roughtly January of 1993 is a complete change of direction in the company and nearly complete turnover. Warrior was fired before the end of 1992. Macho man is reduced to broadcasting with the occasional match with no build up. Ric Flair is gone, Mr. Perfect is gone by mid-1993 Repoman, Papa Shango, Kamala, skinner, Berserker all gone. Hulk Hogan has two matches in 1993 and is pushed out the door. The Big Boss Man and Flair, both major players of 1992 are gone before the first month of 1993 ends.
What else does late 92, early 93 bring? Bret Hart's first title reign, hardly considered possible even 6 months before it occurred. Shawn Micheals comes from being an extreme low card wrestler to upper mid-card and the IC championship right around the time Bret Hart gets his title. Yokozuna goes from unknown in late 1992 to champion by march of 1993. A major push for Razor Ramon that brings him from no none to IC in an 8 month span. Lex Luger...again, the list goes on...
I only bring this to your attention because it struck me at how much things changed in such a short period of time. Being the wrestling dork that I am, I was shocked to see what I saw when I put this time period under the microscope. I was hoping some of you had some thoughts on the era.
- NY Giants82
- Rep: 26
Re: Old WWF question...
Thanks for the trip down memory lane! I might have to dust off some of the old tapes as well!
I think it was more or less a "youth movement". Wouldnt be much longer till Ted Turner was buying up alot of the established talent in the WWF.
Re: Old WWF question...
Thanks for the trip down memory lane! I might have to dust off some of the old tapes as well!
I think it was more or less a "youth movement". Wouldnt be much longer till Ted Turner was buying up alot of the established talent in the WWF.
True...but the abruptness of it all is alarming, wouldn't you agree?
- NY Giants82
- Rep: 26
Re: Old WWF question...
Sure. I cant really remember the timing, but was that around the time that McMahon was indicted for steroid distribution or something like that, that he ultimately beat? Could have wanted to "clean" the roster up a little bit. We know thats why the Warrior was gone.
Re: Old WWF question...
wow,I remember some of that,I was never really into the WWF as it was known at the time because I working all of the time,but I did watch it every now and then,I did watch wrestling back when I was growing up in Texas,but I never really got into it much until the WCW came about and when WCW died I started watching WWF/WWE more and I still watch it,that and TNA Wrestling,but I think wrestling was more entertaining back in the old days.
Re: Old WWF question...
I think Warrior was just difficult to deal with and a general pain in the ass. He returned at WM 8 and was scheduled to be in the main event at Survivor Series in the tag team match with Flair and Razor Ramon vs Randy Savage and himself. He left like a month before the event. Mcmahon was indicted in summer of 1993. The changing of the guard really shouldn't be that suprising. Hogan, Savage and Flair were all old, even though they left on separate issues. Hogan-ego issues with WM. Flair, I think he was unhappy and wanted to go back to WCW. Savage--I'm not sure why he left. I do think the fact that WCW had emerged as a player in this does account for some of the changes. They signed Rick Rude and Jake the Snake in 1992 I think. As far as Mr. Perfect goes, he was battling a persistent back problem that limited his in ring involvement. I think he had a high insurance premium which would have benefited him if he didn't wrestle. The 1992-1993 upheaval hit its nadir when they had Hogan run in and win the WWF title in a ludicrous fashion at WM IX. That was a horrible PPV as well. Luckily Hogan left later that year. The significant point of the change of 1992-1993 was the rise of the smaller wrestler. Hart (Owen and Bret), Michaels and Razor (to the some extent) weren't the big well sculped guys favored by Vinnie Mac. They had great work rates (Razor wasn't a full on drunk at this point, that would come later) and could go. Didn't Sean Waltman aka 123 kid breakout as a star at this point too? Unfortunately, Vince's big man fetish didn't totally go away--Giant Gonzales anyone? If were looking at Spring 1993, does the fact that Monday Night Raw debuted during this time factor in here at all? Anyway this is an interesting discussion that I hope continues. I first started watching WWF during this period. So this is a trip down memory lane for me too.
Re: Old WWF question...
The biggest reason for the huge turnover, was Ted Turner was paying mega-bucks for the old men of the WWF. The veterans were being lured by massive paychecks, the likes they'd never seen, and Vince would NEVER match.
At first it was the rise of WCW, because of the talent... it also, like the Yankees, ended up being their ultimate demise of their dynasty. Those overpaid veterans are great... 'til they're too old busted up, and burnout. The end game for WCW.
Then of couse Vince went in, ruled again, then just bought out WCW, and fired most of them - again.
Vince also felt the future in the mid-90's, lied with guys like Shawn Michaels & The Undertaker (which he was right, who are both still with the company today, and have never left for a competing brand). Bret Hart was the big reliable superstar of old still with the WWF, and by 1996 a new gen of legends were on the rise with guys like Steve Austin, Rocky "The Rock" Maivia, Mick Foley, and Triple H, to name a few. He ended up being right. It didn't help with the eye for talent over at WCW in Eric Bischoff & Dusty Rhodes, were looking at guys like Steve Austin, Mick Foley & Triple H as wrestlers "with no future". 
Vince panicked, and initially WWF started getting it's ass kicked on a regular basis by WCW. By 1997, there were MAJOR worries in the company that it was Ted Turner, who would destroy Vince, and make a bid for the WWF, as WWF Raw's ratings were in the shitter, and new generation superstars weren't exactly taking off. But WCW's bad decisions on certain talent, helped Vince immensley, and cheap too. WCW's throwaway nobodies, were the next generation of legends with the right push. Then Shane McMahon come up with the brilliant idea of "WWF Attitude". The wrestling would become more story-driven to the 'nth degree, and much more adult. The advent of the nWo copycat - D-Generation X, as well as "Stone Cold" Steve Austin and his "fuck the man" attitude, reinvigorated the company, and ultimately drew viewers back. I think this was just luck on Vince's part. If he had not amassed a new roster of talent with Austin, The Rock, Foley, and the DX faction, I think today WCW would still be going. Just think... if in 1997, the WWF's new era of wrestlers were godawful, untalented crap can wrestlers like John Cena & Batista among others... lmao... Vince McMahon would be a memory today producing bad reality TV shows, while Ted Turner would be wrestling king.
Re: Old WWF question...
Since we're discussing post 1993 WWF, here's a couple of things I think were important towards WCW's dominance of WWF(1995-early 1998). WCW basically hit a home run with the nwo angle(at least in 1996 before it became lame later). When Scott Hall and Kevin Nash first appeared on WCW in spring 1996, it was implied that WWF was invading WCW. (note: it was eventually clarified that neither man was working for WWF at that time) The booking was absolutely brilliant as this kinda became a mystery as to who would be the third guy as everyone was being mentioned--Bret Hart, Sting etc. No one suspected it would be Hogan as he was a babyface for the majority of his career. That was a giant SWERVE that was perfectly booked since Hogan was getting stale at the time. FYI, Bobby Heenan almost blew the surprise with his commentary after Hogan starts running out.
Isn't WWF attitude greatly infleunced by classic ECW? So in that regard some credit must be given to Paul Heyman's wrestling organization. I mean the classic Hart-Austin WM XIII I Quit Match has ECW written all over it. Plus the Austin's fuck it all attitude originated in 1995 with an ECW promo where he wears a bandana and starts shooting on a whole bunch of people--Bischoff and Hogan included. Remember the hardcore title, and the increase of blood on WWE tv, those were all ECW style things in which they incorporated into their product.
While WCW made a lot of boneheaded personnel moves as outlined by AxlinO8, you can't omit the stupidity of their booking decisions. David Arquette as WCW champion, Dennis Rodman wrestling (and clearly in it for the money), and that bad Megadeth/Curt Hennig angle are some examples. On top of that giving Kevin Nash the booking responsibilities in the late 90s led to their decline as well. Fingerpoke of doom anyone remember that bad angle--hyped main event only to end in a disappointing swerve. The misuse of Bret Hart also counts as a strike against WCW creative.
I think Vince kinda got lucky when the "Mr. McMahon" character took off. Lucky in the sense that most of the fans still sided with Bret Hart in the Montreal screwjob dispute. It gave Vince instant heat with the fans and he just played off being an arrogant jerk which he probably is in real life.
Re: Old WWF question...
WCW was bullshit because every Nitro ended with a double DQ. In the early 90s, me and my grandpa used to like WCW because they had more quality matches on TV (WWF Superstars was all jobbers). But by the time we got RAW easily accessible here, I was hardcore into WWF. I always enjoyed it more than WCW, especially when they were losing in the ratings. I loved the nWo angle, but the shows just weren't nearly as entertaining as watching Stone Cold feud with McMahon, Undertaker learning about Kane and Mick Foley being Mick Foley. I still remember when DX invaded "dubya c dubya", it was awesome.
Re: Old WWF question...
It had nothing to do with luck. Love him or hate him, say what you want about him, but Vince Mcmahon is THE smartest person in the history of the wrestling business. His vision for monopolizing the "sport" came to fruition in the early 80s(pre-Hogan era). He set out to destroy every wrestling organization, and that's what he did even though it took almost 20 years.
He pretty much won the war in early 1987. The PPV craze was in its infancy, and he forced cable companies to choose between carrying the Survivor Series(WWF) or Starrcade(NWA), and since the cable companies knew Vince had a stronghold on wrestling nationwide, they had to choose WWF so he wouldn't withhold Wrestlemania(a massive event at the time) from them. This decision destroyed what is known as classic NWA, and it also caused Jim Crockett to virtually go bankrupt. What makes this story so tragic is the fact NWA actually had a superior product at the time. Vince isn't completely to blame though. Crockett fucked himself in the ass by moving the Thanksgiving event Starrcade from its former homes of Charlotte and Atlanta to Chicago, where no one really gave a shit about NWA. It didn't even sell out. This pissed off the loyal fanbase of NWA. Without them, the product was nothing.
The death of NWA can also be traced back to Magnum T.A.'s car crash. He was the next superstar, and his popularity at the time was nearing Hogan territory. The decision was already made to let Magnum win the belt from Flair, but his car crash changed the course of wrestling forever. Tons of casual fans stopped watching. Their venues went from sellouts to what looked like a Chinese Democracy tour in the blink of an eye.
The ONLY reason WCW/NWA didn't fold back then is because Ted Turner bought it back in 88.
As far as the 92-93 era being discussed, I can say one thing.....
Out with the old, in with the new.
Vince knew that wrestlers like Hogan, Flair, Savage, etc. were burnt toast. Their heyday was looooooooong gone. The company was stagnating. How many people wanted to see Hogan fight Savage again? No one, and Vince knew that. So he liquidated the roster and let new talent take over for the next generation of fans to idolize.
Vince's big mistake before doing this was not having the Hogan/Flair dream match that people all over the world had wanted since 1984. He had a once in a lifetime event in the palm of his hands, but for some reason never properly pulled the trigger. Flair and Hogan feuded a bit at that time, but it revolved around giving the Undertaker a push and a proper match never materialized.
When Vince washed his hands of these aging stars, NWA/WCW took the easy way out and signed them. They actually played into Vince's hands by doing this. About a year later, wrestling fans got the Flair/Hogan dream match, but by that time no one cared because both men were long past the prime of their careers. While WCW was catering to Hogan, Flair, Savage,etc., new blood like Benoit, Austin, Malenko, Pilman, Guerrero,etc. were just sitting idle wasting their careers. WCW had to gradually let these guys go because they had to pay the veterans salaries, and of course Mcmahon snatched them up immediately.
Yeah the NWO was a decent angle and kept the company afloat for a couple years, but it just showed that all they cared about was propping up wrestlers in their mid 40's/early 50's. I don't care that its fake, but Joe Blow doesn't want to see a 50 year old man as world champ when there's a ton of mid 20's talent wasting away. Even people who loved Flair and Hogan in their prime were sick of this garbage.
