You are not logged in. Please register or login.
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
Re: "Better" starting to gain MASSIVE steam..
yur right about everything, buzz, except..............
i wouldn't go as far as to say they are done. they will need to come up with something more relevant next time around, whether it be more modern sounding or more classic sounding music if they want to surpass this album's numbers. they have that option because they have our ears. they have our ears because of the brand name.
They have OUR ears, yes. They don't have anybody else's though.
Re: "Better" starting to gain MASSIVE steam..
buzzsaw wrote:BurningHills wrote:Also - the negativity here and everywhere else in general is getting really fucking annoying.
If I'm not around that often anymore, don't be surprised. It's a fucking buzzkill.
This is insane. It is what it is. We're not making things up to be negative. It IS negative.
I don't see what's negative about the situation at all.
"Chinese Democracy" has already gone gold.
Best Buy has sold roughly 1/4 to 1/3 of it's entire stock in a little over a month and a half.
"Chinese Democracy" is STILL a top 10 hit at rock radio.
"Better" should be in the top 10 next week.
Besides the lack of promotion, how is this a disaster? Because from the facts that I just posted, it sure as fuck doesn't seem like one to me.
You're assuming... and you'll be wrong too.
Re: "Better" starting to gain MASSIVE steam..
I admire those that can hang on to hope where there is none.
I sure as fuck don't. It's ignorant, pointless, and a waste of their and everyone else's time. You can either see the situation for what it is, or stick your head in the sand, and I prefer to see it for how it is.
If this was Christianity, I could understand dying hard on faith... but it's Guns N' Fuckin' Roses, and not even the real one either.
There's nothing wrong throwing in the towel, and saying this visionary idea of warrior Axl coming back for his rock throne was a fanboy illusion. I'd love for it to be a roaring success. It ain't.
Future albums? Who's going to buy those when nobody is buying this one?
Only the diehards. Guaranteed.
Top 10 single? Not really.
CD is a huge radio hit... didn't 'ya know?
Better just now being discovered? Not likely, and I like the song.
Better isn't being discovered. 
About the only positive is that the record company got their money. So what? They are happy, we got a subpar product with errors and flaws all over the place. That's not the recipe for repeat business. The novelty is over. Nobody cares. So any positives from making things right with the label are eliminated by the fact that nobody gives a shit anymore about this version of GnR.
As someone who prefers the old band, you'd think I'd be the one that's excited, wouldn't you? A reunion is the public future of GnR. Whatever band exists now may try to release material, but the fact is that this version is finished. Nobody will check out a follow-up, tours will get smaller and smaller, and the ONLY saving grace would be a reunion. That is the reality of the situation we have today.
Karma for the cold, hard - TRUTH.
Re: "Better" starting to gain MASSIVE steam..
buzzsaw wrote:BurningHills wrote:Also - the negativity here and everywhere else in general is getting really fucking annoying.
If I'm not around that often anymore, don't be surprised. It's a fucking buzzkill.
This is insane. It is what it is. We're not making things up to be negative. It IS negative.
I don't see what's negative about the situation at all.
"Chinese Democracy" has already gone gold.
Best Buy has sold roughly 1/4 to 1/3 of it's entire stock in a little over a month and a half.
"Chinese Democracy" is STILL a top 10 hit at rock radio.
"Better" should be in the top 10 next week.
Besides the lack of promotion, how is this a disaster? Because from the facts that I just posted, it sure as fuck doesn't seem like one to me.
With this album, it almost has to be looked at from two different perspectives. What people built it up to be, and then what became the reality of the situation. You've been on these various sites for years and have seen all the pie in the sky scenarios that have floated about by all types of fans. None of them lived up to the reality.
So while I do agree that its not technically a flop, it didn't do near the damage it was predicted to do and it lowered expectations drastically for future projects associated with the GNR name. Not fond of VR/GNR comparisons, but this album was basically new GNR's Contraband. Its what people were interested in and wanted to see what they could do. The next album is likely to be their Libertad unless there's some super catchy tune that propels it into the stratosphere.
I don't even consider that a "negative" response. Its just how things turned out. While you are correct in saying all these sites may have some "buzzkill" attached to them, its just the hardcore base reacting to how it all turned out.
I think its a solid album and would love to see it catch on at some point. Chances of that happening at this stage are minimal, and I'm sure you would admit that. Is it "gaining steam"? Yeah a little, but its a far cry from the "civilization dancing in the streets to Better' predictions we've seen since 2006.
To be honest, I have no issues with GNR being a bit more low key if that is the direction Axl wants to take this project from this point forward. Like I mentioned in a different thread, we might actually get some more interesting music if he's not concerned with dominating the charts.
Another thing that adds to the "buzzkill" you describe is the fact this album didn't resonate with many people outside the hardcore base. None of these forums saw a noticeable increase in new fans. I think the communities are adjusting to the fact that not only were we the 'last line of defense', we're pretty much all there is that has any real interest in new GNR and/or any future projects.
Re: "Better" starting to gain MASSIVE steam..
Many a band would love to be able to say they have 500,000 hardcore fans in the US and about another 1.5 million worldwide. Any record company in the world be interested in those numbers.....especially if they were sitting on other new material and a back catalog to kill for. Doing business with Axl Rose is still a profitable situation. If you don't think so, then you are the one who is delusional.
Re: "Better" starting to gain MASSIVE steam..
Many a band would love to be able to say they have 500,000 hardcore fans in the US and about another 1.5 million worldwide. Any record company in the world be interested in those numbers.....especially if they were sitting on other new material and a back catalog to kill for. Doing business with Axl Rose is still a profitable situation. If you don't think so, then you are the one who is delusional.
Axl will always be a money maker. While I may "whine" like some others at these sites regarding certain issues, there's no denying Axl's star power. Can he fill a stadium now? No. Can he sell 10 million records? No. However, when this guy sneezes, the world watches and they most certainly respect him for everything he brought to the music world and they do know he is one of the most talented artists of the last few decades. Even people who hate him will not deny what he brings to the table.
He is also one of the most recognizable people on the planet, and is in the same league as Jordan, Ali, and ex presidents. When he walks through the door, everyone there takes notice.
Re: "Better" starting to gain MASSIVE steam..
My post was aimed at Buzz for the record....I was just laughing at his assertion that no one is buying the record when it has sold close to 2,000,000 worldwide in 6 weeks. Gnr fans are so spoiled that they have completey lost touch with reality.....or they have major axes to grind like Buzz. Of course, it is not succesful by Gnr standards, but it is a success by record industry standards. The record company made all their money back with the Best Buy deal in the US, then sold about another 1,250,000 records outside the US...pretty much pure profit considering no promotion. Jimmy Iovine is a happy man and said so in one of his recent interviews-another good indication for future releases.
Re: "Better" starting to gain MASSIVE steam..
While Uni might not be happy regarding Axl's involvement in promotion, there isn't much reason for them to bitch about anything else regarding the record. It didn't set the world on fire, but it had semi-decent sales and they certainly made a decent chunk of change from it.
As long as their expectations for future releases are based in reality, they should be happy as pigs in shit because they might have another album to unload in a year or two, a possible reissue of CD this year that hardcores will buy, and of course the discography can easily be milked with some live releases or another GH set.
If Uni gave that Ritz show an official release, just about anyone who has ever been a fan of the band would buy that. Also, GNR never released a proper box set. While the entire discog isn't large, it can easily be filled with goodies.
The GNR cash registers are still open for business. They wont be closing any time soon.
Re: "Better" starting to gain MASSIVE steam..
James alluded to this earlier and I'd just like to echo his thoughts. It appears Axl is content having his hardcore fanbase. He released this album that many of us have been waiting the better part of a decade for. Many jumped ship along the way, but for those who remain, we finally got it. Axl has been one of the biggest rock stars in the world in the most dangerous band. He's been there done that. He's a little older now, he's got much more money than he had when he was just starting to make it big. Maybe he's not concerned with ruling the world again. We all remember the good old days and how huge GNR once were. We see the poor sales now and think it's embarassing. GNR ruled the rock world SEVENTEEN YEARS AGO. They pretty much went away for those 17 years and along the way changed some major parts. It didn't phase me or detract from my excitement and support. But it surely did for others.
So I suggest we stop trying to compare 2008/09 GNR to 1987-1993 GNR. It's not really worth it in the end. While the band name remains the same, it's a different animal. I think James is on to something when he said that Chinese Democracy is sort of like VR's Contraband. I just hope he's wrong about the next release being like Libertad.
And as madagas has mentioned the sales really haven't been as AWFUL as some of you have painted them to be. Again, if you're gonna compare them to AFD you're comparing apples and oranges. You can't even compare them to ACDC or Metallic either. Those bands have stayed in the public eye over the years and have much more faithful fanbases. I admittedly hoped CD's sales would come close to either one of those bands but looking back on it that was just never going to happen. But that's fine. Considering the economic crisis we're in, the Best Buy exclusive, the lack of promo from the band, the sales really aren't all that bad.
I know some people may think I'm crazy for saying such things, for actually trying to stay positive. I know some think I must have my head in the sand. I'm actually just facing reality. I survived the torture of the last 7 years waiting for the album. Now that I've finally got it in my possession I'm supposed to pout and bitch about how bad things are? I'm sorry, I don't get that rationale. All I can do is enjoy the fantastic album that I waited so long for. Anything more than that is just icing on the cake.
Re: "Better" starting to gain MASSIVE steam..
Here's a review from espn.com that covers the lack of reception for the album.
Entire review
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/thelife/ … id=3833227
After thoroughly digesting the album, I decided it couldn't have been the music that was responsible for the lack of excitement. Or rather, excitement that was smaller than I would have expected. To my mind, the music was surprisingly good. I could see the weaknesses, but they didn't seem glaring enough to warrant apathy.
I was stumped.
I asked around. Were any of my friends excited about this development? Not really, it seemed. Most expressed similar ignorance regarding the release of "Chinese Democracy." I discarded my first reaction, which was that I needed to get new friends, but only because it's too hard to make new ones, and came to grips with the fact that no one I knew really cared about Guns N' Roses anymore.
I felt like the guy holding up his lighter long after the power ballad had finished. I had long thought that the return of Axl Rose would be heralded like the second coming of Elvis Presley. Or at least of Jim Morrison.
I was wrong. Maybe I overestimated their importance, or maybe -- and this seems more likely -- the timing was wrong. Maybe people just got tired of waiting. They got old, had kids, and stopped worrying about popular music, leaving people my age and younger to carry the GNR torch. Unfortunately, people my age (and especially people younger than I am) were more interested in Nirvana and Pearl Jam.
Like love, music is about timing. Imagine if someone would have knocked on the door when Kurt Cobain was applying his toe to the trigger of his shotgun. Or if all the members of U2 would have been wiped out by a bus when they should have -- right after the "Pop" album.
Or if "Chinese Democracy" had come out three years ago.
It's probably fitting that it didn't. Guns N' Roses has always been cursed. Usually -- it would appear -- by discord caused by Axl Rose's giant ego. It wouldn't be Guns N' Roses if everything went perfectly. And if everything went perfectly for Guns N' Roses, Axl Rose wouldn't be tormented by anything, and Guns N' Roses would be Poison.
Since I don't like Poison all that much, I'm glad "Chinese Democracy" wasn't bigger. Maybe this will mean a new album, new imperfections, and new ways for Axl Rose to send shivers down my spine with that voice.
