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- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: Oscars 2009
You gotta understand the world as a whole isn't filled with Batman nutswingers(although the box office tally might say otherwise). I dislike Batman on a pretty massive scale, however I can separate that dislike and acknowledge that Ledger brought something unique to a character I care nothing about and he certainly 'owned' all others who played the Joker.
Bardem put in one of the best performances this decade. He earned that Oscar regardless of any Academy "politics". I wouldn't place Ledger up there on the same plateau as Bardem. Like Tejas, I don't think Ledger would have even been nominated had he survived that night of drug use.
On the contrary, I think your bias against Batman makes you unwilling to realize how great Ledger's performance was. Quite frankly, it took a fuckload more energy and dedication for him to pull off that role than it did Bardem to do his role. It was easily on the same level and probably a better performance when you take everything into consideration. If you've ever seen how Ledger was in real life or any of his other movies for that matter, you know that he did a hell of a job with the Joker role.
Re: Oscars 2009
And I think the fact that Nolan's films are loaded with such fantastic ensemble casts (Burton's were too), also makes it even more intriguing for Ledger to steal the show, considering the fact the great Michael Caine & Morgan Freeman aren't anyone to shake your finger at. Maybe not award-worthy, but an amazing, and classy prescence they bring to the table.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: Oscars 2009
And I think the fact that Nolan's films are loaded with such fantastic ensemble casts (Burton's were too), also makes it even more intriguing for Ledger to steal the show, considering the fact the great Michael Caine & Morgan Freeman aren't anyone to shake your finger at. Maybe not award-worthy, but an amazing, and classy prescence they bring to the table.
Well, he had no dialogue scenes with those two guys. He did, however, have scenes with Bale, Oldman, and Eckhart...all three of which are great actors in their own right. And of course he stole the show from all three of them even though they were all great in their interaction with him.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: Oscars 2009
Agreed. I'm just saying it's even more of a remarkable achievement for an actor to have a memorable performance, in a sea of remarkable actors.
I feel like shooting myself for forgetting about the infinitely cool and brilliant Gary Oldman.
Oh I know what you meant. Nolan has done something extraordinary in getting such great casts for his Batman movies. It's truly shocking that after B&R he was able to get the likes of Bale, Caine, Neeson, Freeman, et al to sign on to Batman Begins. But Richard Donner's cast in Superman helped give Nolan the credibility to get those actors into a superhero movie, even after the atrocious B&R.
As for Oldman, he was incredible in TDK. What I loved about the acting from all the big gun actors in TDK was their eyes. When Oldman interrogates Ledger in the police station and Ledger asks him, "Does it depress you, Commissioner, to know just how alone you REALLY are?" The look that comes across Oldman's face is classic. Excellent acting. I love the look in Bale's eyes when he asks Ledger, "What did you do?" while Ledger is hanging upside down and then Ledger tells him that he brought Dent down to "our [Batman and Joker's] level." That look in Bale's eyes is great. True shock and horror. And also the look in his eyes when Eckhart is complaining that he was the "only one" who lost everything. Bale's eyes say it all when he says, "It wasn't." That look of pain in his eyes. Great acting. I don't like Bale's Batman voice, but he really did a great job in both BB and TDK with Bruce Wayne and the emotions of Batman, even if he screwed up the voice.
Re: Oscars 2009
The Batman films have always had great casts imo, with the exception of B&R.
Batman '89 - Keaton, Nicholson & Basinger
Returns - Keaton, Pfeiffer, DeVito & Walken
Forever (yeah, even though it's probably the worst film any of these people have ever been in) - Kilmer, Jones, Kidman, Carrey...
All of those actors listed there at one time or another had critically revered work, whether comedy or drama.
It's B&R that really sucks. Thurman is more of a novelty actress, and when I think of the truely remarkable actors of our time, somehow the names Clooney, Schwarzenegger & Silverstone... don't come to mind, even though Lalawood has a hard on for the very standard and unimpressive Clooney.
It's amazing when you go back and compared B89, Returns, Forever, Begins & TDK in comparison to B&R. B&R is a case where they clearly when for the 'box office lineup' rather than casting the right people.
I've always thought the cast for Forever was perfect for those roles... it's just the film that was fuckin' horrid. Script, execution, Schmacher. They fucked it up, not the cast, and later on everyone found out the over the top campy schlock they did, was at the persistence of Schumacher.
I've always been curious to set back the clock, different script, and a more capable director, and give them that cast, and see what comes out as a Batman film.
*Sorry for the off-topic Batman thread material folks.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: Oscars 2009
It wasn't just Schumacher that wanted the over the top campy schlock. It was WB. The dumbass studio execs thought it was an excellent idea to turn it into a "kid friendly" franchise after Batman Returns had a significant drop from B89 at the box office. And sure enough it worked, especially overseas, compared to Batman Returns. The funny thing though is that Batman Forever and Batman Returns' ticket sales in North America aren't that far apart (around $12 million difference in 1995 dollars). It's the overseas gross where Batman Forever killed Batman Returns due to the "kid friendly" factor. But they apparently thought this was proof that completely abandoning the hardcore fanbase was a good idea. Oops, that completely backfired when they took the "kid friendly" element so over the top in B&R that it turned into a joke. And it wasn't even kid friendly. More like poorly written, poorly acted, and poorly directed homo-erotic garbage.
Re: Oscars 2009
^ Schumacher has a message for you...
If anyone reading this needs to know why.. 
[youtube]AJWpmPGCR1c&feature=related[/youtube]
Re: Oscars 2009
why do you dislike batman so massively?
I just have a strong dislike for superhero movies and kid movies. This franchise pretty much falls into both categories.
Watching that Batman movie from 1989 in the theater is possibly the worst theater experience in my life. A snooze fest straight from the gates of hell.
On the contrary, I think your bias against Batman makes you unwilling to realize how great Ledger's performance was.
I already said it was the best Joker performance to date. How much more praise can I possibly offer?
I still think I would rank his performance in Monsters Ball ahead of this.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: Oscars 2009
Paxcow wrote:why do you dislike batman so massively?
I just have a strong dislike for superhero movies and kid movies. This franchise pretty much falls into both categories.
Watching that Batman movie from 1989 in the theater is possibly the worst theater experience in my life. A snooze fest straight from the gates of hell.
On the contrary, I think your bias against Batman makes you unwilling to realize how great Ledger's performance was.
I already said it was the best Joker performance to date. How much more praise can I possibly offer?
I still think I would rank his performance in Monsters Ball ahead of this.
When you call the other well-known Joker performance "one of the worst theater experiences" of your life and a "snooze fest straight from hell," it's not really saying much when you call Ledger's Joker better than everyone else's, since I'll just assume you probably haven't watched the Animated Series so your comparison is between Ledger and Nicholson.
Coming from a guy who is as big of a horror fan as you are, I think it's pretty amusing that you take such a big dump on superhero movies. It's been a far more consistent genre in terms of quality than the horror genre. Even the turds like Catwoman and Batman & Robin aren't anywhere near as bad as so many thousands of rehashed, unoriginal horror movies out there.
