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Re: The Possibility of a Guns N' Roses '09 Summer tour
I have a problem with Scraped seeing how cut and pasted it is. That's a song Bob Ezrin could have done wonders for. But I can tell you right now I'd sill have problems with the songs I have a problem with now even if I had never heard the original demos. I know what I like and I know what I don't like. And it didn't have to be loaded with sound. That's ridiculous. There's just so much going on with guitars that it is near IMPOSSIBLE to layer it all perfectly in the mixing process. That's why some of the unmixed demos come off better.
I know there's a school of thought that we're just attached to the demos and its our fault for listening to them. I can say I'd feel the same way if I didn't. But we did hear them. And they were better. I also prefer the 2001-02 live versions of Madagascar and The Blues and they sound nothing like the demos. And nothing I've heard studio wise has lived up to those live versions.
I think what James was talking about on IRS with Pittman is his work that's on the studio version, and you can barely make it out. Tommy's bass was killer on the IRS demos, especially on the 99 version.
And I said Ron ruined the song CD. Not the album itself. I still love the album and think its very good, despite thinking there was a better version of it before.
Re: The Possibility of a Guns N' Roses '09 Summer tour
I think Ron SAVED the song CD. Before it was mediocre rock song. Thankfully he came in and added some guitar and it did wonders for the song. I doubt it would have been a single if it wasn't for Ron. That doesnt mean the song is all that good, because it isn't and I get uncomfy everytime it's on the radio because there's so many other songs which gives you a lot more than that easy song. Scraped for instance...without the annoying intro it could have been good. Imagine a riff starting it off or something...why on earth did they choose that singing???
Sometimes Rons input sounds forced. Copied and pasted. Too much. I haven't listened to the Better demo for ages...but when I first heard what people called "The Pitman mix" version, the song lost a lot of balls. They should have put it out as the FIRST single and not the second. Then that song would be in the radio and not that CD song which Ron saved in the last second.
IRS was never a good song and no matter what you do with it, it won't be a good song. It doesn't give you much.
What CD lacks, and we have discussed this before, is the kick in the balls rock song anthem. It doesn't exist. The guitars should have been more infront with good riffs. I guess Robin wasn't capable or that it was not the direction they wanted. And why don't they release This I Love as a single? It's November Rain's cousin...maybe brother...push it.
Here's to Dj Ashba for saving the guitar issue. Hopefully.
Re: The Possibility of a Guns N' Roses '09 Summer tour
And it didn't have to be loaded with sound. That's ridiculous. There's just so much going on with guitars that it is near IMPOSSIBLE to layer it all perfectly in the mixing process. That's why some of the unmixed demos come off better.
Again my point here is that its unfair to blame the shear amount of sounds on Ron, or any of the musician's, in the end it was Axl's baby and this is how he wanted it
I know there's a school of thought that we're just attached to the demos and its our fault for listening to them. I can say I'd feel the same way if I didn't. But we did hear them. And they were better. I also prefer the 2001-02 live versions of Madagascar and The Blues and they sound nothing like the demos. And nothing I've heard studio wise has lived up to those live versions.
I'm not blaming anyone for listening to the demos and live cuts...i did so myself...i'm just of the opinion that if you listen to somethign continuously your brain starts to expect things to happen, when they dont it throws ya...one perfect example is the blues in Rio...how many peopel still say "OK Nevermind" in the middle 
this happened to me back in the illusion days to, and to this day i prefer the Days of Thunder KOHD to the album cuz of the cut out lines...but otherwise the songs appears to be identical
I think what James was talking about on IRS with Pittman is his work that's on the studio version, and you can barely make it out. Tommy's bass was killer on the IRS demos, especially on the 99 version.
so pitman was intitially drowned out...and now that its drowned out you are upset? ok 
As for Tommy, i was never really noticed his work on the demos we heard prior to the release...same with the final product...it still doesnt stand out much
Re: The Possibility of a Guns N' Roses '09 Summer tour
Sometimes Rons input sounds forced. Copied and pasted. Too much. I haven't listened to the Better demo for ages...but when I first heard what people called "The Pitman mix" version, the song lost a lot of balls.
just as many people bitch about too much synth as not enough...cant please everyone..and to be honest gnr always was on the guitar heavy side....makes sense to push it to the back more than make it prominant IMO
as for contributions sounding forced and put and pasted...i still say its cuz your brain is used to hearing the songs a certain way, so you pick up subtle differences in what you are used to hearing.
one other point i wanna add to my repliese to MrID above and in additon to my pitman reply to DCK as well...i heard pretty tied up yesterday and the piano is pushed so far back you can barely hear it...even on UYI's there was a bit of a wall of sound at times...but they are mixed so much better they have some real depth to the tracks....for some reason CD never quite got there....
Re: The Possibility of a Guns N' Roses '09 Summer tour
as for contributions sounding forced and put and pasted...i still say its cuz your brain is used to hearing the songs a certain way, so you pick up subtle differences in what you are used to hearing.
Normally I agree with you on this one. The Blues Rio 3 was played too quick and had that "Ok nevermind" thing and people just thought it was like that. The song was never supposed to be like that anyway.
But as for Better and Ron...I still think some of it sounds force and added.
I also prefer the BH Rhiad solo because its simply better and not just random tones from the guitar.
However...if you turned this on the head...listened to the studio first and then demos...I doubt we would have this conversation because people would prefer the studio version.
But..
Mick Mars for instance once wrote something about demos once and he agreed sometimes they sounded better, just for the rawness of the mix alone. For example, I loved the Looks That Kill demo when I first heard it...much more than the studio version. Another is the demo of Aerosmith's Line Up...sometimes it's just like that...less is more..bring the guitars higher in the mix...less sounds and you got yourself a better song. I also prefer the 2nd demo of CrashDiet's "Queen Obscene" too, so you can't just blame it on what you listen to first.
Re: The Possibility of a Guns N' Roses '09 Summer tour
I think Rons contributions were fairly detrimental to the albums quality, his parts basically replace Tommy's bass.
The "Anti-Quiet" leaks showed it perfectly, I don't think "Catcher In The Rye" even has to be discussed.
Re: The Possibility of a Guns N' Roses '09 Summer tour
misterID wrote:And it didn't have to be loaded with sound. That's ridiculous. There's just so much going on with guitars that it is near IMPOSSIBLE to layer it all perfectly in the mixing process. That's why some of the unmixed demos come off better.
Again my point here is that its unfair to blame the shear amount of sounds on Ron, or any of the musician's, in the end it was Axl's baby and this is how he wanted it
Dude, I just said that like 2 posts before! 
misterID wrote:I know there's a school of thought that we're just attached to the demos and its our fault for listening to them. I can say I'd feel the same way if I didn't. But we did hear them. And they were better. I also prefer the 2001-02 live versions of Madagascar and The Blues and they sound nothing like the demos. And nothing I've heard studio wise has lived up to those live versions.
I'm not blaming anyone for listening to the demos and live cuts...i did so myself...i'm just of the opinion that if you listen to somethign continuously your brain starts to expect things to happen, when they dont it throws ya...one perfect example is the blues in Rio...how many peopel still say "OK Nevermind" in the middle
I could really adapt to a new version of a song. If I really liked the changes. I just don't here.
misterID wrote:I think what James was talking about on IRS with Pittman is his work that's on the studio version, and you can barely make it out. Tommy's bass was killer on the IRS demos, especially on the 99 version.
so pitman was intitially drowned out...and now that its drowned out you are upset?
As pointed out above, the real victim is Tommy. His bassline is what made CD cool, and you can't hear it over Ron. And his bass was heavy on the 99 demos of IRS and TWAT. Again, this all falls in Axl's lap.
If you listen real close to IRS you can hear the organ and some cool 'synth sounds--that weren't on the demos.'
Re: The Possibility of a Guns N' Roses '09 Summer tour
I like the album version of IRS the best, but the original "metal" sounding leak was awesome as well. Listening to that on headphones whilst mega stoned was really great, there was some cool guitar effects that were not as apparant when straight up sober. The leaks in between the first leak and the album version all sounded half finished to me and were not as enjoyable.
I wish that song got some more love, I hope Axl releases it as the next single just to piss the forums dwellers off 
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Re: The Possibility of a Guns N' Roses '09 Summer tour
I like the album version of IRS the best, but the original "metal" sounding leak was awesome as well. Listening to that on headphones whilst mega stoned was really great, there was some cool guitar effects that were not as apparant when straight up sober. The leaks in between the first leak and the album version all sounded half finished to me and were not as enjoyable.
I wish that song got some more love, I hope Axl releases it as the next single just to piss the forums dwellers off
More often than not IRS has been the critics favourite new song. They could do worse than release it as a single. Lets face it there's nothing to lose.
