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Re: So where does GN'R stand right now and what is the current news?
faldor wrote:And when he mentioned a trilogy, when did he ever say they'd be released simulataneously? Excuse me if I missed that, but I don't ever recall hearing or reading that. In that radio interview he mentioned the 3 albums that would be released one by one followed by touring.
When he himself described "The Plan" -
On 08/26/02, during the last European show in Docklands Arena, London, the album issue was brought up again.
"There's been some concern. That if we play five or six new songs, then there can't that many more on the album. Au contraire, mon frére. We're just playing the songs we're not considering putting out as singles or anything. So, you'll get 18 songs, and about 10 extra tracks. And when that, when the record company feels that has run its course, then you'll get it all over again. By that time, I should be done with the third album. So we'll see if all goes well boys and girls." (Axl, Docklands, 08/26/02)
A total number of around 60-70 songs was said to have been in the works at the time, with 41 of them A-listed. Axl's numbers implied that after CD would be out along with the extra tracks, there'd be around 13 tracks left on the A-list, with another 20-30 on the B-list. Another album (without another EP) with the same amount of material would've left 15-25 songs in reserve, which would've been sufficient for three separate albums.
Obviously, somethings didn't work so well boys and girls.
No bonus tracks/B-sides, only 14 song album, and they actually DID put out the live show material as a single (Chinese).
Obviously things didn't go to plan. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. You think Axl planned for Bucket to leave the band? You think Axl planned on having more than half the album leak? How about Robin's departure just prior to the album being released, was that part of the master plan as well?
These things happened, and thus plans were changed.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: So where does GN'R stand right now and what is the current news?
You said Axl didn't backtrack. Axl has backtracked countless times. One day it's five albums worth, another it's a trilogy, another it's a double, another it's "we're just focusing on one". Etc.
The information is everywhere. You choose to ignore it.
Plans change, and I think Axl has chosen to start giving less detail because when he is specific then if a plan changes he gets called a liar.
Axl had 70 song ideas in 1999. Out of those:
- some he may have discarded as no longer good.
- some he may have finished and be hoarding for whatever reason
- some may be unfinished
- some may have become other songs or have been blended into other songs.
So yes the original 3 album plans came from Axl. But that plan was a long time ago. And as the current plan - to release 1 album through a best buy exclusive firmed up - he calmed talk down of 3 albums.
In the chats he confirmed that other songs exist, and hinted that there is at least a second album worth of songs he'd consider releasing within a reasonable distance of the first.
Frankly I don't see any problem with what he's said. To me it's completely consistant if you take into account that obviously when working on material for years on end both that that material will change (number of songs) and the business enviorment will change (record industry) etc.
Going back to the radio interview. I see Axlin08's remark about the industry not supporting this GNR, and I'd agree that's likely to be a battle Axl has faced, but I also got the impression Axl was talking about the industry in general and the contracts that get signed now (then) vs prior contracts.
I think the implication (may be wrong) was that labels didn't want to spend money to help established bands, because it would cost them more due to the various deals those bands have. But pushing a new band, they can sign up an artist on a contract much more favourable to the record label, force them to do things on the cheap (no expensive UYI style clips) etc - basicly use them up for a first album then dump them and move onto the next one - before the artists get market power. Whereas when dealing with a band like Axl and GNR at that level - well - it's harder as the record company will have to do more to please the artist - and that translates to them not wanting to do it.
Think of it like this. If you are a record company. Who is going to be easier to bully around. My band here in small time melbourne or u2??
Again - that's just my understanding of that interview based on other stuff i've read around about the industry - may be totally putting words in axl's mouth there, might not at all be what he ment I dunno - just a throught.
Re: So where does GN'R stand right now and what is the current news?
Obviously things didn't go to plan. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. You think Axl planned for Bucket to leave the band? You think Axl planned on having more than half the album leak? How about Robin's departure just prior to the album being released, was that part of the master plan as well?
These things happened, and thus plans were changed.
After those comments, he had a two year window to do something before Bucket bailed(two album releases). He had a four year window to do something before leaks started happening. He had six years to do something before Finck bailed.
Eventually the "plans change" excuse stops being a viable excuse.
Re: So where does GN'R stand right now and what is the current news?
Well, as Axl said back in his interview with Kurt Loder following the 2002 VMA performance, nothing like this had ever been done before. And for good reason, it's a nearly impossible task. To soldier on with a hugely successful band and replace all the parts within and surrounding the band. I think it probably turned out even more difficult than Axl imagined. It's easy to complain that things took too long and we were misled, but I'm sure we don't know the half of it.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: So where does GN'R stand right now and what is the current news?
Actually you mentioned the lie within your own post.
The fact that the albums were supposed to be released on varying plans, as far back as 2002, if not 1999, and there were no albums followed by touring, including CD...
He backtracked. It didn't happen. And no, 2001-02 & 2006-07 were not the "CD World Tour". They were cash grabs.
That's not a lie.
It is something he was intending to have happen and it didn't end up comming to pass.
There's tons of stuff that happeneed in between, including not only issues within in the band, but issues within the market and whatever else.
I'm not saying that it should stop him releasing an album overall, as plenty of artists do, but its reasonable that these events should cause a change of plan.
Over 10 years things didn't go as he expected, is he a liar because of that? Should he be held accountable and forced to impliment an ancient plan? Is a 17yo accountable for not becoming a fireman and a liar because he thought that's what he'd want to do as an adult at 7 but then he grew up to be better at math than lifting dudes?
Things change. My only wish was that the fans should be updated more often when the plans change.
I think it's positivie that Axl shut down baz's talk that the album would be bigger than it is. Anything with current information is good.
Now i think we're in a catch 22. Maybe Axl doesn't update us much because if he says somethign he's planning (better video, 2nd album evnetually) and then it doesn't come to pass we call him a liar and get pissy. Yet I also think some of why that happens is lack of info for the fans - we end up obsessing about old interviews and so on and then get disapointed when stuff doesn't happen and we don't understand why or how things have changed.
Anyway. Axl isn't a liar in my opinion.
Re: So where does GN'R stand right now and what is the current news?
That's been my point all along, you can criticize Axl for many things and you can question what he's said and done over the years. But I don't think it's fair to call him a liar because things didn't go as he planned. It's not like he knew the album was going to take 10 years to come out but in the meantime he came out with all these stories just to string us along. Or do some people actually believe that?
Re: So where does GN'R stand right now and what is the current news?
My opinion is actually a combo of both.
I don't think he ever thought this would turn into the legendary clusterfuck it became.
At the same time, I do believe he consciously went out and blew smoke up our ass (chats anyone?) in order to salvage situations, at times he knew nothng was on the horizon.
It's only smart business. Don't let your customer-base cease to exist. Axl pushes it right to the edge, before it disappears, then he comes out and does something to keep it on life support, then vanishes until it goes code blue again.
Re: So where does GN'R stand right now and what is the current news?
I don't doubt we were strung along to an extent. I mean, why else would we have stuck around so long if we weren't given any reason to? But I don't think Axl came up with any wild ideas that he had absolutely no intention of trying out, just to keep us interested.
Re: So where does GN'R stand right now and what is the current news?
My opinion is actually a combo of both.
I don't think he ever thought this would turn into the legendary clusterfuck it became.
At the same time, I do believe he consciously went out and blew smoke up our ass (chats anyone?) in order to salvage situations, at times he knew nothng was on the horizon.
It's only smart business. Don't let your customer-base cease to exist. Axl pushes it right to the edge, before it disappears, then he comes out and does something to keep it on life support, then vanishes until it goes code blue again.
which, in the end, RIGHT NOW, still attracts me to him as an artist. 
