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Re: Does anyone else get the impression that Axl is trying to re-build ...
Another thing I wanted to say about this is I think it does a disservice to fortus. I agree with the first half of your statement, he's a fantastic guitarist and a great live peformer.
But to use him to insult others is kind of what makes people ingnore his actual abilites and dislike him and that's a shame.
Yeah, I can see how it reads like that, but it wasn't my intention - just that I happened to prefer his stage performance over (pre-pacemaker btw) Slash.
But in my head because of the whole AFD/Lies/UYI stuff Slash is already on a kind of pedestal just for his playing, even if he went on and make Steven Hawking look like a breakdancer, and that's context that I didn't manage to get across in my post.
Slash's intro on Ain't It Fun alone is so moving I sometimes can't even listen to it, no other guitarist made me feel that way ever.
Long story short I love all incarnations of GnR, just that some stuff I like better - loved Adler's manic-lion look on the Ritz 88 video for example, though I don't think technically he could hold a candle to subsequent drummers.:thumbup:
None of the old band (or any people who've joined and left since) have suffered career-wise (or financially afaik) for being involved in GnR, so while it;s probably disappointing if a player you like leaves, I don't understand any need to hate their replacemtns, all of who are equally talented and bringing something of value to the band.
- Mikkamakka
- Rep: 217
Re: Does anyone else get the impression that Axl is trying to re-build ...
I didn't hate Bucket cause he was talented. GN'R worthy player. (Or to be correct: Nu-GN'R wasn't BH worthy.) I don't hate BBF: he can play (although he isn't unique) and very fan-friendly. I don't hate Robin, although I think he's not a GN'R-caliber guitarist. I don't hate Fortus - but hey, the "I don't understand any need to hate their replacemtns, all of who are equally talented and bringing something of value to the band" is not true at all. Fortus is 40-something and I can't recall a song he wrote or a song where he added anything worthy. He plays other people's stuff with huge jumps. That's not enough to say he's in the same league with Slash. He's in the same band (to be correct: he's in the band that shares the same name). That's it. Just because Axl Rose hired his 492378th player, I don't need be a fan of the guy. To tell the truth I'm not a fan of any guy in the current line-up (except Axl). They mean nothing to me. (Before anyone asks: I'm no fan of Dave Kushner or Matt Sorum either.)
- TheSundanceKid
- Rep: 30
Re: Does anyone else get the impression that Axl is trying to re-build ...
I just think it is pathetic.
Two lead guitarists gone.
I wish him well, but, I am not interested in seeing a new new new gnr without Robin Finck. Watching them without Buckethead was painful as is.
Luckily I got Izzy Stradlin that night, tragically it came with Kid Rock as well...
Anyways, I am glad I got into newer and far superior music.
Re: Does anyone else get the impression that Axl is trying to re-build ...
My problem with the band - when comparing the evolution from the RIR3 lineup to the present day - is that players with distinct personalities and sound have gradually been replaced by more clean-cut people, many of whom are described as "better fits" to the old material. Frank plays the AFD stuff better than Brain, Ron's more approachable than Bucket, etc. To me, what's alarming in the situation is that key writers of the CD material have been escorted out one after another, and have been replaced by more serviceable members of an AFD cover band. Technically great players, capable of replicating the sound of yesteryear. But how many of them wrote the album they're supposed to be touring behind?
Aside Axl - Tommy, Pitman and Dizzy. I was ready to live with the revolving lineup back in the day simply because in between '97-'00, the band was actually building up to be greater than the sum of its parts. Particularly the hiring of Bucket and re-hiring of Robin came out excellent, as their combined sound, like it or not, was something you couldn't gotten in any other band. The 2001 band simply had an amazing depth into their soundscape; sure, they probably fell on their asses on more than one occassion, but they were an extremely ambitious combination of people and Axl was definitely giving out the signal that he was out to reinvent himself and people can either live or leave it.
It'd be interesting to know how Paul Huge took the heat generated by the press; Slash and others were quick to condemn him specifically, as they sometimes felt the need to cut Axl some slack. Unfortunately, blaming Paul turned out to be the roundabout way to blame Axl. Since Paul was apparently a private chappy, talking to the press and "setting the record straight" was probably the last thing on his mind. All he could've done then, was to keep a low profile and shoulder some of the blame in the same way as Axl himself dealt with a lot of it. It's telling that Axl's 2002 tour press release went into a verbose defense of Paul. Some of that shit must've really stung.
By 2002, they were already turning into an AFD cover band. Hell, their standard setlist was the re-recorded AFD (with Patience & YCBM) along with mandatory November Rain and the safe-choice covers LALD and KOHD. Three "new" songs - CD, Maddy and The Blues. Would it had killed them to throw in OMG, a few more inventive covers (like Sailing from '06?) or a few new things from the back catalogue? Whatever gung-ho aspirations Axl'd had the previous year, they'd painfully sizzled out by the time he donned those ridiculous jerseys and tried to convince people he was in on the jokes made about his weight.
Since 2006, they've sounded more cohesive and have taken various steps to make the overall stage production go by smoothly, I'll give them that. But Robin and Brain now gone takes another chunk away of the overall talent factor, as well as the musical quirkiness which contributed to the goose-stepping awkwardness of CD. The '09 band couldn't produce an album like that in a million years - Ashba, Fortus and Frank, they're better fits to AFD. You can't ask those guys to go into the lengths of Bucket, Brain and Robin in terms of crazy ideas - they just don't have it in them.
The main reason I'm pissed about all this is because I know for a fact the RIR3 would've blown audiences away had Axl played, say, ten songs out of the album back then. You want to reunite the most talented lineup of GNR ever, forget about Slash.
Re: Does anyone else get the impression that Axl is trying to re-build ...
You obviously don't get it. Nobody cares about who is "the most talented lineup of GnR ever" because a) not everybody agrees on what lineup that is; and b) people want the GnR they know, not the GnR that a few people think was better. There will never, never, NEVER be a groundswell of support of the 2002 lineup. Ever. It won't happen. But there will always be people that want AFD/UYI GnR back no matter how talented of a lineup Axl could put together. Those are the facts and no amount of playing 10 songs off of an album that flopped in a major way could have changed that.
Re: Does anyone else get the impression that Axl is trying to re-build ...
You obviously don't get it.
Get what? That a great many people pushing 50 want to re-live their youth by pretending an obsolete lineup with obsolete musical style is somehow as valid as it was 20 years ago?
I give you that. It's really a shame when that happens.
Reunions suck, mostly, because they can certainly devalue the music and legacy by giving old men that one easy payday after years of being discouraged by flopping solo records and efforts to evolve, much due to them getting trapped into the very image that made them big.
not everybody agrees on what lineup that is
Definitely not. Called opinions. You want to tout the AFD lineup, don't let me stop you.
There will never, never, NEVER be a groundswell of support of the 2002 lineup.
Well, I was talking about the 2001 lineup, but in case you were too eager to give me a reality check, I might as well cave in and spell it out for your perusal:
I obviously don't see the 2001 lineup reuniting.
Would I take it over any other lineup in GNR history? In a heartbeat.
Is it my decision? Nope.
Would an AFD/UYI lineup have more mass appeal? Definitely.
But why should I have an opinion in line with Joe Q Public? A reunion of whatever sort isn't happening in the foreseeable future. Slash isn't coming back. Axl will do as he pleases.
Are you in for killing the discussion by telling me I have a false opinion?
Re: Does anyone else get the impression that Axl is trying to re-build ...
Funny. Pick whatever non AFD/UYI lineup you want, the answer is still the same. You're entitled to whatever opinion you want, but you're wasting your time being pissed about something that all of 50 people in the world care about.
You claim to know "for a fact" that RIR3 (lineup) would have "blown audiences away had Axl played, say, ten songs out of the album back then" - this is where your "opinion" loses all credibility. How you know this is beyond me, but even if that's true (it isn't, but I'll play along), what makes you think anybody would want that band over the real band? Fake bands have never worked. What in the world would make you think that this one - 10 years after the real band's last release of original music - would take the world by storm?
I know what you meant was you think it would have blown audiences away. Considering how poor their tour went, I'm not really sure how you can even make that claim. Nobody was interested. Sure, there are a few BH worship types here that want to think a 2002 release would have been more successful (and maybe it would have been slightly more successful), but the public reaction to BH wasn't a positive one, nor was the reaction to Finck. People seem to forget that when they think back to what they consider to be the "glory days" of 2000 - 2002.
