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Re: Remember this document?
well 06 was a tour with the promise of an album part way through, so in that case it was a failure cuz the promise of the album never came to fruition, to others it was a failure because no new material was played,
the show i went to was good i enjoyed it
Axl's track record shows that he is a loose cannon, cancels shows on a whim and doesnt give a rats ass about the fans...and the general idea going around now is that the tours have been cash grabs and if there is no money there is no show....is that true, probably not, but how can you make someone believe otherwise
things have snowballed to the state we are at now, i dunno if it can be fixed 
Re: Remember this document?
buzzsaw wrote:The lack of ticket sales wasn't a rumor. They blocked off large sections of mid size arenas and called the shows sell outs. russ wouldn't be saying that they blocked off the upper deck in Detroit if it didn't happen. That wasn't an isolated incident. The shows that were cancelled early in the tour were due to ticket sales. The supposed album cancellations were because of lack of ticket sales. They couldn't even give tickets away or sell them at a huge discount to fill some of the places they played. The Maine show was because of poor ticket sales no matter what a fire marshall did or didn't say. The few shows that sold well were never cancelled, yet cancellations happend at a lot of shows that weren't selling well. You can't possbily think that is coincidental.
I was asking for a confirm from Russ if they played Detroit, I was a little unsure of his statement if that was fact or not.
Can you tell me the shows they blocked off and called them sell outs, I am curious as to the shows you are talking about, I'll stand corrected if you tell me shows they did this at.
Where was it reported that show were cancelled due to ticket sales early in the tour?
The Maine show was an isolated incident and still remains a controversy.
It wasn't like there were over like 15 shows cancelled in 06, the maine show, another show due to Axl having strep throat or something and the shows in Cali in Jan, what other shows were cancelled in 06?
I am not trying to bust your chops, just give me a little more proof of it and I'll stand corrected because I don't remember show after show being cancelled in 06.
There was a thread at the old site that went into some detail about it if I remember correctly. I don't care enough to do the research, but I know what I read and it wasn't disputed at the time. We know nothing has come from the GnR camp to change what was accepted as fact then.
The Nashville show was cancelled. I know others were cancelled, but quite honestly I didn't care, so i don't remember all of the specifics anymore.
Re: Remember this document?
Buzz, whatever you read certainly WAS NEVER ACCEPTED AS FACT. There are no facts in this sordid scenario. The fact is Gnr never claimed sold out shows in US venues where the upper levels were closed off. NEVER. They may have told a few white lies about why they cancelled a few shows, but you cannot prove that it was purely because of sales. Let's face it, they should not have been touring yet in those small market cities-shitty planning by shitty management. I am 99% certain that the gross sales figures per night for the 2006 US tour were around $500,000 at an average ticket price of $59. They averaged about 8500 per show which is the same as what they averaged on the 2002 US tour. Although I don't have a link to the site where I got that-either pollstar or billboard, I have been down this road so many times before that I have the numbers memorized. 8500 per show in today's climate is fairly good, obviously not great, but good.
Anyhow, it certainly isn't where Axl wants to be as this would be the stratosphere he should be in....2006 best selling tours-I believe these figures are from worlwide shows
http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/yearend/ … _tours.jsp
and here is thread from htgth with some numbers for 2006 us tour-North America numbers-Pollstar
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/boar … ic=42078.0
I am not even mentioning the successful European tour of 2006 and the successful 2007 tour. Plus, in 2006, they headlined multiple large festivals where they definitely would have been paid big bucks. These tours served three purposes...
1. To generate income to pay band salaries
2. To generate income to pay the recording costs that the band had to incur since being cut off by the record company in 2004.
3. To promote the newest version of the New band.:haha:
overall, the touring of 2006 and 2007 was a success. Some people over inflate the success, but most people these days underestimate the success and criticize because they are pissed off that they didn't release an album or they want a reunion or whatever their personal agenda is. :wtf:
Re: Remember this document?
Over the same amount of shows, who sold more tickets VR or Guns N' Roses.... ?
Yet, I didn't here anyone calling VRs tour a failure.
Re: Remember this document?
Over the same amount of shows, who sold more tickets VR or Guns N' Roses.... ?
Yet, I didn't here anyone calling VRs tour a failure.
VR was never the biggest band in the world. If you're going to be Guns N' Roses, then you need to be Guns N' Roses and accept the expectations that go along with that. If you're going to kind of be Guns N' Roses and call mediocre at best tours a success, then it's time to stop being Guns N' Roses.
Gas - I read through both my posts and neither one even used the word fact. Here is a fact though: Pollstar is not an accurate representation of the success of a tour. Read what Pollstar is.
The US tour attendance was sparce, shows were cancelled because not enough people were going, tickets were sold at a discount and given away at the shows that weren't cancelled, yet still they couldn't "sell' out a show they were giving tickets away for. If you call that success, you need to raise your standards just a little bit. russ loves the new band, but he can admit what happened in a a decent size market. Chicago was just as bad. They weren't alone. One of the shows that was cancelled sold so few tickets that people were allowed to trade those tickets for a show at another venue. I guess there weren't a lot of tickets sold there either if they could accomodate an entire other show's tickets. But don't let the details get in the way of a good story about a "successful" tour.
Re: Remember this document?
AtariLegend wrote:Over the same amount of shows, who sold more tickets VR or Guns N' Roses.... ?
Yet, I didn't here anyone calling VRs tour a failure.
VR was never the biggest band in the world. If you're going to be Guns N' Roses, then you need to be Guns N' Roses and accept the expectations that go along with that.
Being an outspoken Slash fan, I thought you would've mentioned that to alot of the people that didn't go, it was just Axl Rose, not Guns N' Roses with Slash...
Thus that pretty much lowers the idea of what good ticket sales is, especially considering they never put out a record, yet still sold many more tickets than many more bands who did.
UYI style ticket sales were never going to happen. I hope they do in future, but given all the excuses the sales were not a failure.
Re: Remember this document?
buzzsaw wrote:AtariLegend wrote:Over the same amount of shows, who sold more tickets VR or Guns N' Roses.... ?
Yet, I didn't here anyone calling VRs tour a failure.
VR was never the biggest band in the world. If you're going to be Guns N' Roses, then you need to be Guns N' Roses and accept the expectations that go along with that.
Being an outspoken Slash fan, I thought you would've mentioned that to alot of the people that didn't go, it was just Axl Rose, not Guns N' Roses with Slash...
Thus that pretty much lowers the idea of what good ticket sales is, especially considering they never put out a record, yet still sold many more tickets than many more bands who did.
UYI style ticket sales were never going to happen. I hope they do in future, but given all the excuses the sales were not a failure.
I don't have to mention that. While not everybody knows that today, anybody that was going to buy a ticket here in the US at least should know Slash isn't there. Sure, that lowers expectations, but again, if you're going to be Guns N' Roses, you have to actually be Guns N' Roses. You can't have it both ways. You (not you specifically, you fans of the new band) say to accept the band as GnR, but at the same time, you're basically admitting it's not really GnR so we have to lower expectations. Either it is or isn't really Guns N' Roses.
Re: Remember this document?
Buzz-your quote,
"We know nothing has come from the GnR camp to change what was accepted as fact then."
the post right before mine!
I said the tour was a moderate success, not great and certainly not to the level of the old Gnr-see first link which is where the original band would be. Chicago sold around 10,000 tickets-not bad for no record and an entirely new band. Please read my entire post again and look at what I actually said this time. 8500 per night is not bad, cancellations and all. Just my opinion. That is objective, quantifiable data, something which you don't have Buzz. I know they are on shaky ground in the US-no doubt. But, the tour was just planned very poorly. They should have been playing 5000 seat theatres and only a few arena shows in major markets. It all goes back to poor management in my opinion.
I am just trying to see the good (there is still a new Gnr in tact-we think), the bad (the constant white lies we are given), and the ugly (no fucking album!!!!!).:butt:
Re: Remember this document?
How many of those tickets were sold at full price? They couldn't fill places GIVING the tickets away. that's nothing short of BAD.
I didn't say anything was a fact, I said it was accepted as fact because as that thread indicated, the data supported poor sales. And just because the old site is down and I cannot pull the data that others provided (I don't care enough to bother with the research) doesn't mean it wasn't there and much more detailed than the little bit of information (from the useless pollstar no less) that you've provided.
While I don't admire the new band, I don't hate them either. They haven't done anything that I see as worth admiring yet, so the jury is still out. It's cool that people want to be positive, but when the positive gets to the point of using bad data to support an unsuccessful tour as being successful, something needs to be said. It is what it is. I didn't create the mess, I don't like the mess, but that is exactly what it is no matter how many times people try to put some sort of positive spin on it.
"I don't remember them cancelling a lot of shows" - that's because you don't want to remember it
"I don't think they played to half filled arenas" - that's because they went out of the way to make it look like arenas were full when they weren't even close
"pollstar says they were the biggest tour of "06" - what pollster measures isn't the success of a tour
It's almost like people are supressing bad memories or rationalizing. It's bad people. There is no good right now. The only thing close to good is that Axl Rose is still alive, which means there's hope.
