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Re: Bush reputation starting to rebound
misterID wrote:It also kind of pisses me off that all the Regan revisionist have pretty much brainwashed everyone into forgetting about the recession, massive debt, and general fuck up he caused
WHAT? Who forgot about the recession? He got us out of the biggest recession since the Great Depression. Technically he got us out of two recessions. Had Carter won a second term, we'd all be speaking Russian or Chinese right now.
The massive debt(3 trillion) on Reagan's watch is forgivable simply because the majority of it went towards defense in the final days of the Cold War. His strategy was to outspend them and negotiate while holding ALL the cards. That took money, and LOTS of it.
Take away his defense spending, the country would have pretty much been running surpluses after 83. The booming economy allowed for the debt and deficits to continue without consequence.
That 3 trillion dollar war machine that Bush and Clinton got to play around with while strutting on the world stage was Reagan's war machine. Hell, it's still Reagan's as the majority of its high tech weapons systems were created on his watch.
If any revisionism goes on, its downplaying his achievements.
*pukes*
The Carter thing is just ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. Speaking Russian and Chinese...:rolleyes:
Carter appointed Paul Volcker as head of the Federal Reserve, who Reagan kept on after he was in office, and it was Carter and Volcker's policies that helped the economy, even though they knew in the short term we'd take a big economic down turn... During his relection campaign no less. Reagan just went along with Carter's plan.
But he fucked it up with "Trickledown Economics" which sent us into another deep recession. And yes, add to that his ridiculous military spending.
Reagan was also the guy who passed the massive and horrible amnesty bill, increased the size of the federal government by 90%, exploded the deficit, started the War On Drugs, funded the Contras, sold missiles to Iran, gave assistance to Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden, did hardly nothing to help stop the spread of AIDS when he had the chance and was one of the worst presidents when it came to the enviorment. He wanted to eliminate the departments of Energy and Education, and to scale back Social Security and Medicaid, but he couldn't.
He was a really great speaker. What is forgotten, though, is that he negotiated with the Soviets when no republican wanted him to and he saved Social Security by instituting a large payroll tax, among other taxes revisionsit like to ignore. On top of that, he got some of the price controls that Carter wanted but Congress wouldn't give him.
Re: Bush reputation starting to rebound
I certainly remember the idiocy surrounding that disaster. The mayor of New Orleans is lucky he wasn't lynched. Had this happened in the 1800s, he would have been swinging from a tree in the french quarter.
Its times like that where the country is supposed to stand together and face the crisis at hand. We didn't. Once again, this goes back to his lack of skills at communicating. That mayor had the audacity to declare martial law. Bush should have flown in there and slapped him in the face.
When incidents like Katrina, 9/11, OKC Bombing, Challenger disaster,etc. happen, last thing on our minds should be the size of the government, regardless of which side of the aisle everyone is on.
Unfortunately ego's get involved, and no one wants their authority trampled on. I also remember Nagin (NO Mayor) telling everyone on TV how he was gonna get in Bush's face when Bush got down there, and when Bush showed up, it was "Mr. President this and Mr. President that", and Bush let Nagin shower in his Presidential trailer-cade or whatever the hell, and suddenly Bush was just the milk of human kindness.
Everyone wants their authority respected in those situations, and it's beyond gay, and usually doesn't get help to those who need it.
Trust me, i've been through a hurricane. A real disaster. I've been at ground zero after one, where people are without power, displaced, hungry, dead, etc. I've lived it, and I remember going through the same shit that went on with Katrina, before Katrina ever existed. The only cats that WERE helping was FEMA, the American Red Cross. But there were city, county, and state officials that literally denied help to those in need, food to those in need, water to those in need, because FEMA & the Red Cross weren't going through proper channels. And then when they did, the city, county & state officials made sure their buddies got the stuff first, then seconds, then thirds, and then everyone else. I've seen this happen. These are the stories you don't hear when everyone gets all loving, and unified.
I'd bet my left nut the same shit happened in Katrina.
Re: Bush reputation starting to rebound
True, but saying no to homes for the disadvantaged, is like robbing someone at gunpoint in politics.
There are issues you never go up against, even if you are the majority in the Congress. The poor, the young, the minorities, and the education system. Never ever fight any bill in those categories, because the shit storm that will rain down on you will be epic.
Yes, but for them to retroactively claim they were against it, while they had total control of the House is disingenuous at best.
Re: Bush reputation starting to rebound
Carter appointed Paul Volcker as head of the Federal Reserve, who Reagan kept on after he was in office, and it was Carter and Volcker's policies that helped the economy, even though they knew in the short term we'd take a big economic down turn... During his relection campaign no less. Reagan just went along with Carter's plan.
But he fucked it up with "Trickledown Economics" which sent us into another deep recession.
So Carter is the reason for the 80s boom but Reagan prevented a boom with "trickle down economics"?? 
That second recession was predicted by the way. They knew it was a "correction" and then we were gonna be swimming in peaches and cream. That's exactly what ended up happening.
He didn't "fuck up" with his economic policy. It was a HUGE factor in getting us out of the hole.
I loved that old Reagan quote about that.....
"When you knew it was working is when they stopped calling it Reaganomics". 
I do agree that Volker(and all Fed Chairmen) never get enough credit or blame. Greenspan played a big role in the 90s boom but all praise is usually aimed at Clinton.
I'll take Reagan's "rendezvous with destiny" over Carter's "malaise" any day of the week.
Carter seems like a genuinely likable guy, but he wasn't presidential material. His own party had major issues with him, and democrats voted for Reagan in droves.
Had no idea you were a Carter nutswinger(pun intended). If you ever plan a trip to Iran, throw your passport out the window and see how long it takes Carter to come pick you up.
assistance to Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden, did hardly nothing to help stop the spread of AIDS
It was the Cold War for gods sake. We were supporting Iraq in its conflict with Iran, and was basically a "enemy of my enemy is my friend" type of situation. Reagan provided assistance to Bin Laden? Don't you mean Carter? He's the one who decided to turn the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan into a proxy war. Like you said, Reagan just "went along with Carter's plan".
You're not being fair to either of them by insinuating they supported Bin Laden. It was a completely different situation and mentioning Bin Laden makes it sound like we were funding a terrorist cell.
As far as the AIDS thing, Reagan admits in his book that not tackling that crisis was his biggest regret as president. His advisers downplayed the situation.
Interesting that if Reagan's Amnesty law was actually enforced, it would obliterate the current crisis and would free up jobs for actual Americans.
edit: I meant the illegal immigrant situation, not the entire economic disaster.
Re: Bush reputation starting to rebound
"Reaganomics" works so well that every time its implemented... Its sends us into a recession!
Yes, just like Bush, we have a very good economy over a short period of time and then it all catches up to us.
I'm not a huge Carter supporter. But he was ahead of his time on telling people to conserve on energy (the whole Maliase thing) and he was laughed at. He and Nixon wanted energy bills to help get us off forgien oil. Hasn't happened yet.
But we did support terrorist cells, especially in Latin America, because Reagan didn't want to get his hands dirty by using our military. Check his record on Human Rights...
And Carter was the one who got the Hostages out of Iran and Reagan gets credit for it.
The amnesty law was a huge mistake. And I'm not getting to the immigration can of worms. Instead of implimenting a new law, if we actually enforced the ones we have, the problem would be solved, including the guest worker program...
Re: Bush reputation starting to rebound
Carter seems like a genuinely likable guy, but he wasn't presidential material.
Read a book about Secret Service agents spilling the beans on their former bosses in the White House.
Most surprising to me was Lyndon B. Johnson insane appetite for women. Would have made Clinton blush. He also had a gigantic penis which he used as much as he could.
Carter though, was reported of being quite an annoying guy. He would show up with his briefcase really fucking early, to show the press he worked hard, then go into Office and take a nap. That surprised me as well. He also treated his agents badly. At one time, his mother came out to the agents with dinner during a holiday, telling them to eat but not to tell Jimmy she gave them food.
The Bush's came out in the book as better than I would have thought. Especially their wives were reportedly fantastic people, all-round friendly and nice to be around. Last George had a problem talking to the press, and always froze up completely making him out worse than he really was.
Clinton was the most charismatic, and got a kick out of meeting his "fans". He could just decide to stroll up to any crowd and start talking, shaking hands. An agents nightmare. Clinton also seemed to be the smartest of them, judging by what I read. Kennedy, too, was charismatic and a fun guy to hang with, also with a love for women, but surprisingly not as much as Johnson.
Al Gore reportedly pointed his finger to an agent saying "work hard, so you won't end up like him", talking to his offspring.
Not much on Obama as the book came out just after he took Office, but he still smokes. Both him and Michelle are supposed to be very, very nice people.
Re: Bush reputation starting to rebound
On a personal level, i've never heard one bad thing about Dubya, and almost universally Laura Bush has been praised.
They supposedly used to be really down-to-earth, everyday type's when they threw weekend summits for diplomats and presidents during his administration.
I mean, I kind of expect that from Obama, because of he and Michelle's "American Dream" type background. But I assumed George & Laura would have this "big oil", J.R. & Sue Ellen thing going on, and there was none of that.
