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Re: Chinese Democracy.... Starts Now?
russtcb wrote:bigbri wrote:A couple years ago, this board would have been jumping with news like this. Shows you how jaded/uninterested we are.
This just isn't what I consider "news", that's why I'm not jumping on it.
Fine, don't consider it news. Rolling Stone is not so low on the totem pole that they have to "google HTGTH" to find news. That's a fucking ridiculous theory. They don't make shit up no matter how far they've fallen. They employ real reporters with real journalism experience. Sometimes you guys have no freakin' clue how the media works, I swear. I'm in it, I know.
Most likely they got a tip from someone at the record label or maybe someone in the GNR camp trying to deflect attention from the fact that CD is not out.
If they wanted to make up news about GNR, why not promote it instead of burying it on a news briefs column. I hate to break it to ya, but GNR isn't gonna help them sell copies anymore.
the article is from antimusic....and rollingstone got it from there and the quote from the orig article says
(antiMusic)We don't know how much stock to put into third or fourth generation rumors
so i mean they even just say it to say something....but you're right bigbri...i'm not in journalism so i dont know how it works but 3rd or 4th generation....so they heard it from someone who heard it from someone who may have heard it from someone....things get pretty fucked up in the retelling thats all i'm sayin' 
i'd love this to be true, and to believe that only one last discussion of how much promotion will there be is holding this album up, but man for such an anticipated album more than half the sales figures are gonna be cuz the fucking thing is finally out...how much marketing really is gonna need to be done...i mean seriously now
- A Private Eye
- Rep: 77
Re: Chinese Democracy.... Starts Now?
i'd love this to be true, and to believe that only one last discussion of how much promotion will there be is holding this album up, but man for such an anticipated album more than half the sales figures are gonna be cuz the fucking thing is finally out...how much marketing really is gonna need to be done...i mean seriously now
It's a good point, CD is a long running joke in most music magazines, the start of every year they make a joke about it, but you can bet they'll be all over it if it ever comes out. It's often said the media don't care about CD anymore and I don't necessarily agree, they reported all they could over the last 10 years, no point covering the same stuff again, it's not that they don't care imo and more that they've nothing left to say about it until it comes out. Anybody who follows music with more than the vaguest of interests knows a bit about CD, even if it's just that it's a decade in the making type of thing, that sort of stuff causes interest. Couple that with the GNR name and I think there's a fair few people going to be very curious about this album all achieved with minimal marketing costs. Sadly in this day and age curiosity translates into downloads not album sales 
Re: Chinese Democracy.... Starts Now?
Fine, don't consider it news. Rolling Stone is not so low on the totem pole that they have to "google HTGTH" to find news. That's a fucking ridiculous theory. They don't make shit up no matter how far they've fallen. They employ real reporters with real journalism experience. Sometimes you guys have no freakin' clue how the media works, I swear..
I'm the one who came up with the "ridiculous" Googling GnR & coming across HTGTH theory... but in my defense I didn't see the RS link, just the one to the website antimusic.com. Not trying to bash the site, but the writers there DO have to come up with new stories every day in the music world. So the theory isn't that far-fetched. It's no different then sports rumors that blow up every now & then & make national headlines or reach the national public. Also, what Neemo said could be correct, a writer for a smaller blog came across it that way, then the RS web-writer came across it or heard it word of mouth from someone. Notice how they did not state "An unnamed source" or "A record company executive says".
Regardless, this is stupid, this thread can linger around & die for all I care. It's that same shit for the third year in a row. Potential release with no sources or facts. Why don't they put the picture of Axl with Korn from January 2006 on there too.
- Mikkamakka
- Rep: 217
Re: Chinese Democracy.... Starts Now?
i checked HTGTH for discussion on this and Jarmo brought up a valid point (which leads me to believe there's possibly something to this rumour)... Who pays for it all?
On one hand, labels want to promote without spending money (which doesn't work) as there's little to no chance to turn a profit in the record industry. Artists, on the other hand, want as much money alloted to them as possible, so that they can get their names out there and be successful. While the end result may be increased record sales, it could also decrease profit significantly.
In the end, the best way to promote the album is through free media. Allow magazines and newspapers to write reviews, make television appearances (late night TV, anyone?), and get the name out there that way. Like it or not, Slash has done more free promotion for this band than anyone by making appearances at geek conventions and appearing in video games. As mentioned above, the only way to get people to buy this album is to shove it down the public's throat. That's done through free promotion using the media, not billboard ads or TV commercials.
It's very hard to be everywhere in the media when Axl doesn't do interviews and the band members are not allowed to talk about anything but their side projects. Besides the risk of CD Axl must be scared as hell to talk about the past 15 years.
On the other hand I understand the label that they don't wanna lose more money by investing into the marketing campaign but without spending a lot the album will tank. It's not the 70s anymore, an album can be any good, it'll tank without massive promotion.
Anyway, if it's true that it's good news and we're closer to getting the album than ever. Marketing plans can be worked out in some months once the album was done, handled and accepted by the record company.
Re: Chinese Democracy.... Starts Now?
But I think you underestimate GN'R's worldwide appeal.
I think you're overestimating their appeal.
Not to start a new vs old or "this isn't GNR" debate, but this isn't the GNR that sold all those albums and put asses in seats at all those stadiums. Just because they tour on the classics in arenas means nothing regarding potential sales of their own product.
Remember--this lineup has sold ZERO albums. The only album to come out during their era was a GH album of the old band.
The ONLY thing done in the post Slash era that was released is Oh My God, and I don't think I need to remind everyone how that went over with the media and the public.
I still cant believe people have such high expectations for this. Its probably going to be a damn good album, but its not going to set the charts on fire.
Great posts in this thread, but I wanted to comment on the appeal thing.
Re: Chinese Democracy.... Starts Now?
What sucks is that evidently everyone from the top down is also realizing it now also.
Thats what worries me concerning the possibility of it never being released. As the years go by with nothing, it has allowed everyone involved, whether it be Axl or the head honchos at Uni, to see that nothing positive can be achieved by releasing this record. Lets look at a few of the goals this album has had over the years. Goals mentioned by the man himself during various time frames.....
Bury the old band- not a fucking chance. ship sailed on that vision about a decade ago.
Silence the "nay sayers"- how? By becoming a pop culture joke for a decade or more before release? ship sailed on this vision years ago as well.
Show he could do it without the old band- really? You did 5 albums with the old band in a 6 year period, but one song from 95-08 and we're still waiting. He's the only AFD member to not release an album.
Move the band forward- REO Speedwagon power ballads? Grunge with shredding and synth? Prodigy style techno shit? Wake up....its the early 80's and mid 90's.
The "trilogy vision"- delusions. Beta or someone else close to him who is on his payroll probably suggested this fantasy and he went along with it. When you cant get up enough courage to release one album, where does the courage come to release three? The emperor has no clothes.....
Lets look at a few items that will concern Uni...
Can it sell millions of copies? Of course not. Only a handful of albums sell millions of copies in this era, and this probably wont be one of them. I'm sure they've "crunched the numbers" over at Uni headquarters, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out its gonna have trouble mining for gold.
The value of the GNR name- This is the biggest mystery of all, and it will be answered the first week of CD release. A scary proposition for all involved. If CD tanks, the value drops even more because it taints the legacy. Bad legacy= lower sales of the old albums and less demand(and money) for a reunion. A GH vol. 2 would also feel the sting in a post CD era. The brand will have been diluted even more.
Fan reaction- I'm not talking about 5 thousand nerds spread out over a few websites. We're talking Joe and Jill public here. Joe and Jill weren't too impressed with Oh My God. Joe remembers rocking out to GNR in his youth and Jill lost her virginity to SCOM and had a crush on (insert band member here). New GNR is a whole different ballgame. They have NOTHING for old casual fans or even any new fans to identify with. Zero albums sold, zero legacy, and no identity. Put Finck or Fortus on TV talking about a solo they did on a GNR album, and there's about a 90% chance Joe and Jill change the channel. Nothing for them to relate to. The image they have ALWAYS had of GNR was never able to change because Axl refused to move on. When they hear GNR, they still picture Slash doing the solo.
This ingrained image is going to bite Axl on the ass much deeper than people realize.
This project dragged itself into irrelevancy. All parties involved are likely coming to the realization that its less risky on their bank accounts(and GNR's legacy) if this album never sees the light of day. They can just keep the sliver of mystery alive for us hardcores while putting Jungle and PC on video games and soundtracks and raking in dough on the old albums. Everyone with a financial stake in GNR benefits that way.
They have no desire to please us few thousand hardcores and a laughing media. They know the hardcores will masturbate while getting to vote for November Rain in the next online poll, and if GNR happen to tour, the hardcores will orgasm over Finck or Fortus playing a 20 year old song, and it also pleases the casuals who decide to show up.
So I ask everyone, what incentive does anybody have to release this album?? Don't toss out the 13 mil price tag, because 13 mil aint shit compared to the possible revenue of AFD over the next 10 years with a more intact legacy.
