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Re: Aliens Are Monitoring Our Nukes, Worry Ex-Air Force Officers
You need a certain temperature for complex life to develop. There are life in the deep of our ocean, but it's not like they produce computer parts. Im not assuming all life is like here, Im assuming that it has to be in a "not too cold, not too hot" enviroment to develop something else than microbes and bacteria.
People assumed the world was flat hundreds of years ago. Funny how that turned out.
No matter how extreme the environment here, some sort of life can usually be found.
Find it, maybe not. Do they exist, yes. There are so many suns and so many planets around, there's bound to be some. They've already gotten pretty close with some of their planet discoveries, called "super earths".
If you've read about those, you know they are uninhabitable using your own litmus test. Too close to their stars(bye bye Goldilocks), and the one I distinctly remember actually revolves around a red dwarf, which would account for its water. As its star started cooling, whatever ice existed on the planet started melting.
edit: Yeah just like I thought...
"None of the new planets are likely to be habitable, though. The planets near sunlike stars are too hot, and the possible atmosphere of GJ 1214b would be thick enough to block all incoming light, an important ingredient for life on Earth. But Charbonneau, Laughlin and Seager all say that finding habitable — and perhaps inhabited — planets is “only a matter of time.”
These planets reside in Mercury's zone yet you rule out Mercury(and I do agree that Mercury is dead) but you wont rule out these. One of them has a cloud clover just like Venus, but you rule out Venus and leave its discovered twin open to the possibility.
We have yet to find an exoplanet that is less extreme than what's in our own system, yet you want to go fishing in the system where these "super earths" reside.
In short, the most earth like planet discovered yet is actually the twin of Venus residing in a Mercury orbit but you think it may have life while ruling out life for Mercury and Venus.
ok............
History has taught us that mixing in with other ways of life and culture, have caused havoc to their societies, eventually leading to their demise. This was quite evident during the days of discoveries of continents.
Disabling nukes isn't "mixing in" or "causing havoc? 
You do realize that a species that would develop its own SDI is geared towards war? Defensive weapons come AFTER offensive weapons.
That? You can't be serious? What's the range on that last one there?
I don't care if the range is a trillion miles. You asked for spy planes being used in 2010, I showed you a couple. There's probably more.
Our solar system has us, and possible microbes and bacteria on other planets and moons. That's it. I can't even believe I'm discussing this with someone who think there might be aliens on moons on Jupiter or Saturn.
For one thing, I never stated where the life was. Unlike you, me and the rest of the world haven't mapped our entire system so we don't know what exists between every nook and cranny. Mars may have a huge network of caverns over most of the planet. I'm sure you'd walk in there with nothing since its dead. I can assure you that when we finally walk on Mars and its time to go deep into those, weapons will be carried just in case.
Just two of many(and many more yet discovered). Good to know DCK already flew there and mapped it for us as the rest of mankind only has a grainy pic to judge the entire region on.
You think, or suspect aliens in space crafts are coming from our solar system, so you naturally also think they have had thousands and thousands of years of head start on us in development on one of these moons. It's worse than bringing out the possibility of star travel to me.
No, you thinking highly advanced aliens are flying light years from planets not in your Goldilocks zone to twiddle their thumbs on a planet they likely cant live on is much more absurd than thinking aliens exist in our region, can easily fly here and back, and have either colonized one our moons, live on an undiscovered planet/moon, or simply have a space station out there somewhere where its resided for only God knows how long.
I never said they had a head start. Unlike you, I don't know enough about the aliens to know when their civilization was born, where it was born, and what would cause them to want to come here where they obviously cant live. Whatever they're doing, they're not traveling light years in those crafts. The crafts we see are only likely to contain a handful of aliens. It would be pure idiocy to send a few aliens on an interstellar mission that may fail and once arriving, obviously having very little to do. These little peek a boo missions only make sense if they are close.
There are rules in place for that stuff you know.
I'm referring to the mindset. Isn't smart going into a mission expecting nothing. Why be involved with the mission in the first place?
They have mapped it quite well, and it's a fucking hell hole. There are no intelligent life on Venus. Possibly in the upper layer clouds.
We know very little about Venus. Pics under the cloud are computer generated of what it MIGHT look like. That may satisfy you, but I'll wait for more info to come in.
I doubt there's life there either but I'm not gonna rule it out based on two 70s Russian probes that lasted a couple minutes and some computer generated pics.
We can't possibly be so ignorant that we think we know EVERY way that life can develop.
Its human nature to be arrogant, ignorant, or think we know it all. Look at this thread....
Life cant exist outside a Goldilocks zone in our system but it may exist outside the Goldilocks zone around other stars.
Please...
Re: Aliens Are Monitoring Our Nukes, Worry Ex-Air Force Officers
People assumed the world was flat hundreds of years ago. Funny how that turned out.
Got nothing to do with it.
If you've read about those, you know they are uninhabitable using your own litmus test. Too close to their stars(bye bye Goldilocks), and the one I distinctly remember actually revolves around a red dwarf, which would account for its water. As its star started cooling, whatever ice existed on the planet started melting.
Yeah, that's why I said "pretty close". They can't detect Earth like planets because they simply don't have good enough technology to do it.
These planets reside in Mercury's zone yet you rule out Mercury(and I do agree that Mercury is dead) but you wont rule out these. One of them has a cloud clover just like Venus, but you rule out Venus and leave its discovered twin open to the possibility.
So, what you're saying is that you believe scientists pick the wrong places to go, or they simply haven't found the moons yet, so they don't know about them. They haven't found all these moons because they are so damn small. They detect the largest ones first and then they continue downwards to the Pluto planets and less. They found several Pluto like planets, so small that they had to take Pluto off the planet list, but yet you seem to think they haven't discovered these habitable worlds somewhere in the solar system where aliens comes from. Because that's what we discussed. I don't think they come from this solar system, you do and you base it on "we haven't found all yet".
We have yet to find an exoplanet that is less extreme than what's in our own system, yet you want to go fishing in the system where these "super earths" reside.
Obviously, because we will within a certain amount of time develop good enough technology to detect planets of interest, and not these super-Earths and giant gas planets.
In short, the most earth like planet discovered yet is actually the twin of Venus residing in a Mercury orbit but you think it may have life while ruling out life for Mercury and Venus.
No, I don't think it has any life at all, because I said "pretty close". None of these worlds found in other solar systems are good candidates. They are simply too big or have been located due to them being extremely close to their star. There's also the issue with what kind of sun we're dealing with. And I never ruled out life on Venus, I just said in another post that there might be life in the clouds of Venus, and that's just noe me saying, that's scientists saying so.
I don't care if the range is a trillion miles. You asked for spy planes being used in 2010, I showed you a couple. There's probably more.
A twin engined prop is not a fucking spy plane in my book. It may fly around and take pictures, but it doesn't mean it's a spy plane. We have satellites and un-manned crafts.
For one thing, I never stated where the life was. Unlike you, me and the rest of the world haven't mapped our entire system so we don't know what exists between every nook and cranny. Mars may have a huge network of caverns over most of the planet. I'm sure you'd walk in there with nothing since its dead. I can assure you that when we finally walk on Mars and its time to go deep into those, weapons will be carried just in case.
Mars are interesting, but it doesnt harbour the form of intelligent life we are debating. Again, there might be bacteria or lower life forms somewhere on that planet, but no one in their right mind still thinks Mars harbours intelligent life.
Just two of many(and many more yet discovered). Good to know DCK already flew there and mapped it for us as the rest of mankind only has a grainy pic to judge the entire region on.
Just exactly are you showing us on these pictures? You forgot to mention what it is.
No, you thinking highly advanced aliens are flying light years from planets not in your Goldilocks zone to twiddle their thumbs on a planet they likely cant live on is much more absurd than thinking aliens exist in our region, can easily fly here and back, and have either colonized one our moons, live on an undiscovered planet/moon, or simply have a space station out there somewhere where its resided for only God knows how long.
No, seriously it's not more absurd. I don't think anyone in the business of serious Ufology would even bother debating this, that the aliens are really coming from an un-mapped moon of either Jupiter, Saturn or the other two far out distant gas planets. It's absurd, as both is absurd. But Ufologists of the serious kind wouldn't even bother with it. There's plenty of theories of what it is, and I think solar system aliens ranks last. Maybe before time travel.
I never said they had a head start.
But yet obviously thousands and thousands of years ahead of us in technology.
Unlike you, I don't know enough about the aliens to know when their civilization was born, where it was born, and what would cause them to want to come here where they obviously cant live. Whatever they're doing, they're not traveling light years in those crafts. The crafts we see are only likely to contain a handful of aliens. It would be pure idiocy to send a few aliens on an interstellar mission that may fail and once arriving, obviously having very little to do. These little peek a boo missions only make sense if they are close.
How many assumptions in a paragraph was that...?
We know very little about Venus. Pics under the cloud are computer generated of what it MIGHT look like. That may satisfy you, but I'll wait for more info to come in.
Oh please. We know enough to know it's a goddamn hell hole. If it was so very interesting, the scientists would put their eyes on it. They set their eyes on Mars and the moons of the gas giants, because it's just that: More interesting.
Life cant exist outside a Goldilocks zone in our system but it may exist outside the Goldilocks zone around other stars.
Please...
What "life" are you talking about? Microboes or intelligent life?
Re: Aliens Are Monitoring Our Nukes, Worry Ex-Air Force Officers
You do that. I think I'll end this discussion as it went completely the wrong way. Be sure to check the National Press Club tonight and tomorrow for news on this. Officials will speak and it will be interesting.
Re: Aliens Are Monitoring Our Nukes, Worry Ex-Air Force Officers
Got nothing to do with it.
Has everything to do with it. The flat earthers were wrong.
Yeah, that's why I said "pretty close". They can't detect Earth like planets because they simply don't have good enough technology to do it.
You used these "Super Earths" to boost your side of the discussion and it actually did the opposite.
So, what you're saying is that you believe scientists pick the wrong places to go, or they simply haven't found the moons yet, so they don't know about them. They haven't found all these moons because they are so damn small. They detect the largest ones first and then they continue downwards to the Pluto planets and less. They found several Pluto like planets, so small that they had to take Pluto off the planet list, but yet you seem to think they haven't discovered these habitable worlds somewhere in the solar system where aliens comes from. Because that's what we discussed.
When looking in the Solar System, there's no such thing as a "wrong place". We keep looking, we keep discovering things. This is going to continue for many, many years.
I don't think they come from this solar system, you do and you base it on "we haven't found all yet"
You base yours on even less, or has an inhabited alien world been found a few light years from here that I'm unaware of?
Obviously, because we will within a certain amount of time develop good enough technology to detect planets of interest, and not these super-Earths and giant gas planets.
Yeah, and years down the line when this happens, while it will be interesting to start mapping other systems even from a distance, still doesn't really change much. Just discover two super earths orbiting Betelgeuse? Big whoop. Neither side is traveling the 300+ light years to shake hands.
Mars are interesting, but it doesnt harbour the form of intelligent life we are debating. Again, there might be bacteria or lower life forms somewhere on that planet, but no one in their right mind still thinks Mars harbours intelligent life.
I didn't say Mars definitely has life. Unlike you, I don't have a map of the Solar System that tells me where life does and does not exist. I have to wait for manned missions or at least high tech robots to start fully exploring these places to find out once and for all. Two rovers moving an inch a day and a satellite orbiting the planet isn't enough for me to shut the door completely just yet. As far as Mars goes, like I said earlier, those caverns need a very close look and if I was involved in the mission, would make it top priority but unfortunately will probably not even be a priority. We'll eventually go in though.
A twin engined prop is not a fucking spy plane in my book. It may fly around and take pictures, but it doesn't mean it's a spy plane. We have satellites and un-manned crafts.
A spy plane is a spy plane. Didn't realize they had to appease the public's definition of one.
Just exactly are you showing us on these pictures? You forgot to mention what it is.
They're not showing up on your map of the Solar System that the top scientists in the world would kill for?
No, seriously it's not more absurd. I don't think anyone in the business of serious Ufology would even bother debating this, that the aliens are really coming from an un-mapped moon of either Jupiter, Saturn or the other two far out distant gas planets. It's absurd, as both is absurd. But Ufologists of the serious kind wouldn't even bother with it. There's plenty of theories of what it is, and I think solar system aliens ranks last. Maybe before time travel.
No, its just easy for you and Ufologists to claim these aliens use small craft to fly hundreds of light years when you have nothing even remotely resembling evidence to back it up. You just wish they could so this wish supposedly becomes a fact. Since its impossible for living flesh and bone to withstand the many issues of space flight, you have to give them these super duper abilities to fit in with the fantasy, yet have the gall to label something else as absurd.
Fly 100+ light years to play peek a boo with objects? Sounds reasonable. Just like when man eventually flies to the Centauri system, we're gonna land on one of its planets, kiss a rock, continue orbiting the planet for decades, then kiss the rock again. No time. money, or resources wasted doing that at all.
But yet obviously thousands and thousands of years ahead of us in technology.
You just showed earlier how quickly man has evolved, so I assume the super duper aliens can evolve even quicker. Don't know why you think its thousands of years. Did they announce this somewhere?
How many assumptions in a paragraph was that...?
This whole debate is assumptions, especially when it comes to aliens flying hundreds of light years to test SDI. What's your point?
What "life" are you talking about? Microboes or intelligent life?
Either. I have the view nothing should be ruled out until its been fully investigated and we know for a fact nothing(or something) is there.
- mickronson
- Rep: 118
Re: Aliens Are Monitoring Our Nukes, Worry Ex-Air Force Officers
UN denies appointing alien ambassador
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/odd/news/a2 … sador.html
I vote for old Lofty as our leader
Re: Aliens Are Monitoring Our Nukes, Worry Ex-Air Force Officers
I'm gonna point out the argument we haven't found em yet is pretty flawed. We've found the biggest planets or moons in our system because in quite simple terms, the bigger something is the easier it is to spot. I know that sounds dumb but even with the tech thats what it comes down to. Shoot waves in all directions wait for something to bounce it back, bigger objects are more likely to bounce back. We found all the big planets, they're the ones in our solar system: Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars and so on. Most of the stuff we're finding now is small and uninhabitable. We have managed to examine the conditions necessary for life to grow and have even done so on a microscopic level in labs. That is why it is safe to assume that it is very unlikely that any planets found now will have intelligent life because if there was any we would probably have found it by now. Now all that seems to be discovered are small planets and planetoids which are either too hot or too cold to sustain any sort of life.
Re: Aliens Are Monitoring Our Nukes, Worry Ex-Air Force Officers
I'm gonna point out the argument we haven't found em yet is pretty flawed. We've found the biggest planets or moons in our system because in quite simple terms, the bigger something is the easier it is to spot. I know that sounds dumb but even with the tech thats what it comes down to. Shoot waves in all directions wait for something to bounce it back, bigger objects are more likely to bounce back. We found all the big planets, they're the ones in our solar system: Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars and so on. Most of the stuff we're finding now is small and uninhabitable. We have managed to examine the conditions necessary for life to grow and have even done so on a microscopic level in labs. That is why it is safe to assume that it is very unlikely that any planets found now will have intelligent life because if there was any we would probably have found it by now. Now all that seems to be discovered are small planets and planetoids which are either too hot or too cold to sustain any sort of life.
Thank you!!!!!
