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Re: Ron Visiting Israel For Benefit Show
peopel are gonna think, say feel what they wanna feel...if that is your opinion on Israel more power to you...whatever...i just dont see why someone cant perform at a venue they want to and/or have the oportunity to for a cause they identify with and i dont see why peopel should be denied the privilage of watching a specific performer play a show for them
how would you feel john or naltav if you were denied the opportunity to see a show cuz someone didnt like where you came from.... that says oppression to me...do unto others as you would have them do unto you...pretty simple concept thats all i'm sayin, has nothing to do with politics ... just be nice to your fellow man
Re: Ron Visiting Israel For Benefit Show
peopel are gonna think, say feel what they wanna feel...if that is your opinion on Israel more power to you...whatever...i just dont see why someone cant perform at a venue they want to and/or have the oportunity to for a cause they identify with and i dont see why peopel should be denied the privilage of watching a specific performer play a show for them
how would you feel john or naltav if you were denied the opportunity to see a show cuz someone didnt like where you came from.... that says oppression to me...do unto others as you would have them do unto you...pretty simple concept thats all i'm sayin, has nothing to do with politics ... just be nice to your fellow man
I wasn't gonna reply, but this is a very good point.
Funny thing is, by having such a stand they're doing exactly what they're protesting so loudly about in regards to the Palestinians. Denying a group of people specific things, (in this case benefits like music) because of who these people are and what their leaders are doing. That is just as much oppression as anything else.
It's not only wrong, it's a dangerous road to go down.
Re: Ron Visiting Israel For Benefit Show
Neemo wrote:peopel are gonna think, say feel what they wanna feel...if that is your opinion on Israel more power to you...whatever...i just dont see why someone cant perform at a venue they want to and/or have the oportunity to for a cause they identify with and i dont see why peopel should be denied the privilage of watching a specific performer play a show for them
how would you feel john or naltav if you were denied the opportunity to see a show cuz someone didnt like where you came from.... that says oppression to me...do unto others as you would have them do unto you...pretty simple concept thats all i'm sayin, has nothing to do with politics ... just be nice to your fellow man
I wasn't gonna reply, but this is a very good point.
Funny thing is, by having such a stand they're doing exactly what they're protesting so loudly about in regards to the Palestinians. Denying a group of people specific things, (in this case benefits like music) because of who these people are and what their leaders are doing. That is just as much oppression as anything else.
It's not only wrong, it's a dangerous road to go down.
DCK, are you really comparing my little veggie/cultural boycot to Israel's treatment of the Palestinians? Please, say it ain't so....
Ron can and will do what he wants. It's not like I'm gonna stop beeing a fan. Just as I'm not gonna stop being friends with my friends just because they won't support my views.
I'm not talking about denying Israelis clean water and education. Just a harmless stand so that, if enough people outside stand together, maybe it could cause a change in the attitude amongst the avarage Isreali. You know, like a little knock on the door saying: "Hey, we're still watching you and haven't forgotten about that little prison with millions of innocent people in it. Gonna start doing the right thing soon?"
If we all just close our eyes and act ignorant to the atrocities, nothing will happen, that's for sure.
It seems to me that Israel, as a collective, are just fine and dandy with the current treatment going on indefinatly. Keep millions of people imprisoned under terrible conditions and secretly assassinate high profile leaders. To throw in a quote from a movie: "My fingernails grow back, does that mean I should stop cutting them?”
how would you feel john or naltav if you were denied the opportunity to see a show cuz someone didnt like where you came from
I can tell you all about it, son!!!
My hometown of Stavanger and even Norway are traditionally overlooked when high profile acts set up their tour-schedule!
It's been getting better in later years, but I almost allways have to fly out of town!
Come to think of it...Whitney Houston had a show in Stavanger last year!!
She's not a hater of cold climate and small towns! You go girl!!!
(prolly not what you had in mind, Neemo. But hey, blame your poor choice of words!)
Re: Ron Visiting Israel For Benefit Show
Well, today, I am gonna take my political stand against the Irish.....fuckin drunk bastards....no Guinness or Irish Whiskey for me. They promote an unhealthy, immoral lifestyle which I vehemently disagree with. 
Happy St Patrick's Day!:cool:
Re: Ron Visiting Israel For Benefit Show
DCK, are you really comparing my little veggie/cultural boycot to Israel's treatment of the Palestinians? Please, say it ain't so....
Yes I am and first of all, how do you actually boycott a cultural event you're not a part of? You don't support Ron playing in Israel, that's what you're saying. You don't want him there to entertain people because of what Israel is doing. That's what you're saying. You can't fucking boycott an event you're not invited to or in some form of another part of. You don't like that Ron is playing a show in regards to the Holocaust, and you don't support it. You think Ron should stay away from Israel, indirectly denying the Israelis the entertainment value. If you say A, you better say B.
That's exactly what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians alongside plenty of other shit which goes much further than what you're trying to boycott, but the principle of the matter is the same thing.
I'm not talking about denying Israelis clean water and education. Just a harmless stand so that, if enough people outside stand together, maybe it could cause a change in the attitude amongst the avarage Isreali. You know, like a little knock on the door saying: "Hey, we're still watching you and haven't forgotten about that little prison with millions of innocent people in it. Gonna start doing the right thing soon?
So if everyone did like you, and stopped buying Israeli veggies, do you think that would be harmless? You're doing exactly the same shit as you're trying to prevent. If everyone would boycott Israeli grocieries or products, hundreds of thousands of innocent people would be out of a job. But hey, you said the Palestinians were innocent, the Israeli farmers are innocent too, or are they both equally to blame for their leaders brutal attitude? You like to punish one civilian side, in this case the farmers, and not the Palestinians? You made it quite clear the Palestinians are innocent. So, which will it be? Are both civilian sides innocent or not?
My hometown of Stavanger and even Norway are traditionally overlooked when high profile acts set up their tour-schedule!
It's been getting better in later years, but I almost allways have to fly out of town!
Come to think of it...Whitney Houston had a show in Stavanger last year!!
She's not a hater of cold climate and small towns! You go girl!!!
This must be the most lousy argument put out ever. It got SHIT to do with anything.
Re: Ron Visiting Israel For Benefit Show
Naltav wrote:DCK, are you really comparing my little veggie/cultural boycot to Israel's treatment of the Palestinians? Please, say it ain't so....
Yes I am and first of all, how do you actually boycott a cultural event you're not a part of?
This whole thing started with me simply saying I agreed with johndivney that "ideally I would prefer GnR & GnR members to abstain from playing concerts in Israel.."
Of course I know perfectly well I can't do shit about it if Ron or GNR decides to play in Israel.
Aaaawwwh... Hold on...
You think Ron should stay away from Israel, indirectly denying the Israelis the entertainment value....
...That's exactly what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians alongside plenty of other shit which goes much further than what you're trying to boycott, but the principle of the matter is the same thing.
There you go! You almost got it!! 
A bit of an understatement on your part, but...
So if everyone did like you, and stopped buying Israeli veggies, do you think that would be harmless? You're doing exactly the same shit as you're trying to prevent. If everyone would boycott Israeli grocieries or products, hundreds of thousands of innocent people would be out of a job. But hey, you said the Palestinians were innocent, the Israeli farmers are innocent too, or are they both equally to blame for their leaders brutal attitude? You like to punish one civilian side, in this case the farmers, and not the Palestinians? You made it quite clear the Palestinians are innocent. So, which will it be? Are both civilian sides innocent or not?
or.... maybe Iraelis would start thinking: "Hmm, maybe we should start voting for politicians that are a bit more moderate and interested in dialog"
As far as I know, Israel is a democracy. If they start to see that the politics of later years are having a negative effect on them. They can collectively choose a different path.
My hometown of Stavanger and even Norway are traditionally overlooked when high profile acts set up their tour-schedule!
It's been getting better in later years, but I almost allways have to fly out of town!
Come to think of it...Whitney Houston had a show in Stavanger last year!!
She's not a hater of cold climate and small towns! You go girl!!!
must be the most lousy argument put out ever. It got SHIT to do with anything.
You conveniently ignored the part where I said:
(prolly not what you had in mind, Neemo. But hey, blame your poor choice of words!)
you know, to kinda make sure that people understood it wasn't ment seriously. And just poking a little fun at Neemo. All in good spirit!....
I think you're having problems with being objective when it comes to this conflict. Just because your wife is Israeli and you have friends that are Israeli, doesn't mean that ANYONE should "shut the fuck up!" (as you put it)
Re: Ron Visiting Israel For Benefit Show
Right.
Kaddish is actually a cracking album, if you're into that kind of music. I'm a bit old-school Norwegian in that regard, but remain fond of Salem's sound and would definitely go see them with or without Ron.
As for the Israeli nation, a journalist buddy of mine is actually coming back from the region from another of his extended stays in the region. Will get the grassroots level impressions from him, but wont comment in this thread or any other before getting a first-hand lowdown one of these days.
Besides, music's always more universal than politics. Nations just pretend its the other way around.
Re: Ron Visiting Israel For Benefit Show
This:
or.... maybe Iraelis would start thinking: "Hmm, maybe we should start voting for politicians that are a bit more moderate and interested in dialog"
As far as I know, Israel is a democracy. If they start to see that the politics of later years are having a negative effect on them. They can collectively choose a different path.
Democracy is not a right you should use lightly, it's your duty as a citizen of a democratic nation to make sure you have sane leadership. With the privilege of being able to choose your own government comes great responsibility.
