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Re: Guns N' Roses Live From Rock In Rio
People are enablers, but there's too many of them to stop at this point. No point in trying to convince an enabler that they are an enabler either. If that represents something they feel is worth paying for, thrn let them pay. Logic won't change it.
This whole being an "enabler" thing is based on a faulty premise. It's assuming that A) others have to share the same opinion as you and/or B) others have to be willing to draw the same conclusion as to how the larger group of shows will turn out even if it is agreed upon that one performance was subpar. Having a differing opinion is just simply having a differing opinion.
Ali
Re: Guns N' Roses Live From Rock In Rio
buzzsaw wrote:People are enablers, but there's too many of them to stop at this point. No point in trying to convince an enabler that they are an enabler either. If that represents something they feel is worth paying for, thrn let them pay. Logic won't change it.
This whole being an "enabler" thing is based on a faulty premise. It's assuming that A) others have to share the same opinion as you and/or B) others have to be willing to draw the same conclusion as to how the larger group of shows will turn out even if it is agreed upon that one performance was subpar. Having a differing opinion is just simply having a differing opinion.
Ali
No it isn't based on a faulty premise. It's no different than a shitty sports franchise selling out every game. They continue to put the same product on the ice or on the field with no serious attempts to improve yet fans still buy tickets every game and sell out, in essence enabling a franchise to spend less and remain mediocre. Sure every once in a whiel the team puts in a thrilling performance or goes on a run that gives fans hope but in typical fashion they crash and burn when it matters most and then the whole process of "rebuilding" starts all over but the organization doesn't have to worry about moving forward cause the homes games are still sold out.
Honestly Ali if people would stop buying tickets to the "Guns N' Roses" maybe Axl would actually move forward and do soemthnig but it's people who continue to buy tickets to this that are enabling him to keep the status quo. Which is no new albums, no new setlist(one song doesn't count), no new anything. Just the same old, same old.
I'm as guilty as anyone as I've bought tickets to the 2002, 2006 & 2010 tours. But the premise that fans are enabling this is not in the least bit faulty. It's pretty accurate.
It's all very common sense.
Re: Guns N' Roses Live From Rock In Rio
well, its just people keep lowering their standards out of fandom and u gotta ask when enough is enough.
People forget GNR should be up there dominating the world like Metallica,U2,Bon Jovi etc. Yet they have allowed their standards to be diluted to the point where anything is acceptable.
There is a reason they aren't and I'm not even sure it has a lot to do with their being a brand new band. its complete unprofessionalism/mismanagement. Seem my "Axl isn't a perfectionist" thread. RIR proves without a shadow of a doubt that he isn't anywhere near being a "Perfectionist."
Im not hating on Axl either. I can copy n paste posts from an Old Bon Jovi board where I did the same to Jon when during the Have A Nice Day Tour, he let his voice get so shitty, he couldn't hit any notes whatsoever... now in 2011, he can sing something as high as Always flawlessly again. I give objective/honest opinions.. i don't give any excuses or ignore whats going on.
Re: Guns N' Roses Live From Rock In Rio
Ali wrote:russtcb wrote:Oh I'm happy with my Chicago tickets and I'll be happy with my Detroit ones. My initial concern was that the tour happen at all based on Axl's whole attitude at RiR
Understood, but to suggest there is something wrong with buying tickets despite what, as of now, stands as a single bad show, is absurd to me.
Ali
I saw someone on mygnr started a thread to basically "pat themselves on the back" for having not bought tickets prior to Rock In Rio and how there's no chance they'll buy tickets now.
The way I look at that is "Yippie for you!". If you start a thread like that, you probably never had any intention on buying tickets, supporting the band and were probably hoping for the worst anyways.
My thing is this; I'm calling a spade a spade. RiR (IMO) was a bad show for Axl. Not because of his weight, not because of his voice, not because of the rain, not because SoaD ran over, not because he flugged some lyrics, simply because his attitude was terrible.
Having lived through A LOT of GN'R mishaps in the past 20 or so years as all of us have, I've seen his attitude get in the way more than anything. So I honestly became completely worried that his attitude at RiR meant that there might be some rough times ahead. Up to and including just plain cancelling the US Tour.
In any case, I'm still very happy I bought Chicago tickets, I'm looking forward to buying Detroit tickets and I sure as hell hope I get the chance to see both shows!
For the record,someone on there named themselves D.. and that IS NOT me.
Its ok to be like Neemo and try to find the positives etc. I got no problem with that.. but when people I see post "Axl was God like" his voice was amazing, the show was one of the best... I mean Really??
Re: Guns N' Roses Live From Rock In Rio
"Soon is the word" and on a Tuesday no less!
Not that anyone will be shocked by this, but if you go look at htgth, this was the greatest gig played by any band ever.
I really hate those mother fuckers over there. I know its "just the internet" but I hate how smug those stupid mother fuckers are over there.
Only in the GN'R world can Jarmo have "nutswinging fans"
Those stupid bastards wouldn't know good if it evolved lips running up and down their small cocks.
Even Ron recently had to tell them to backoff with the "fuck Slash" comments and in typical Ron fashion said "none of us would be here without Slash".
As always -- pure class Mr. Thal.
I'll say it now. He needs to retire from touring and become a studio musician. He still has a few years left before his voice completely abandons him. It would be nice if he can take advantage of it. Lord knows he wasted 15 prime years with the CD debacle.
I could not agree with this more. If you'd of asked me in 2002, I would've never ever agreed with this, and probably would've labeled you a 'Slashite' and then went on to explain how Axl needed that long to work on the 'masterpiece to be' Chinese Democracy.
In 2011, basically a decade later... it's a whole different story.
Looking back, GN'R and Axl especially should've NEVER breaked after the UYI tour wrapped up. They should've rushed that '95 album out, because I think if tthey had of, it would've kept GN'R active, which is what Slash & Duff wanted too.
Instead Axl absolutely squandared his prime.
Now, even if he does want to record, his vocals and physical condition are completely shot. It won't be the same.
What's even more tragic is like things i've dealt with in my own life... "can you give me my time back? Can you?" (to quote Samuel L. Jackson in 'Changing Lanes')
Nobody can get their time back, or youth, or motivation. Once its gone, it's gone.
Quote from: AdZ on Today at 06:37:44 AM
Just back from the show, soaked and very cold!The rain was torrential and the stage and audience were soaked yet the band put on a killer gig and the audience was crazy! Anyone trying to judge it from youtube is a fool!
Found this on htgth and thought it was funny.
Didn't know YouTube was out of tune
No shit. AdZ is a proven nutswinger that knows dick.
"Well I was at the show"
Only in a GN'R/Axl-geek world do "fans" have to IMMEDIATELY do damage control after every fucking show.
Axl can't put himself over with the audience, the "Axl Army" over at HTGTH have to.
It's such an incredible joke at this point that 10 years later he's still got a rotating lineup of nutswinging fans just as much as a rotating lineup of band members that defends his obvious mistakes since 1993.
I don't believe Axl does all wrong. But I do feel when he screws up its perfectly honest to call him out over it. Instead of defending him CONSTANTLY.
See at the beginning of November Rain, at 1.15ish - he looks like he's crying or trying to fight off tears anyway...
He kinda looks like he's trying to hold it together a lot of times and looks so uncomfortable, mabye thats why he just gave up at the end
Never noticed that during the performance.
That ain't rain in his eyes. He's about to cry. I have never seen him that emotional EVER.
Something is going on in his life privately. Or he's after a bad reaction to a new anti-depressant.
He's obviously very upset.
Maybe he's thinking "nothing ever goes fucking right for me. Ever."
And he'd be right.
I think a real telling point is hearing Tommy say he hasn't seen Axl in a year. That's no good. It really shows how NOT a band this band is. And it really shows how irresponsible Axl is when it comes to rehearsals and soundchecks. Simply showing up for the show at Rock in Rio after not performing in a year is ridiculous. It really is and there' no excuse for that and Axl should not be given a pass simply because he's emotional.
Tommy's full of shit. Or just exaggerating.
The band's most recent show was December 2010 in Abu Dhabi.
It hasn't been a year.
no i was saying that axls vocal style is tougher to pull off than Bono's...obviously has nothing to do with the rain, but would def require more prep
the whole shredding noodling whatver you wanna call it is the whole point...arpeggios and chords are nothing compared to some of the shit that the gnr boys pull off....Edge is good at what he does, but he hardly plays a ton of crazy shit night in and night out
luv ya bono
Sorry fucking owned that was a good performance...same with the 007 spot
Sorry was fucking horrible. The worst live performance of that song ever.
You've got to be suffering from hearing loss.
so when does the show get bad? cuz i'm on RQ and they are ruling
Once again, you've gotta be deaf. Easy, LALD, TIL, SOD & Estranged were decent for "2002 standards".
The rest was the worst, WORST i've ever heard Axl. And i've listened to over a 100 boots over and over dating back to 1986, every era, seen them live in 2006...
This is the worst show they ever did. St. Louis '91 was better. Other than the riot, the songs THERE fucking owned. Might've been the best live performances ever of Jungle, Dust N' Bones & 14 Years...
Bono wrote:madagas wrote:They nailed it, and you could tell they cared...probably cared more than Slash did when he did it back in the day.
Let's make sure that is kept in context though. They only cared more(argueably) because it wasn't their song to fuck up and they knew what that song means to the hardcore fanbase. they were tackeling a classic than many feel is Guns n" Roses greatest achievment. That song was Slash's song to fuck up, it wasn't these guys song to fuck up and had they fucked that song up shit would really have hit the fan. Thats' why i think they cared so much. the pressure was on big time for that one. But it's not like it ment more to them than Slash as far as anytnig personal goes. At least i wouldn't believe so.
I think their performance of Estranged was flat out awesome.
agree, they cared because they knew how much the fans cared...as for Slash caring, not so sure how much he cared at the time because every interview he gives he slags a little on the epics. I have never heard him say anything all that positive about Estranged. He always seems to talk about the difficulties in recording those epic tunes. Show me an interview where he says, "Hey, Axl really wrote some great lyrics and the piano melodies were cool. It really gave me an opportunity to branch out and be all that I can be." If he did an interview like that, I 'd like to see it.
Slash has never ever done an interview like that, because it would require him give Axl credit for actually writing a good song.
All Slash ever talks about is HIS contributions, and Axl's singing. But never Axl's writing.
I think Slash really never ever liked Axl as a writer and never liked the direction Axl ever took on any song.
That's because Slash thinks shit sounds good, and good sounds like shit. He always has.
Anybody that would release Ain't Life Grand and think it's worthy of being a bookmark for a comic book, let alone a listenable CD, is fuckin' tone deaf.
i think i'm one of the few thats didnt really mind his vocals in 2002
but yeah he has some times where his voice breaks to hit the notes...especially when he is out of breath
His voice in 2002 only sounded good on the ballads and the CD songs. I still think Street of Dreams & Madagascar sounded best in 2002 (not CD).
The rockers was where his voice sounded like utter shit.
Rio IV-2011 was no different. I'd go so far to say he sounded worse in 2011 than he did in 2001, just for the fact his voice was so inconsistent this time around, where at least in 2001 it was consistently hollow and pitchy.
yeah he's pissed at himself for fuckign up the lyrics so many times....so he stations himself in front of the teleprompter so he doesnt lose sight of it in the glare of the stage lights....thats what it looks like to me anyway
anyway yeah there were a few fuckups and miscues but damn was still a good show overall imo...maybe my standards are lower than the rest of you fuckers...or myabe you are all crazy bastards for staying up all hours of the night to watch it...or for expecting new material cuz of some setlist of shady origins....i dunno i didnt expect all that shit so it was ok for me...Axl is even pretty into it at the end of PC...headbanging stomping and spinning the steering wheel mic stand....you crazy doomsayers need to fucking relax man..maybe give it a day or two and watch it again or something...it really wasnt nearly as bad as y'all made it out to be
peace out
There is not fucking way in hell that you can call that a "good show".
If that's a "Good show" then there's no way Axl can do a bad show in your eyes/ears. No way.
That was the worst GN'R show ever, and that's counting St. Louis '91.
This was just posted to my facebook page, not by me . Anyone who thinks this shit show won't hit the general public is living in la la land. The genral public Love Axl but the also love to hate Axl. This shit is gold for them so... Comments on youtube on all sorts of GnR RIR '11 videos with people saying they were thinking about getting tickets for the tour but not anymore.
the fact a video like this is already up on youtube speaks volumes. the worst part in my mind is watching him sulk around on stage kicking at the water like a 6 year old kid having a temper tantrum. It's so not endearing in any way shape or form from a guy who's almost 50. At least when he was in his 20's you could use the excuse that he was acting out in his "rebelious youth". Now he's just an old man acting like a baby.
I'll quietly predict that whenever this US tour ends that'll be the last we hear from Axl for a VERY long time. Just a prediction and yeah some will say that's overreacting and it's too early for predictions but the same people will always say it's "too early" to predict anything. They're called predictions so you make them before hand. the only thing that saves this anymore is new material in the form of an album. New live songs aren't gonna cut it anymore I don't think. It would be cool but it's not what's gonna right the ship. It's like last night was the sailing of the new era ship. Funny thing is the ship has never even really left the dock. The fans support this band for so many years and hold on to faith that eventually they are gonna get something really great and then last night happens? I don't get it.
If I had my say I'd say screw the US tour and just record an album as a band, as friends(if they are even that). Yes I get the folks in the States want a US tour and quite frankly this may be the last one but I agree with tejastech08 it's time to call it a day. Hole up in the studio record some music, create a body of work not that of the old band and then maybe down the road tour your songs in smaller venues on your own merrit with a new name. Gee the name "Axl Rose" might work even. Stop with the Guns N' Roses farce.
There's no fucking way that happens.
Axl will never ever walk away from that name, because now he has even less confidence in himself than before.
Maybe in 1998, not now. No way.
But Axl needing to be a studio musician has been a NECESSITY for YEARS for new Guns.
And it's reached a point where he HAS to do that. If just to get his voice down on records.
As a live act, it's not the band that's the problem, it's Axl. He's wearing his voice out with these cash grab tours (even if he does rebound tomorrow, this remains true), and instead he needs to have his ass in a studio.
Once again, he's doing the WRONG thing for GN'R.
madagas wrote:Bono wrote:Let's make sure that is kept in context though. They only cared more(argueably) because it wasn't their song to fuck up and they knew what that song means to the hardcore fanbase. they were tackeling a classic than many feel is Guns n" Roses greatest achievment. That song was Slash's song to fuck up, it wasn't these guys song to fuck up and had they fucked that song up shit would really have hit the fan. Thats' why i think they cared so much. the pressure was on big time for that one. But it's not like it ment more to them than Slash as far as anytnig personal goes. At least i wouldn't believe so.
I think their performance of Estranged was flat out awesome.
agree, they cared because they knew how much the fans cared...as for Slash caring, not so sure how much he cared at the time because every interview he gives he slags a little on the epics. I have never heard him say anything all that positive about Estranged. He always seems to talk about the difficulties in recording those epic tunes. Show me an interview where he says, "Hey, Axl really wrote some great lyrics and the piano melodies were cool. It really gave me an opportunity to branch out and be all that I can be." If he did an interview like that, I 'd like to see it.
GN'R just did its worst show in its entirely history and you're complaining about Slash?? Some other hateful comments in the thread against the man who wasn't even there, while some here (not you) are trying to lie even to themselves about the RIR catastrophe, finding excuses or simply saying that black is white. You made very good posts in this topic, but your hatred has just overgrown.
Slash did justice to that song every fuckin' night, and even if he made mistakes, he always gave 100%. Always. Even when he was dead and brought to hospital a day before. Fuck this shit. It's not Slash who didn't care enough.BTW as much as Axl deserved it for his laziness and not giving a fuck about his own fans, I feel sorry for him. He was in a very bad shape, that was painful to even watch, I can imagine how bad it could have been for him. I hope he'll get better, cause I've never seen anyone so helpless, sad and lonely on a stage. He looked dying.
I completely agree here. "Dying" was a nice term too.
I've never seen Axl like that. Never, and I watched tons of boots and listened to tons. Never have I seen him like that.
Something is personally wrong with him. He looked so DEMORALIZED the other night. I've never seen him like that.
He had that look Cobain had when he got deeper into drugs.
Axl looked so bloated, and "not well", I almost wondered if he had been struggling with some sort of substance.
His bloated, pale look reminded me of when Duff bloated out from the alcoholism at the end of the UYI tour.
Axl looks sick to me right now. And I feel bad for him. Something more is wrong than a "fucked up show".
From someone 'not caring':
Slash: It's one of Axl's babies, where he sat down and he had something he really wanted to express, and he wrote it on piano. And so there came the time when the band had to figure out where the bass is gonna come in, where the guitar is gonna come in. This and that. And so, I did all the guitar arrangements on it and wrote the guitar melodies, which are pretty important to the song now, I would say. 'Cause you recognize 'em, you know. That's that. That's why I have credit on it [GN'R on WNEW 102.7 - September, 1991].
Slash: There were a few songs that were very involved guitar-wise on those albums. 'Estranged' was a big, long song. I used a Les Paul Gold Top on it; I recorded all of the melodies on the rhythm pickup with the tone turned all the way down. 'November Rain' was tough, too, as was another Axl song called 'Breakdown.' Those were all piano driven and they needed accompaniment; the guitar and bass parts had to be thought out and done precisely. Those songs were all pretty fucking cool, I have to say, but they took some work [Bozza, Anthony, & Slash (2007). Slash. Harper Entertainment: New York, pp 316].
Slash: It was hard to arrange [November Rain] and Estranged, because they were so open-ended and we had to cut November Rain. But those were Axl's epic piano pieces and they were both breakthrough guitar solos for me. Real melody solos, y'know? I had some good sounds and they were melodically very spontaneous [Music Radar, September 2011].
That says dick.
Slash is once again putting over HIS playing and contributions and all he's talking about is the structure and context of what Axl did.
Once again, he's not saying he liked it and how great of a writer Axl is. 'Cause I don't think Slash thinks so.
Axl has put over Slash's writing many times back in the day. Only recently (2009) did Axl publicly slam what Slash had done post-Lies.
Look at it from a brighter perspective. HTGTH says it was a great show.
And to come full circle...
I hate those mother fuckers. Nothing but a bunch of bukkake cum guzzlin', kool aid drinking, bitch-made cunt mother fuckers.
Re: Guns N' Roses Live From Rock In Rio
Olorin wrote:Ali wrote:Did his conditioning seem to be good? No. But, I don't see any significant difference in his appearance from the other night to 2010.
He has nearly a month's worth of shows before Orlando. He'll be much better off by then, both in terms of his physical and vocal conditioning. If he can sing as well as he did during the Canadian 2010 tour, I think it will be a great tour.
Ali
Seriously you dont see it? I dont want to keep going on about this, its kinda cruel, but folks acting blind to it is getting on my tits. If you cant see it...*deep breath - then howz about you count his chins compared to 2010, cause theres at least one more than the few that were there at the beginning of the last tour.
Yes, getting off his sofa for a while and performing will shed some pounds.
Yes, his vocals will no doubt improve as the tour rolls on... but fuck me, Axl looks worse than he ever has in his life. He might have been carrying a few extra pounds when he emerged to kick off the first tour in Asia, but he was still in powerfull form and spirits.This time its different, he's looks ill and his performance was bad (he's my favourite singer of all time, but that wont cloud reality -he stank the fucking place out) and on top of that he had a borderline breakdown on live TV.... but hey
Look at this picture posted on MyGNR. Honestly I do not see a noticeable difference between now and 2010. Maybe your impression of his overall performance is coloring your view of his appearance? Not saying that's wrong in any way, but it would be understandable.
http://www.mygnrforum.com/index.php?sho … &p=2925188
Ali
I thought he started ok and went downhill, there was some good points and bad but I have no urge to watch any of it again except Estranged, it was a bad night at the office and did not sound good.
But I dont need to look a photograph - I was defending him here the other day when folk were taking potshots at him based on those first pics of him getting into the car, he didnt look much different (but the enormous baggy clothes seemed odd.)
The video doesnt lie though, its plain to see, and if he was a friend of mine I'd be concerned. Infact I have a couple of friends like that, and I've even been there myself... depressed and binging on drugs, booze and junk food and generally living a poor lifestyle, I look back a photos and cant beleive noone ever said anything - I looked like someone else, not unlike Duff when he was in a bad way with the booze and everyone was ignoring the drastic change in his appearance.
Re: Guns N' Roses Live From Rock In Rio
I'm not going to argue that Axl's biggest problem is inactivity. He blew an entire decade and lost 2 of the most important members of his band since Duff and Slash left all because of inactivity.
I highly doubt anything a fan, or fans do or don't do that will make him change.
I heard the enabling fan bit be played on Elvis. That because they accepted him no matter what, that he didn't have any motivation to change. You know what? Bullshit. Responsibility rests on that person. Not Beta, not Slash, Manager or fan. Its on Axl. Idon't see him changing for anyone. HE has to want it.
But I'm not going to not by a ticket to "help" Axl. If I want to see a show I will. I know what I'm getting and the risk of what might happen. That risk has been there since I became a GN'R fan. I wasn't allowed to see GN'R when they toured with Metallica based SOLEY on Axl's attitude and what might happen if I went. That is a HUGE regret for me and I won't let it happen again.
Re: Guns N' Roses Live From Rock In Rio
Plus anyone who gets to go on tour with the band for free and hang out etc have no objectivity. So their opinions mean absolutely less than zero.
I made a long thread/post at HTGTH a few years back * now deleted I am sure* talking about how everyone posts like if they kiss enough ass, Jarmo will invite them backstage so u got all these people who do nothing but that kind of shit hoping and just praying they will somehow get an email from GNR management or something.
I've said it a million times.. I don't want to go backstage, don't have any interest in hanging with the band or meeting any of my idols.
Re: Guns N' Roses Live From Rock In Rio
Ali wrote:buzzsaw wrote:People are enablers, but there's too many of them to stop at this point. No point in trying to convince an enabler that they are an enabler either. If that represents something they feel is worth paying for, thrn let them pay. Logic won't change it.
This whole being an "enabler" thing is based on a faulty premise. It's assuming that A) others have to share the same opinion as you and/or B) others have to be willing to draw the same conclusion as to how the larger group of shows will turn out even if it is agreed upon that one performance was subpar. Having a differing opinion is just simply having a differing opinion.
Ali
No it isn't based on a faulty premise. It's no different than a shitty sports franchise selling out every game. They continue to put the same product on the ice or on the field with no serious attempts to improve yet fans still buy tickets every game and sell out, in essence enabling a franchise to spend less and remain mediocre. Sure every once in a whiel the team puts in a thrilling performance or goes on a run that gives fans hope but in typical fashion they crash and burn when it matters most and then the whole process of "rebuilding" starts all over but the organization doesn't have to worry about moving forward cause the homes games are still sold out.
Honestly Ali if people would stop buying tickets to the "Guns N' Roses" maybe Axl would actually move forward and do soemthnig but it's people who continue to buy tickets to this that are enabling him to keep the status quo. Which is no new albums, no new setlist(one song doesn't count), no new anything. Just the same old, same old.
I'm as guilty as anyone as I've bought tickets to the 2002, 2006 & 2010 tours. But the premise that fans are enabling this is not in the least bit faulty. It's pretty accurate.
It's all very common sense.
It is a faulty premise and it is not based on common sense. Sorry, but if someone doesn't look at the Rio show and assume it will be representative of the rest of the tour, it only means that they aren't jumping to the same conclusion others are. I don't HAVE TO sit here and say because of one bad show I won't go to a US show. That's because I won't jump to conclusions based off one data point as opposed to a larger sample size. That's personal choice and completely valid.
If I buy tickets to see the Golden State Warriors simply because I like the idea of seeing NBA basketball live and find it entertaining, even though the team isn't very competitive, that's completely valid and doesn't make me an enabler. It just makes me someone that enjoys NBA games as a means of having a good night out.
You don't see it apparently, but the fundamental problem with this "enabler" concept is that the opinion that things are bad, wrong or completely unacceptable is the correct and only opinion. That just isn't the case, or it wouldn't be a matter of opinion.
Ali
