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Re: Chinese Democracy's Fate
It isn't finished until it leaks in full or is available for purchase. While it might be finished for real this time, I wouldn't wager money on it. In the GNR world, something can go from finished to unfinished in the blink of an eye.
I just don't see the point in the saga continuing past 08 if an album hasn't materialized.
Re: Chinese Democracy's Fate
i'm gonna be optimistic and say it gets released this year...
lol...oh man some weird deja-vu just happened right there 
still though everything seems to suggest the album is finished...and recently i'vestarted to think that universal is gonna try some elaborate new promotion...whether it be with digital DL or whatever...but i think it'll be out this year...i cant see why the label would sit on it too long
- bringbackadler in 2008
- Rep: 1
Re: Chinese Democracy's Fate
No album release ever without Slash and Duff at a minimum. I've been saying it for years and I still stand by that.
This album will never warrant the endless wait or live up to its expectation.
The risk is just too great and there is no way Axl is going to ever find the courage to take this gamble on his own.
Answer in short, certain original lineup members not present = no album, ever.
bba
Re: Chinese Democracy's Fate
Answer in short, certain original lineup members not present = no album, ever.
I remember Bono having some theory regarding that at the old site. Said something about if the album is ever released, Slash, Duff, and (maybe Adler or Sorum)will have contributed to it.
I don't really buy that theory myself, but of course anything is possible regarding this bizarre saga.
Re: Chinese Democracy's Fate
i'm gonna be optimistic and say it gets released this year...
i'm gonna be optimistic and say it gets released this year...
i'm gonna be optimistic and say it gets released this year...
i'm gonna be optimistic and say it gets released this year...
Someday that's going to work! I think that if the album's not back in Axl's hands by the end of the year (for subsequent rework, of course) then the album will likely come out this year. If it's in the label's hands, it's only a matter of time before it's unleashed, one way or another. I can't fathom why they'd hold the album for an extended period of time. Unless of course, they're shopping the GNR contract and albums around to other companies. If that's the case, we're probably in for the long haul.
Here's a marketing idea... release the bloody thing on vinyl first. Anyone who wants to own the album first will have to buy it in that form or download shitty quality MP3s. After a couple of weeks, release it in other forms. If that doesn't work, you've learned your lesson. The big hope of course is that they don't spend more on production, shipping, and advertising than they're going to bring in on album sales. Anything made above that will give them some sort of revenue to offset the costs.
Re: Chinese Democracy's Fate
It isn't finished until it leaks in full or is available for purchase. While it might be finished for real this time, I wouldn't wager money on it. In the GNR world, something can go from finished to unfinished in the blink of an eye.
Wasn't it Jim Cameron who said films aren't finished, they're abandoned? The same analogy could be used on CD; it'll be finished once Axl will stop working on it. None of the leaks are "finished" tracks, despite they can be downloaded from numerous p2p networks. OMG isn't a "finished" track in Axl's mind, even though it's widely available on the End of Days soundtrack.
Currently, it appears Axl has an album consisting of 13 tracks, on which he doesn't do any more work. Therefore, the album is currently finished (in other words, 'abandoned'). If there are delays or if Axl finds it hard to sell his concept of the modern GNR sound to Universal, he may have second thoughts about the work laid down so far, and takes steps to work on it some more.
The album was almost finished in late '99. The album was almost finished again in early/mid '00. Again almost in early '02. Almost in '06. It's a question of creating something one personally thinks lives up to both internal and external expectations. The more time a finished is allowed to sit on a shelf for whatever reason, the more any sense of accomplishment will dry out, dissatisfaction occurs, new ideas arise. Releasing it and getting over it was the advice Moby once gave Axl, and it's actually a good one. But Axl can't go back and release something that was perfected and finalized 6-8 years ago.
The bulk of the currently used recordings are from 2003-4 era, with most of 2005 spent with alternative mixes, etc. Much of the music obviously predates that period, but the album(s) that'll eventually surface is most likely to consist of recordings made after the '02 tour. As Axl himself took over the producing duties in early '02, there less of a chance for the project to be completely rebooted at this point, as he no longer has to start reworking somebody else's work. Sean Beavan inherited a mish-mash of recordings made at The Complex and Rumbo Recoders with Mike Clink, Youth and Moby in attendance. Roy Thomas Baker inherited Beavan's album with Buckethead to be included on it, before schratching everything (Bob Ezrin, please stand up) and starting again. Axl inherited RTB's album before scratching it and starting again.
"I don't want to be in a situation again where I have to depend on other people and have [to] start all over." - Axl, 1999
Unfortunately, whenever you collaborate with a producer for several years, the material will carry his mark long after he himself is gone. Subsequent producers are somewhat limited in terms of contributing their own ideas, as they have to keep an eye on what's been done before and have to amalgamate their own handywork into a framework which by then has already been worked into a near-finished product with his predecessor. Therefore, the fact of Axl producing brings much-needed continuity into the project as the only way for him to be disbanded would be the record company seizing the masters and releasing an album on their own.
While the album can currently still slide back to mixing stage (or god forbid, recording), it is reasonable to doubt the whole of the work would be scrapped again. Times have changed. Axl no longer possesses the production machine and unlimited financial resources he once had, he's not getting any younger and meanwhile the record industry has been through a lot since the introduction of Napster. Currently, the industry is waking up to ask themselves the dreaded question; "Are physical discs an obsolete medium?"
A little-known fact is that Axl, inadvertently, perfected the Radiohead release route by leaking bits and pieces of the the album and allowing people to 'support' by enabling them to attend shows and buy merchandise. If you like the music, you'll go see them and buy the shirt. The label doesn't get a dollar for it. With touring and merchandise already becoming more profitable to recording artists than the actual record sales, such an approach brings the future of Axl (along with many others) to the hands of the fans. Further recording into the years to come takes money, and the only way Axl gets such amounts to the war chest anymore is through touring. The only (usual) continent they haven't been to recently is South America, as Oceania, Europe and NA are currently a bit oversaturated for another retro event by the new band.
But if you think about it, the leaks are the ideal clandestine preview to get people into 'sponsoring' CD. By supporting the tour, you'll get a Greatest Hits show with a few of new tracks thrown in, and contribute into the mixing and mastering expenses of the finished versions of the said leaks.
I just don't see the point in the saga continuing past 08 if an album hasn't materialized.
A new leak would help. Something big enough to prove without a shadow of a doubt whatever potential lied within the chiefly-recording lineup (i.e. the '01 tour lineup).
Re: Chinese Democracy's Fate
Great post, but I'm getting tired and gonna comment on that last part....
We already know the potential of the 01 lineup. As much as I love that lineup, I would like to hear a track that has BBF and Frank contributing to see if these additions were even necessary.
Re: Chinese Democracy's Fate
We already know the potential of the 01 lineup.
We have been given a glimpse with tracks such as The Blues and TWAT, but Axl's still to give the public something truly epic, which would raise them on top of the old band. There's a possibility even bigger guns exists, but not so much as a note of them has been heard publically. No matter how you'll slice it, Axl's smart enough to feed the masses only with guns 'big enough', with the sole intention of raising public interest on the body of the work, which would be fully unveiled as the album is released. Think of it in the lines of releasing the first 20 minutes of A Scanner Darkly or The Devil's Rejects online as free, extended teasers. You'll get the idea of what the story's about, get into the premise and realize the overall mood. The minute you're really getting soaked into it, the teaser ends and you're left with en masse of could-be potential, promises of coming attractions, which, in comparison, would leave anything you've just experienced a mere trifle when considering the opus as a whole, as an overture which grabs your attention yet overshadows the crescendo is a failed one. Any proper film, novel or a musical piece is an artistic journey, which leads one from one place to another, and during this time subjects one to emotional and intellectual stimuli, afterwhich one "walks away from the party, stunned, and awakes in the next morning a sadder man and wiser man", as Coleridge put it.
Fortunately Axl isn't a classical composer. There's hardly a person in the Western world who hasn't heard the sonata allegro of Beethoven's Fifth, but how many people can claim to listened the whole of the work? A case-in-point example of situations in which the most oft-played part (I stress the fact that it's merely a faction) becomes synonymous to the whole, and because of this, somewhat devalues of the whole in which it has been implemented to. It's a difficult situation. I'm not particularly comparing Axl to Beethoven in terms of musical achievement or overall talent, but am somewhat against the radio-culture of the end of the 20th century, which coined whole albums on singles best suited for mass consumption. One aspect by which Axl might be eligible to be compared to the musical heavyweights of history is his undeniable dedication, which began to surface as he grew out of the initial glam rock mould and started to push the envelope of his own musical direction. Unfortunately for him, the UYI's suffered from the internal turmoil already developing within the group, and he himself admitted people were 'blackmailing' each other in order to get them on their songs. The sessions in '96 were seemingly on the other end of the spectrum, to try and make a classic rock album with hard, short and angry songs, with a "no ballads" approach, a decision which was definetly either an appeasement effort by Axl or a direct jab from the rest of the band directed straight at him.
CD will stand as a state evidence as to whether Axl truly has the musical range to justify going on it alone, or whether the old band, while generally feeling uncomfortable in stepping out of their comfort zone, would've done just as well in supporting him. One can say many things about players such as Robin and Bucket, but one can hardly blame them for being too conventional, while Slash, a noteworthy lead guitarist on his own right, is still self-admittedly more a one-trick pony. Axl built a new group from the ground up for a reason, seeking out people that would be compensate his personal ambitions. While we're not going to get an album full of November Rains, Axl's still the one to face the music. If the new album fails to bring out (or top) what has so far been considered the best of Axl in terms of musical direction and lyrics, it'll unfortunately be deemed a failure, as the price was the communication breakdown with the rest of the old band, which, to his credit, was already well into coming off at the seams.
So no, I don't think we know the whole of their potential. We've been merely led to imagine what could be on the basis of what has been so far.
- Gunslinger
- Rep: 88
Re: Chinese Democracy's Fate
That was yet another excellent post sic. I have always believed that the leaks were intentional and originated from none other than Axl. When Axl appeared at 5:30 am with a couple of friends at the club Stereo back in 06 he offered a private listening in exchange for admission and a closed party. At first it may have sounded like some partying led to a bad decision but I think it was very much a calculated move. Soon after this we have leaks. The leaks have always been to measure public opinion and even more important (as you stated very effectively) to "sponsor" CD as well as to simply earn Axl some more cash. The leaks resparked interest in CD and I personally feel helped push better sales for concert tickets.
Re: Chinese Democracy's Fate
That was yet another excellent post sic. I have always believed that the leaks were intentional and originated from none other than Axl. When Axl appeared at 5:30 am with a couple of friends at the club Stereo back in 06 he offered a private listening in exchange for admission and a closed party. At first it may have sounded like some partying led to a bad decision but I think it was very much a calculated move. Soon after this we have leaks. The leaks have always been to measure public opinion and even more important (as you stated very effectively) to "sponsor" CD as well as to simply earn Axl some more cash. The leaks resparked interest in CD and I personally feel helped push better sales for concert tickets.
Apparently not enough though because he canceled the concert I was going to! 
