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Re: GN'R Twitter Updates
You know it fucking stuns me beyond all belief that we're actually still having this conversation.
You people assume way too much that some of us "people that can't back up anything" have had conversations with other people other than forum nerds that actually worked/work with the mother fucker.
But the experts can continue their circle jerk.
nobody said they were an expert, you are claiming Axl lied about the Philly incident. You have NOTHING to back that up. One of my best buddies worked for Clear Channel then and still works for Live Nation now. He has an idea of what went on. Clear Channel was losing money on the tour. Those are facts and was looking to cancel the tour. Axl, as usual, provides plenty of ammo to help their cause.
It is very plausible that Clear Channel wanted to cancel the tour due to poor ticket sales. That was the rumbling in the industry at the fuckin' time. They had the right to cancel the tour and they eventually did.
Sounds more like poor wording on Axl's part..."wanted the tour to fail" actually, in his world without admitting failure, means wanted to cancel the tour.
I am not getting in to Axl's personal relationships or am going to debate his other statements from the past. He lives in his own little world and has a pretty warped sense of reality. I don't know how honest Axl is and don't really care. I do believe there is some form of truth to the things he says. He's too smart to completely lie all the time so he just twists things around to fit his agenda....kinda like Slash!
- Intercourse
- Rep: 212
Re: GN'R Twitter Updates
I doubt companies like Clear Channel / Live Nation etc are in any way hesitant to cancel whatever the fuck they want while looking you in the eye when they do it.
If the $$$ made no sense I'd say they would call it as such. Was Axl not on some enormous per gig fee at the time and would not row back on that when asked to because the numbers didn't add?
My take on it is that he went off in a huff when they told him they wouldn't continue to pay at that rate and after the riot they said 'fuck it' and did the same..
Re: GN'R Twitter Updates
You know it fucking stuns me beyond all belief that we're actually still having this conversation.
You people assume way too much that some of us "people that can't back up anything" have had conversations with other people other than forum nerds that actually worked/work with the mother fucker.
But the experts can continue their circle jerk.
Do you know for a fact that he was not sick that day? If not, then you are mistaken in saying it is an "obvious lie". It's really that simple.
The band members leaving have nothing to do with what happened in Philly. So, that's a completely irrelevant point.
I don't consider myself an expert in any way, shape or form. I just think to say a guy is lying about how being sick some day back in 2002, you have to know for a fact that he wasn't, that's all.
Ali
Re: GN'R Twitter Updates
I doubt companies like Clear Channel / Live Nation etc are in any way hesitant to cancel whatever the fuck they want while looking you in the eye when they do it.
If the $$$ made no sense I'd say they would call it as such. Was Axl not on some enormous per gig fee at the time and would not row back on that when asked to because the numbers didn't add?My take on it is that he went off in a huff when they told him they wouldn't continue to pay at that rate and after the riot they said 'fuck it' and did the same..
There were rumors that GN'R had a sizable per gig guarantee. But, I think you're wrong on the last point as the per gig fee was negotiated and set in stone via contract prior to the tour and could not be amended afterwards. I'm sorry, but I think that scenario is completely unlikely. They couldn't back out of something agreed to in a contract simply because of how it was turning out for them. Hence, the motivation for wanting to cancel the tour.
Ali
Re: GN'R Twitter Updates
I doubt companies like Clear Channel / Live Nation etc are in any way hesitant to cancel whatever the fuck they want while looking you in the eye when they do it.
If the $$$ made no sense I'd say they would call it as such. Was Axl not on some enormous per gig fee at the time and would not row back on that when asked to because the numbers didn't add?My take on it is that he went off in a huff when they told him they wouldn't continue to pay at that rate and after the riot they said 'fuck it' and did the same..
You are in the right park. They were getting a huge fee upfront at the time ($400,000 to $500,000). I know that from my buddy who was involved directly with the Atlanta promoter for Clear Channel at the time in 2002. If you remember, Atlanta wasn't booked on that US tour. Why? Because the Atlanta promoter saw no profit in the fee vs ticket sales for a third generation Gnr. He was right. He also said Gnr was a complete pain in the ass to deal with back on the Illusion tours and he wanted nothing to do with them.
I imagine Clear Channel wanted to renegotiate fees for the remainder of the tour, Axl said "fuck you pay me" and Clear Channel said "fuck you we will cancel the tour".
So, JR, my EDUCATED guess is yes, Clear Channel wanted the tour to fail because they couldn't find a way to make any money. Plus, after shit like Vancouver and poor initial ticket sales outside of a few markets, who could blame them? They aren't a charity. Truth lies somewhere in the middle. I stand my ground. 
Re: GN'R Twitter Updates
Intercourse wrote:I doubt companies like Clear Channel / Live Nation etc are in any way hesitant to cancel whatever the fuck they want while looking you in the eye when they do it.
If the $$$ made no sense I'd say they would call it as such. Was Axl not on some enormous per gig fee at the time and would not row back on that when asked to because the numbers didn't add?My take on it is that he went off in a huff when they told him they wouldn't continue to pay at that rate and after the riot they said 'fuck it' and did the same..
You are in the right park. They were getting a huge fee upfront at the time ($400,000 to $500,000). I know that from my buddy who was involved directly with the Atlanta promoter for Clear Channel at the time in 2002. If you remember, Atlanta wasn't booked on that US tour. Why? Because the Atlanta promoter saw no profit in the fee vs ticket sales for a third generation Gnr. He was right. He also said Gnr was a complete pain in the ass to deal with back on the Illusion tours and he wanted nothing to do with them.
I imagine Clear Channel wanted to renegotiate fees for the remainder of the tour, Axl said "fuck you pay me" and Clear Channel said "fuck you we will cancel the tour".
So, JR, my EDUCATED guess is yes, Clear Channel wanted the tour to fail because they couldn't find a way to make any money. Plus, after shit like Vancouver and poor initial ticket sales outside of a few markets, who could blame them? They aren't a charity. Truth lies somewhere in the middle. I stand my ground.
I hear what you're saying that CC may have wanted to try and renegotiate a lower per gig guarantee, but that simply could not have said, "We are now paying you a lower a per gig guarantee." If it was a guaranteed number, which I'd bet any sum of money it was, they couldn't simply change their minds without violating the terms of the contract.
I stand my ground that unless you have proof that he was not in fact ill as he claims now and was announced in the venue in Philly when it was announced GN'R wasn't playing that night, you cannot say what he said was a lie.
Ali
Re: GN'R Twitter Updates
it was a guaranteed number but CC had the ability to cancel...that is the rub. No clue how it ended up being settled. However, I am quite sure it was because Axl and the band did not talk about what happened for years due to some form of ongoing settlement discussions and litigation. Anyhow, ancient history.
Re: GN'R Twitter Updates
Axlin12 wrote:You know it fucking stuns me beyond all belief that we're actually still having this conversation.
You people assume way too much that some of us "people that can't back up anything" have had conversations with other people other than forum nerds that actually worked/work with the mother fucker.
But the experts can continue their circle jerk.
nobody said they were an expert, you are claiming Axl lied about the Philly incident. You have NOTHING to back that up. One of my best buddies worked for Clear Channel then and still works for Live Nation now. He has an idea of what went on. Clear Channel was losing money on the tour. Those are facts and was looking to cancel the tour. Axl, as usual, provides plenty of ammo to help their cause.
It is very plausible that Clear Channel wanted to cancel the tour due to poor ticket sales. That was the rumbling in the industry at the fuckin' time. They had the right to cancel the tour and they eventually did.
Sounds more like poor wording on Axl's part..."wanted the tour to fail" actually, in his world without admitting failure, means wanted to cancel the tour.
I am not getting in to Axl's personal relationships or am going to debate his other statements from the past. He lives in his own little world and has a pretty warped sense of reality. I don't know how honest Axl is and don't really care. I do believe there is some form of truth to the things he says. He's too smart to completely lie all the time so he just twists things around to fit his agenda....kinda like Slash!
How is that different from what I already said?
Intercourse wrote:I doubt companies like Clear Channel / Live Nation etc are in any way hesitant to cancel whatever the fuck they want while looking you in the eye when they do it.
If the $$$ made no sense I'd say they would call it as such. Was Axl not on some enormous per gig fee at the time and would not row back on that when asked to because the numbers didn't add?My take on it is that he went off in a huff when they told him they wouldn't continue to pay at that rate and after the riot they said 'fuck it' and did the same..
You are in the right park. They were getting a huge fee upfront at the time ($400,000 to $500,000). I know that from my buddy who was involved directly with the Atlanta promoter for Clear Channel at the time in 2002. If you remember, Atlanta wasn't booked on that US tour. Why? Because the Atlanta promoter saw no profit in the fee vs ticket sales for a third generation Gnr. He was right. He also said Gnr was a complete pain in the ass to deal with back on the Illusion tours and he wanted nothing to do with them.
I imagine Clear Channel wanted to renegotiate fees for the remainder of the tour, Axl said "fuck you pay me" and Clear Channel said "fuck you we will cancel the tour".
So, JR, my EDUCATED guess is yes, Clear Channel wanted the tour to fail because they couldn't find a way to make any money. Plus, after shit like Vancouver and poor initial ticket sales outside of a few markets, who could blame them? They aren't a charity. Truth lies somewhere in the middle. I stand my ground.
That makes more sense.
But under that theory, it makes "sick" just as much as a fake excuse as "Lakers basketball".
Axl S said it best, Axl is the boy who cried wolf. He's done it too many times, and i'm sorry if people want to believe him, go ahead. Plenty of people still believe Newt Gingrich, who's about as trustworthy.
And yes I agree on the Slash analogy, but Slash's statements don't sound like a spoiled child. Axl's do. Axl's statements are constantly the same thing, everyone is out to get him... I figured that would've gotten old 25 years ago. It's tired and pathetic at this point.
That's all I was ever trying to convey.
Re: GN'R Twitter Updates
madagas wrote:Axlin12 wrote:You know it fucking stuns me beyond all belief that we're actually still having this conversation.
You people assume way too much that some of us "people that can't back up anything" have had conversations with other people other than forum nerds that actually worked/work with the mother fucker.
But the experts can continue their circle jerk.
nobody said they were an expert, you are claiming Axl lied about the Philly incident. You have NOTHING to back that up. One of my best buddies worked for Clear Channel then and still works for Live Nation now. He has an idea of what went on. Clear Channel was losing money on the tour. Those are facts and was looking to cancel the tour. Axl, as usual, provides plenty of ammo to help their cause.
It is very plausible that Clear Channel wanted to cancel the tour due to poor ticket sales. That was the rumbling in the industry at the fuckin' time. They had the right to cancel the tour and they eventually did.
Sounds more like poor wording on Axl's part..."wanted the tour to fail" actually, in his world without admitting failure, means wanted to cancel the tour.
I am not getting in to Axl's personal relationships or am going to debate his other statements from the past. He lives in his own little world and has a pretty warped sense of reality. I don't know how honest Axl is and don't really care. I do believe there is some form of truth to the things he says. He's too smart to completely lie all the time so he just twists things around to fit his agenda....kinda like Slash!
How is that different from what I already said?
madagas wrote:Intercourse wrote:I doubt companies like Clear Channel / Live Nation etc are in any way hesitant to cancel whatever the fuck they want while looking you in the eye when they do it.
If the $$$ made no sense I'd say they would call it as such. Was Axl not on some enormous per gig fee at the time and would not row back on that when asked to because the numbers didn't add?My take on it is that he went off in a huff when they told him they wouldn't continue to pay at that rate and after the riot they said 'fuck it' and did the same..
You are in the right park. They were getting a huge fee upfront at the time ($400,000 to $500,000). I know that from my buddy who was involved directly with the Atlanta promoter for Clear Channel at the time in 2002. If you remember, Atlanta wasn't booked on that US tour. Why? Because the Atlanta promoter saw no profit in the fee vs ticket sales for a third generation Gnr. He was right. He also said Gnr was a complete pain in the ass to deal with back on the Illusion tours and he wanted nothing to do with them.
I imagine Clear Channel wanted to renegotiate fees for the remainder of the tour, Axl said "fuck you pay me" and Clear Channel said "fuck you we will cancel the tour".
So, JR, my EDUCATED guess is yes, Clear Channel wanted the tour to fail because they couldn't find a way to make any money. Plus, after shit like Vancouver and poor initial ticket sales outside of a few markets, who could blame them? They aren't a charity. Truth lies somewhere in the middle. I stand my ground.
That makes more sense.
But under that theory, it makes "sick" just as much as a fake excuse as "Lakers basketball".
Axl S said it best, Axl is the boy who cried wolf. He's done it too many times, and i'm sorry if people want to believe him, go ahead. Plenty of people still believe Newt Gingrich, who's about as trustworthy.
And yes I agree on the Slash analogy, but Slash's statements don't sound like a spoiled child. Axl's do. Axl's statements are constantly the same thing, everyone is out to get him... I figured that would've gotten old 25 years ago. It's tired and pathetic at this point.
That's all I was ever trying to convey.
No, I still don't get the sickness as being "fake". The reason why Axl did not perform that night could be a completely separate issue from why the entire remainder of the tour was cancelled.
The reason why Axl couldn't perform that night was because he was sick. Clear Channel, frustrated by the overall tour performance, and the inability to make money on that Philly show with a cancellation a final straw, cancels the tour being GN'R will not back down from a previously agreed upon guaranteed payment per show. That is an entirely plausible scenario, IMO.
Ali
