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Re: The last minutes in Philly
I've been looking into putting the CD history from the ROV days back together again. Quite a lot of work, that one, as there were any backups; the whole thing always existed solely in cyberspace. Some of those things have since passed on to the great beyond, as they can no longer be found via Google or Internet Archive.
Which is a bummer.
But I figured I could whip out something to cover the fifth studio album's history from '94 up to late '02. The silent era is what took most of the blow with the awol sources, before that, GNR's progress (or lack of thereof) has been well-publicized in various media outlets.
Meanwhile, I ran into a couple of little things on Philly '02. They fit together quite nicely and accomodate each other, which is why I decided to plaster them together for the hell of it. Of course, we don't find out whether Axl refused to do the show because he was watching a Lakers game, got depressed because of a review at the Howard Stern show, or wasn't let into a nightclub the previous night because he was wearing a fur.
But that's really inconsequential. Philly was squarely Axl's fault, while Clear Channel were the ones cutting off the remainder of the tour. After having heard what people like Tom Zutaut, Youth and Moby had said about Axl's mental well-being little before that time, it's not a stretch to picture him to have been in a very sensitive state during the '02 tour.
Blender has discovered that Rose sulked and was depressed following the previous night's triumphant return to a sold-out Madison Square Garden in New York City. - Blender
According to Philadelphia news stations, the opening act at the First Union Center date performed for two hours before the show was called off. - Billboard, 12/21/02
* * *
"We were informed around 8 p.m. or so [Friday night] that Axl Rose was still in Manhattan and a helicopter was being sent to get him," explains Peter Luukko, president of Comcast-Spectacor Ventures and chairman of Global Spectrum, management company for the First Union Center. - Billboard
With a helicopter waiting on the rooftop of his hotel to take him on a brief 40-minute flight to Philadelphia for that night's show at the First Union Center, a dispirited Rose refused to budge. - Blender
"I went to the GUNS N' ROSES show tonight at the First Union Center in Philly, it was sold out and everything. Well, I got there at around 8:30 and MIX MASTER MIKE was still on stage. He kept saying how GUNS N' ROSES would be on in a minute, yet never left the stage for another 30-45 minutes. Everyone started kidding around saying that Axl wouldn't show up again. Well, MIX MASTER MIKE ended at around 9:15-9:30." - Blabbermouth
* * *
Things went awry shortly after the opening act, Mix Master Mike, ended its set about 9:45. Witnesses said about a half-hour later, fans began to realize something was amiss when stagehands began packing up their equipment and leaving. - Philly.com, 12/07/02
"At 10, no sign of the show starting. Word was spreading that Axl hadn't arrived yet. Then we found out that the First Union Center had put a stop on all beer sales '” kind of odd for them to do so before the main act went on. So it got to be 10:30, and still no band - people were starting to see what was coming. In between every song that was being played, the booing got louder and louder, and chants of 'asshole' began that were really loud. At that point, you knew GUNS N' ROSES wouldn't be playing." - Blabbermouth
* * *
Promoter Clear Channel and venue managers Comcast-Spectator set a firm deadline of 10:45pm for Rose to say whether or not he would show up to play. Rose's longtime manager, Doug Goldstein, reached at Rose's New York hotel room, glumly reported 'He's not coming.' - Blender
"Basically we were in touch with band management as to what the progress was, and at 10:45 we were informed [Rose] wasn't coming." - Billboard
* * *
Venue representatives boosted security to avoid a repeat of the riot that occurred when GN'R failed to turn up for their opening-night show in Vancouver on November 7. - Blender
"At that point a decision was made to make an announcement at 11:15, giving us a half-hour to get security in place and police backup from the city of Philadelphia," Luukko says. - Billboard
"Finally, when people saw the soundboard guys cover up their equipment, all hell broke loose. People started ripping binoculars off the seats and throwing them down on the floor, people were chucking their drinks and food at security around the stage as they took the equipment away, people rushed the stage, a fight broke out, folding chairs were turned into launching pads." - Blabbermouth
* * *
At 11:15, the 15,000 strong audience was told the show was not going to happen 'due to illness in the band.' Fans were asked not to take their anger out on the staff or the facility. Some of them threw chairs and attacked the lighting, sound, and video crews, but no arrests or injuries were reported. - Blender
"An announcement FINALLY came on at around 11:15 saying that the show had been cancelled due to 'health reasons' and that tickets were valid whenever the show would be rescheduled. - Blabbermouth
"It's very simple. We were informed Axl was ill and wasn't going to appear in the building, and we made an announcement," said Peter Luukko, president of Comcast Spectacor Ventures, which owns and operates the center. - Philly.com
"That really set people off, and chairs started flying at the soundboard and up on stage. It was not a pretty site. However, a good amount of people did leave and outside seemed to be quite calm in comparison to what was happening inside. There was a large police presence outside, but thankfully they were not instigating anything with angry fans. Who knows what happened, but I can tell you while I'm shocked, I'm certainly not surprised. I also think Philadelphia fans handled the situation quite well considering the circumstances and the past history with riots." - Blabbermouth
"We did have some chairs thrown and some damage in the building, but all in all, considering the difficulty of the situation, we were able to get people out with no major injuries." - Billboard
* * *
Attendance at other venues was underwhelming according to figures reported to Pollstar, ticket sales for the tour's first 10 dates averaged 7,344 a night for arenas that hold between 15,000 and 20,000. - Blender
Several shows did come off, albeit to mixed critical and commercial reception. Nine shows reported to Billboard Boxscores grossed $3,228,311 and sold 70,086 tickets out of a possible 118,611 capacity, topped by $733,525 from 13,639 at Allstate Arena near Chicago. - Billboard
Re: The last minutes in Philly
Attendance at other venues was underwhelming according to figures reported to Pollstar, ticket sales for the tour's first 10 dates averaged 7,344 a night for arenas that hold between 15,000 and 20,000. - Blender
i wonder how this compares to the 2006 figures....i know that lots of european dates were festivals...so its hard to calculate....but do you know how the two years compare?
Several shows did come off, albeit to mixed critical and commercial reception. Nine shows reported to Billboard Boxscores grossed $3,228,311 and sold 70,086 tickets out of a possible 118,611 capacity, topped by $733,525 from 13,639 at Allstate Arena near Chicago. - Billboard
shit, touring is easy money....
- A Private Eye
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Re: The last minutes in Philly
The show I attended in 06 was at the MEN arena in Manchester and until the 02 arena opened it was the largest indoor arena in Europe. Capacity for a rock show there is approx 18-19,000 and at the GNR show I saw it was practically full, only a few of the highest and furthest back seats remained empty. I appreciate thought that the American market is different to the UK and Europe.
Re: The last minutes in Philly
excellent post sic!
the toronto 02 show was the one i went to and it was packed....Axl said something to the effect of "I'm here with 16,000 freinds tonight"
how can chicago be highest gorssing at only 13,000 + unless the tickets there were more $$$ than other venues
i didnt realize that the attendance in the other shows was an average of 7,000 cuz i know NYC was sold out, Toronto was sold out or very close, Philly was sold out, Chicago was sold out, i think London Ontario was sold out (But its a small venue) ....so anyway like at least 3 shows of the large arenas were sold out so the other venues must have been really bad attendance 
Re: The last minutes in Philly
Because that is not all the shows and doesn't include Boston, New York and Toronto. 2002 US Tour played 16 shows at an average of 8600 per night. 2006 US/NA Tour averaged about 8400-8500. Roughly the same. I have posted this info close to 20 times on this board but it always gets erased when changes come.:haha: The sources for this was Billboard and Pollstar......I don't have them anymore so you will have to trust me.
As far as the 2006 European stand alone shows, they did much better than the 2006 US stand alones. Nobody has exact figures for that to my knowledge.
Re: The last minutes in Philly
i heard there were about 14.000 people at their show in nijmegen....
the european dates sold pretty well and were mostly sold out or close to it i think... shows like the one in nijmegen couldn`t sell out anyways... it was just a big field basically. gnr played there in front of 60.000 in 1993 i think.
Re: The last minutes in Philly
One needs to put the Pollstar and Billboard numbers into perspective. Pollstar recorded first ten shows, which is from Vancouver (or Tacoma) to Cleveland (or Columbus). That leaves shows like Toronto, Boston and New York down for a count. Billboard on the other hand, recorded nine shows (out of sixteen).
Pollstar's average for ten shows was at 7,344 attendants; this equals a total amount of 73,440 tickets. Billboard's nine shows reported 70,086 tickets sold. Vancouver was estimated to have had around 8000-9000 concert goers present before the cancellation. So it's a bit tricky to compare those numbers.
But anyone, who still thinks the '02 tour ticket sales stank all the way to high heaven, should read this first:
Tickets for the North American leg of the GUNS N' ROSES 'Chinese Democracy' World Tour went on sale this weekend in New York, Chicago, Philadelphia and Boston with an overwhelming response from ticket buyers. The New York date set for December 5 at Madison Square Garden sold out in fifteen minutes with the other cities doing close to capacity business. 'We are thrilled with the sales,' stated Arthur Fogel, president of Clear Channel Entertainment's Touring Division. 'We knew this was going to be a big tour but this even exceeded our expectations.' - 10/01/02
The final Pollstar numbers, which cover all 16 shows actually played, show an average of 8,660 tickets sold per show with a total amount of 138,564, with the average gross of $404,611.
Compare this to the first 10 shows (again, with Pollstar numbers):
First 10 shows sold 73,440 tickets, with an average of 7,344 tickets per show.
Last 6 shows sold 65,124 tickets, with an average of 10,854 tickets per show.
Ok, now you're going to say MSG distorted the numbers, as it was "the easy sell-out." If on full capacity, MSG holds 20,000 attendants. Scratch that from the amount and divide by five shows.
From Albany to Hartford, 45,124 tickets sold, with an average of 9,025 ticket per show.
So yeah, MSG does affect, but so does Columbus, the first of the last six shows. It had an attendance of roughly 6,000. Note that and the four shows leading up to MSG averaged with a near 10,000 concert-goers.
The tour was definetly picking during the final shows, once they started to hit the population centers.
Re: The last minutes in Philly
I have a friend who works for Live Nation....his boss was dealing with Gnr in 2002 and Gnr was demanding between $400,000-$500,000 guaranteed money per show. The Atlanta promoter passed on the show. Now, look at the average gross of only $404,000, plus a few riots, and you see why THE PROMOTER cancelled the tour. Too much risk and uncertainty with Axl not to make any profit. 
