You are not logged in. Please register or login.
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
Re: Moscow, Russia (2 Show Discussion)
Ali wrote:russtcb wrote:Ah. I've heard this exact quote from another person before and it's as incorrect now as it was then. See, you're not seeing anyone here complain about a show their not at. You're seeing people complain about the state of arrested development that GN'R seems to be in.
I'm a big "set list defender" and even I think maybe it's time to stop playing the same ol' same old.
To clarify even further, complaining about a show they're aren't at would be more like complaining about the quality of Axl's vocals, the poor sound mix or the way a band member was playing something all based on a YouTube clip or something like that.
With all due respect, Russ, I have to disagree. A comment like "100% cash grab" implies to me (at least) that the band came out and played with no to minimal effort and just went through the motions so to speak. The problem with that is that cannot be discerned through a setlist alone. Hence, I do feel that is criticizing a show one is not at.
As far as the arrested development, I don't see how that can be stated to be the case when we know for a fact they have been working on a new album, per Richard Fortus. If one means the setlist specifically, that is another story, and obviously that hasn't changed much since the NA tours. But, the Russian and European crowds didn't get to hear "Estranged" or "Civil War" in 2010.
Ali
The term "cash grab" in this particular thread was used specifically about the set list. The way you can tell is that no one spoke about GN'R performance or effort. The thing that was being discussed was the set list.
And if all you have to lean on as proof that they're moving forward is a quote from Richard Fortus saying they're working on a new album, you are armed with quite the weak argument.
And you're preaching to the choir in regards to the "well, they've added this, that or the other song since the last tour" however, the Russian crowd didn't even get Civil War and You're Crazy that those of us in North America did.
The long and the short of it is this; I believe users should be allowed to voice their opinion on the state of GN'R here. If it's negative and they've got an argument to back it up, then great, let's have a discussion. If you, I or anyone else disagrees and has an argument to back it up, now we're cooking.
But to stop by and accuse the user base of doing something they're not? That I won't let fly. To many intelligent folks on this board often well armed with a fantastic line of reasoning to watch them have to put up with that.
And where did I say one should not be allowed to voice their opinion on the state of GN'R?
And, again, I have to disagree with your interpretation of how the term cash grab was meant (edit: or what my initial interpretation of how it was meant). Or, am I not allowed to have my own opinion and interpretation of what that comment meant?
As I said to the other poster, that was not directed at the "user base". You are now doing exactly what you accused DCK of, painting with a broad brush.
I realize that it may not have been clear from my initial post that I was reacting and referring to Mikka's post, but I since clarified that in the post you just quoted. So, sorry, but you are incorrect in stating I'm accusing the "user base" as a whole of anything.
Ali
Re: Moscow, Russia (2 Show Discussion)
Ali wrote:russtcb wrote:Ah. I've heard this exact quote from another person before and it's as incorrect now as it was then. See, you're not seeing anyone here complain about a show their not at. You're seeing people complain about the state of arrested development that GN'R seems to be in.
I'm a big "set list defender" and even I think maybe it's time to stop playing the same ol' same old.
To clarify even further, complaining about a show they're aren't at would be more like complaining about the quality of Axl's vocals, the poor sound mix or the way a band member was playing something all based on a YouTube clip or something like that.
With all due respect, Russ, I have to disagree. A comment like "100% cash grab" implies to me (at least) that the band came out and played with no to minimal effort and just went through the motions so to speak. The problem with that is that cannot be discerned through a setlist alone. Hence, I do feel that is criticizing a show one is not at.
As far as the arrested development, I don't see how that can be stated to be the case when we know for a fact they have been working on a new album, per Richard Fortus. If one means the setlist specifically, that is another story, and obviously that hasn't changed much since the NA tours. But, the Russian and European crowds didn't get to hear "Estranged" or "Civil War" in 2010.
Ali
The term "cash grab" in this particular thread was used specifically about the set list. The way you can tell is that no one spoke about GN'R performance or effort. The thing that was being discussed was the set list.
And if all you have to lean on as proof that they're moving forward is a quote from Richard Fortus saying they're working on a new album, you are armed with quite the weak argument.
And you're preaching to the choir in regards to the "well, they've added this, that or the other song since the last tour" however, the Russian crowd didn't even get Civil War and You're Crazy that those of us in North America did.
The long and the short of it is this; I believe users should be allowed to voice their opinion on the state of GN'R here. If it's negative and they've got an argument to back it up, then great, let's have a discussion. If you, I or anyone else disagrees and has an argument to back it up, now we're cooking.
But to stop by and accuse the user base of doing something they're not? That I won't let fly. To many intelligent folks on this board often well armed with a fantastic line of reasoning to watch them have to put up with that.
Not saying I'm of the intelligent kind, but I've seen GN'R in Rio 2001, Porto Alegre 2010, been following all the tours and concerts since Vegas 2000/2001 and I'm done.
I've said already that I've travelled 2000 miles to see them in Rio in 2001. I'm flying 6000 miles in June to catch Tom Petty in Hamburg.
While in Europe GNR will play THREE times close to me as a walk in the park (really, in Milan it's on the same block as my hostel) and I won't be attending because I won't handle money to Axl. He had my devotion, he had me following and believing in him for all of his craziness. I've justified his behavior, late starts, actions, his belief in Chinese Democracy but if that guy doesn't want to move on, who am I to shove it down his throat?
I'll only be excited by new music. That's all there's left now.
He was able to even lose his enigmatic figure. Today is far more common to see Axl Rose in concert than to catch a good movie on the Theaters.
Re: Moscow, Russia (2 Show Discussion)
I have to tell you that my main problem is not with the setlist.
If they'd dig out of the back catalogue Back Off Bitch, Reckless Life, Double Talkin Jive, Shadow of Your Love, whatever... I would be here posting the same shit!
It's not time anymore for Axl to look back. He has to man up and look forward.
Re: Moscow, Russia (2 Show Discussion)
Ali wrote:russtcb wrote:The term "cash grab" in this particular thread was used specifically about the set list. The way you can tell is that no one spoke about GN'R performance or effort. The thing that was being discussed was the set list.
And if all you have to lean on as proof that they're moving forward is a quote from Richard Fortus saying they're working on a new album, you are armed with quite the weak argument.
And you're preaching to the choir in regards to the "well, they've added this, that or the other song since the last tour" however, the Russian crowd didn't even get Civil War and You're Crazy that those of us in North America did.
The long and the short of it is this; I believe users should be allowed to voice their opinion on the state of GN'R here. If it's negative and they've got an argument to back it up, then great, let's have a discussion. If you, I or anyone else disagrees and has an argument to back it up, now we're cooking.
But to stop by and accuse the user base of doing something they're not? That I won't let fly. To many intelligent folks on this board often well armed with a fantastic line of reasoning to watch them have to put up with that.
And where did I say one should not be allowed to voice their opinion on the state of GN'R?
And, again, I have to disagree with your interpretation of how the term cash grab was meant. Or, am I not allowed to have my own opinion and interpretation of what that comment meant?
As I said to the other poster, that was not directed at the "user base". You are now doing exactly what you accused DCK of, painting with a broad brush.
I realize that it may not have been clear from my initial post that I was reacting and referring to Mikka's post, but I since clarified that in the post you just quoted. So, sorry, but you are incorrect in stating I'm accusing the "user base" as a whole of anything.
Ali
Here's your post:
Ali wrote:One funny thing about these boards is that you find that the people that complain the most about the shows are the ones that aren't even there
Looks to me like not only were you directing it at this whole user base, but most GN'R boards in general.
And of course you're more than welcome to interpret anything anyway you want, but when the set list was being discussed and nothing else, I fail to see how you could interpret it as anything else.
With all due respect, Russ, you are beating a dead horse. I understand that it may not have been clear from my initial post that I was reacting to Mikka's post specifically. I could've and should've been more clear about that. Is it something I've seen before on other boards? Yes, sure. But, in this particular instance, my comment was specifically prompted by Mikka's post.
Again, I understand you may disagree with my interpretation of his comment, but again, that's just the way I took it when I first read it. In reading it over and more of the other posts again, I understand it may have been more specifically about the setlists. Call it a byproduct of hasty thread-reading if you'd like. It happens.
Ali
Re: Moscow, Russia (2 Show Discussion)
Ali wrote:russtcb wrote:Here's your post:
Looks to me like not only were you directing it at this whole user base, but most GN'R boards in general.
And of course you're more than welcome to interpret anything anyway you want, but when the set list was being discussed and nothing else, I fail to see how you could interpret it as anything else.
With all due respect, Russ, you are beating a dead horse. I understand that it may not have been clear from my initial post that I was reacting to Mikka's post specifically. I could've and should've been more clear about that. Is it something I've seen before on other boards? Yes, sure. But, in this particular instance, my comment was specifically prompted by Mikka's post.
Again, I understand you may disagree with my interpretation of his comment, but again, that's just the way I took it when I first read it. In reading it over and more of the other posts again, I understand it may have been more specifically about the setlists. Call it a byproduct of hasty thread-reading if you'd like. It happens.
Ali
I'm not beating a dead horse, I'm making it clear what you said in the first place, not what you tried to go back and change it to.
And I (probably more than anyone) am guilty of hasty thread reading so I totally understand that. I just hope you understand how one could take your initial post to be a slam on the resident posters here and take offense to it.
You're saying you didn't mean it that way that's cool, I have no reason not to believe you. Furthermore, you and I have generally been on the same page more often than not in the past so I would hope you understand that I didn't just decide to attack you, I felt the need to lean in and "stick up" so to speak for the users here.
Russ, to be perfectly frank, the reason why I generalized my post instead of directly quoting Mikka was because I did not want to get into a pissing match or be accused myself of "attacking" a specific member of the board (mine was a comment not on the user themselves, but what I interpreted the statement to mean). And, yes, additionally, it was a comment reminiscent of what I've read in the past, but not the specific prompt for this post in particular.
In retrospect, that only muddied things more and was the wrong choice on my part.
And, yes, I understand completely now that my choice of framing my statement seemed to paint the entire member base here with a broad brush and I do not blame you as the mod here for taking offense. My apologies for that. I do not take any offense to your response whatsoever and respect it completely 
Ali
